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Newest Member: chessboxer (45725)

User Topic: What if...it's rejection?
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, November 5th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know some have joined our forum in a desperate attempt to get help to salvage a marriage broken by our choices. It is a drive and obsession. It's easy to spot. Every post is relationship related with little interest in self analysis. Self flagellation and denigration are de rigueur. 

I've started the countdown with how long they'll remain in our presence and then vanish either because they regain what they feared they lost or they lose. Either way, no further work is needed.

I have been very hard on this and I'm wondering if also very unfair. I've read quite a bit of Helen Fisher, the anthropologist from Rutgers. She has done some amazing work in the relationship field and attacks it from a very scientific perspective. I just came across this.

She found that losing love is an addiction in and of itself. It stimulates the same part of the brain as an addict going through withdrawals.

"The evidence is clear that the passion of romantic love is a goal-oriented motivation state, not a specific emotion," Fisher said, adding that the results showed that romantic rejection is a form of addiction, and those coping with these hurtful feelings are fighting an uphill battle against a strong survival system.

"There's a whole pathway that when you are rejected becomes activated just as it does with nicotine cravings or alcohol," Fisher says. "These areas are associated with physical pain and decision-making. If you've been rejected, you're in pain, craving this person, trying to figure out what's going on.

Fisher says that rejection causes the neurotransmitter dopamine to wash over the brain, triggering feelings of frenzied desperation that can lead to behaviors such as stalking, homicide, and suicide.

"You crave the person who dumped you," She says "You go through withdrawal, you can relapse, and cravings can be sparked months after you think you've gotten over it."

The good news is that though it may take a while, the researchers say they found that the greater the number of days since rejection, the less activity showed up in the brain area associated with attachment. 

I wonder if the reason some BS's aren't able to heal is there is no number of days. Each day with an unremorseful spouse is another rejection. If the spouse themselves has become linked to that feeling of rejection as an anchor emotion no matter how remorseful they may be just their presence triggers that feeling for the BS.  That anchor emotion has to be identified and replaced.  

I know this is not a supported conclusion, but I'm wondering if the pain of break ups can be as much "fantasy" as affairs themselves. I use fantasy in quotes as it never was a term that resonated with me. Whether something is fantasy or reality is rather pointless if the effects are the same thing and feel all too real. 

If affairs trigger chemicals wouldn't rejection do the same thing? The reason this seems so relevant is how emotionally keyed up we are right after d day, both BS's and WS's. Making decisions, choices, life altering at times, at a time least conducive to any rational thought process. 

I hope that given the pain so many are in they can separate necessary work from outcomes but I'm wondering if given this dynamic if it's possible in the early stages.

Please know if you leave or are not ready yet that you can always come back and start the self exploration. The work will need to be done regardless if you want to be healthy. Cheating is never an acceptable choice. 

Rejection is such a primal fear for some that I believe many feelings caused by experiencing it can be very easily confused with love, hate, on both sides, when it's the rejection itself that is the catalyst. Just my thoughts and didn't find anything that confirmed this. 

I hesitated in posting this because I can understand some would think why would a WS feel any rejection from a BS when they are the cause to begin with. Because that's how rejection works. It triggers reactions that don't need to be logical to exist. 

I feel the 180 and filing for divorce, while it's hopefully not done for any reason other than healthy ones, is viewed many times as a "wake up" for the WS. I would love to believe that and maybe for most it is. I fear at times it creates this exact dynamic and while it may feel good to be hung on to and chased it's not for the right reasons. I'd be a lot happier hearing "if that's what you need to do to heal I understand. I created your need to make that choice.  I'm here and will be for you working on myself" than "I'll do anything to fix this no matter what". 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
LisaBrandNew
♀ 30522
Member # 30522
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, November 5th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UO - I like this post. It goes more into the dynamics of relationships - real love and intimacy v. playing out our issues, insecurities, reactions, fears, etc. Very consistent with what I have read in The Dance of Intimacy about the approach-avoidance dance.

I have seen so many before my marriage imploded who felt very little for a partner, but were propelled forward because they felt rejected. Either due to jealousy from a new partner (for those D or S), or due to withdrawal w/in the relationship.

The BS often idealizes a WS, who may not have been all that (like mine at the end), because of the rejection. Wanting them back more than anything - to ease the abandonment issues, low self worth, etc. or due to our brains hard wiring.

WSs often look at their BS with little regard while in the fog. Maybe feeling too secure when they see the BS's pain and pleading. But once the BS is done, well that "avoidance" can trigger "approach" from the WS.

I now realize that a healthy, truly intimate relationship is only possible between healthy individuals. We play out so many neurotic, FOO, brain chemistry fueled stuff in our relationships. Sometimes it seems marriage isn't about love at all.

I know it can be. So I guess our journey is in healing ourselves and loving ourselves so that we are not just "reactive" beings, but conscious, aware and connecting to others from a healthy place.

Good topic for discussion.

[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 10:56 PM, November 5th (Saturday)]


Finally living the life I was meant to live.

Posts: 806 | Registered: Dec 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ 26859
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure if you meant it this way or not, but I see this as what happens when a WS arrives here after being thrown under the bus by the AP.

Everything you describe and ruminate on seems to relate to my situation and experience with how things ended with MOW.

Also, the statement that (ignoring the word "love") losing love is an addiction in and of itself. It stimulates the same part of the brain as an addict going through withdrawals could apply to me. I don't have many close friends because I distance myself from people who I start letting in. I've thought that it is a basic fear of being hurt, and maybe it is just that, but maybe I have been doing it so long that it has created a physiological response that I now crave. Don't know...have to think about that one.

Looking at this in my M, rejection occurred for a long time prior to my A, or at least that is what I perceived or created in my mind. It was a pre-A issue. Was it really there? or did I create this situation because I had become addicted to the chemical/neurological response which I could then continue to recreate over and over?

Don't know if you were intending this direction or not, but that is what I thought about when reading your original post.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6103 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bax, I was intending it for when ever anyone feels rejected. Whether it's a BS, WS after the AP bounces or if the BS does. That reaction is given so much meaning. Sometimes turning it into an obsession for years when it becomes anchored. 

I think it's seldom the person but the chemicals and trauma created by the leaving.

I know there was a poll in General some time ago regarding if this was the first big rejection in their life. A majority, at that time, said yes. 

I know when we're right in the middle of pain and are overwhelmed by the enormity of it it's hard to entertain any thought process but how do I make it through the day and when will this fucking stop hurting. I was still surprised that some didn't think "hmmmmmm" let's look at this a bit.

If someone has had no experience or even way too much experience without developing coping skills rejection is one of the worst things that you can ever experience in your life.

It's someone else telling you you have no value. At least that's the way it's processed. That isn't true at all. Our value is never determined by another...a parent, friend, employer, lover, spouse. NEVER.

I have a twisted relationship with rejection. I craved it. As soon as I fully comprehended how sick my mother was her rejection validated me. Yeah, some people have issues. I have subscriptions.   

This isn't the case for all for sure. Some recognize, appreciate, heal and grow on both sides. Others cling like their anchor is their life-support...drowning. 

Learning how to deal with rejection should be taught early and refreshed often. It will be used far more than the cos rule.  I await PM's telling me not if you're building something...yeah yeah...hated Trig. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
helpemegetoverit
♀ 30242
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very interesting post. I have had many similar thoughts actually, although never could have put them as nicely on 'paper' as you have here. Over the past few months I have reflected a lot on how WS and BS react to infidelity, both on these forums and some real-life conversations. I do think that it is often that what you are writing (how I read it anyway) can be true. As a BS, they sometimes cling to the marriage so quickly after Dday...and it does resonate now that the feeling may be because of not wanting to be rejected. On the other side, a WS can be doing the same, clinging onto their marriage and being 'remorseful' because the rejection of being divorced after they cheated is too much for them to handle. Especially those who have big egos (not self esteem) because it may be rejection of every kind....from their BS to their mutual friends and family.

I do also agree that only 2 healthy people can really reconcile fully. If, in what I said above, a BS is only reconciling for other reasons (that may stem from similiar 'whys' as those of us who cheated ....FOO, etc)....they are not really fully making the choice to reconcile, they are maybe just following the same patterns they have their whole life. Same with a WS who may do the same.

I too crave rejection in some ways due to my upbringing..it's more complicated than that, but this post definitely put down in words some thoughts I have had over the last few months.


Me: WW
Him: BH

"You don't get to choose if you get hurt in this world...but you do have some say in who hurts you."
John Green


Posts: 882 | Registered: Nov 2010
Strongmama
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Member # 33062
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, November 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very interesting! It's spot on too. When STBXWH left me I had never been rejected or dumped in my life? I think I always protected myself from that when I was young and if I ever felt like one of my bf's was going to dump me I'd be sure to beat him to the punch; so this was a total and utter shock. It literally knocked the wind out of me and hurt to the core. In the first few days I was desperate to get him back; couldn't accept that he left...blah blah blah. He was deep in the fog and did not care. So as I started healing and accepting that really why would I want a lying cheater back; he'd been horrible to me for the last year of the M anyways...in the A. Then he saw that he was really losing me and I was moving on so then came him pursuing me; me rejecting him until I decided I had to try to R since he was wantjng it so bad (yeah right:); and then if it didn't work I could move forward with no regrets or what ifs. It's crazy how rejection and desertion messes with our brain. Sorry so long.

Posts: 662 | Registered: Aug 2011
icbtih8
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Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the spouse themselves has become linked to that feeling of rejection as an anchor emotion no matter how remorseful they may be just their presence triggers that feeling for the BS.  That anchor emotion has to be identified and replaced.

Thank you. This gives me much to think about.


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
OnlyLonely
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Member # 14326
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for posting this, I've had many thought on this topic and could never have worded it as nicely as you have.

My M was not good, it started out pretty bad and over the years just got worse. I had one dday under my belt that contained multiple betrayals which were explained as sex only. Was forced to rugsweep and then I went flat.

By the time the next dday hit years later I had endured all sorts of emotional abuse, neglect and out right disrespect. I did not like my FWH and I sure didn't feel any love.

Then I was faced with the unexpected. It was not just a PA but an EA as well and I came face to face with the fog in the firm of a very unremorseful WS.

Suddenly there was the love, I wanted him back so badly and did the equivalent of crawling on broken glass to keep him. I couldn't believe my reaction, I finally had my out and here I was throwing myself at his feet.

But I did come to my senses and realized that I didn't want the crumbs he was offering and left. Suddenly he was the one on his hands and knees. The same person who didn't care if I was dead or alive during the entire A. That too had me confused.

I think this topic is fascinating and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's wondered about it.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
Married: 18 years

Status: In R


Posts: 7555 | Registered: Apr 2007
onlysolution
♀ 23160
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bax, I was intending it for when ever anyone feels rejected. Whether it's a BS, WS after the AP bounces or if the BS does. That reaction is given so much meaning. Sometimes turning it into an obsession for years when it becomes anchored.

Very often, we read about the crazy AP, who shows her 'true colors' when the MM turns his back on her. Rejection hurts everyone and many affair situations had the expectation on the side of the AP of true love and a future. It is no wonder that there is some fairly bizarre behavior on the side of the AP.

I am someone who feels quite sorry for single women who get involved with married men. I am surprised by how our society, especially BW's, want to think of them as another species of women, evil, conniving, without morals, etc. When in reality, a large percent are just people dealing with that 'goal-oriented passion of romantic love'.

I am not saying this to somehow excuse myself and my affair, as I was not single, nor was I ignorant of the dynamics of marriage, the commitment aspect, the ups and downs, or the impact of betrayal. If I could step over that line knowing full well the wide-spread damage and hurt to all involved, how much easier would it be if I were not?

Uncertainone,
Your post has really got me thinking about myself and my inner motivation. What was I looking for and why did I want to reconcile? Rejection was the opposite of what I received and it was not rejection that motivated my desire to reconcile. Was it then attention that I was looking for. To be wanted?

I do also agree that only 2 healthy people can really reconcile fully.

I don't really like this statement. I also do not really agree with the term of 'broken'. It sound to much like there are two states of being, broken and fixed, or unhealthy and healthy. We are all a mixture of these states and a life-long project. We will go up and down or back and forth on these spectrums all our lives.

I cannot look back on my affair and the period after and consider myself 'broken'. In some ways, it was a way of really seeing myself clearly and facing up to some issues within myself.

I use fantasy in quotes as it never was a term that resonated with me. Whether something is fantasy or reality is rather pointless if the effects are the same thing and feel all too real.

I agree with this. I have trouble when people talk about the fantasy of an affair as if the feelings themselves are fantasy. I do agree that the fantasy part is that a new relationship will fix your life, make commitment easy, and make all your problems a part of the past. And, as you have stated here, that BS's or WS's can often become attached to a 'fantasy' after Dday. Emotions totally paint each of our visions of reality.

I wonder if the reason some BS's aren't able to heal is there is no number of days. Each day with an unremorseful spouse is another rejection.

This is a good point here.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
stilllovingher
♂ 29959
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am surprised by how our society, especially BW's, want to think of them as another species of women, evil, conniving, without morals, etc.

Because it is evil, conniving, and without morals. It's no secret.

AFA the original post, aren't all emotions one chemical response or another. And with only so many chemicals to work with, why are we surprised to learn that rejection shares some of the same chemicals as love? Rejection and love is so closely related anyway.

I just think this is a no brainer. Unfortunately my brain is a bit numb right now so I'm having trouble explaining myself.



The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

emotions one chemical response or another

That's not what the original post said.


"The evidence is clear that the passion of romantic love is a goal-oriented motivation state, not a specific emotion," Fisher said, adding that the results showed that romantic rejection is a form of addiction, and those coping with these hurtful feelings are fighting an uphill battle against a strong survival system.

I think it's a far more complicated thing than a simple emotion. That's one of the reason break-up's, divorce, infidelity has whole sections of bookstores dedicated.

Very complex...very painful to some.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SisterMilkshake
♀ 30024
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am someone who feels quite sorry for single women who get involved with married men.

UO ~ as I am dealing with a stalking OW who was dumped in 2004 and still continues to try to contact my FWH I will be thinking about this and doing some reading on this.

She has just attempted to contact FWH 2 times about a week and half ago after 19 months of NC. FWH never officially "broke up" with her, just eased himself out of the situation. Stopped taking her calls, then changed cell #, never went to places they went, etc. OW has been after him ever since. I didn't find out about the affair until 2010 (you can read my profile), and we never sent a NC letter as we thought we'ld let sleeping dogs lie.

But with the new attempt at contact we want to send a NC letter. Now I am concerned after reading this post. I wanted my FWH to "break up" with her in the NC letter and to tell her NC. Is she going to "crave" him more if she gets a letter like that?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:58 PM, November 8th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
stilllovingher
♂ 29959
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, there was definitely talk of neurotransmitters as well and that's what I latched onto.
I won't argue against the complexity of it all, it's most certainly is.

The author mentioned being washed in dopamine after rejection as well as "goal oriented". Dopamine is responsible in large part for pleasure and reward as well as to provide the "drive" to achieve those.

So perhaps when we are rejected by those we love, that dopamine rush actually gives us that "moment of clarity" to do what we need to do to get our "reward" back. (goal oriented)
You mentioned that "wake up call" WS get from the 180, that seems to fit real nice here...rejection=dope rush=drive. Is that really a bad thing? I guess it would be if we are talking about the AP here.
I know it's more complex than this.
I know it's a painful process.
I just get excited talking about neurotransmitters


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
♂ 29959
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

as I am dealing with a stalking OW who was dumped in 2004 and still continues to try to contact my FWH

Dopamine deficiency is linked to schizophrenia, maybe she needs some AD's.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just get excited talking about neurotransmitters

Doesn't everyone?

Sister, maybe but what's important is his boundaries and his actions. She'll have to face the consequences for those.

I know that Helen Fisher referenced it with romantic love. I don't think love has to be involved at all to have this reaction triggered.

That's why I've never been a fan of the statement "the greater the anger and pain the more they loved the WS". In most cases yes. Not in all. Sometimes it's truly the rejection that's the catalyst for the anger, pain, obsession... As anyone that's ever been involved with an NPD individual knows all too well.

Intensity doesn't equate to love at all.

This may not fit for some at all. I offered it as something to think about. I think sometime pain that's felt at the end of a relationship somehow gives much more merit to the one that left, the relationship, or the degree we loved only to find with distance and perspective it was far more the being left that hurt.

How many "WTF was I thinking" have some felt with time, healing and plenty of distance when y'all look at old break ups?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
stilllovingher
♂ 29959
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As anyone that's ever been involved with an NPD individual knows all too well.

I tend not to include NPDs in most of my thoughts. They really are a rare breed and it bugs me that the title is tossed around so much here.
Not sayin yours is not one, but, you know...not every "POS self centered ass" is one.
Anyway, I'm trying to think about this. Like I said, my brain is awash in so many NTs it needs a rubber duckie!

Do you think'the addiction of rejection' is why some people sabotage their own relationships?
I dont really understand what she was getting at when she said rejection was a form of addiction. Seems like she meant that the partner(or the feelings caused by the partner) was the addiction. And the rejection sparked a panic in the brain at the thought of losing that partner.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
trytoforgive
♀ 27330
Member # 27330
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, November 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's why I've never been a fan of the statement "the greater the anger and pain the more they loved the WS". In most cases yes. Not in all. Sometimes it's truly the rejection that's the catalyst for the anger, pain, obsession... As anyone that's ever been involved with an NPD individual knows all too well.

Son of a bitch... I think you just changed my life... Shit!!


Me- W 38
Him- H 40
Long time lurker...Sometimes poster...
DDay 8/14/2009

DD 15
DS 10


Posts: 452 | Registered: Jan 2010
SisterMilkshake
♀ 30024
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, November 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She'll have to face the consequences for those.
I couldn't care less what her consequences are.

My concern is will our NC letter and my FWH's written rejection of OW send her over the edge and send her to bunny boiler level? Will she amp up her stalking/contact attempts because now that FWH rejects her she now "craves" him more? I know there is no way you can know that, I am just now more concerned after reading this post.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:46 AM, November 9th (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, November 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SLH, I totally get what she said and I've seen it many times. The rejection is the addiction. It's what you focus on. Why wasn't I enough, what did I not have someone else did, I can't stand the thought of them with someone else.

Think about those statements and what it represents. Love? Not at all. When you love someone you want them to be happy. You don't stalk them, harass them, attack them, hurt them. Even if they hurt you.

What do you think that horrible betrayal triggers for some. The shootings sometimes in front of children, beatings, violence. Do you think that's love and a true reflection of it? Of course not.

It's a life altering driving force for some people to deal with the horrible rejection and the feelings that brings. Those behaviors are written about here on this site connected with infidelity but those behaviors are also present in some break ups and divorces that don't have anything to do with infidelity.

That's another reason I've questioned the statement that's on this site so often. I wish they just left. In some situations the results would have been close to the same.

We had a friend who didn't give two shits about his wife. Treated her with complete disrespect and neglect. She begged for years for him to get help with her. He refused. She left. Not for anyone else. She still isn't seeing anyone else. He's obsessed. Follows her, stalks her, calls her insessently. She's his entire focus. Is that love?!! Fuck no. He's hurt. Period.

He even said to me when I confronted him that he wished she left for someone else. That's the one thing an affair can do. If someone cheats it's never about the BS. If someone comes home and says I want out it's absolutely about the spouse, or a good part of it is.

Affairs ARE NEVER about the BS. That part is very true. There is no reason, however not to take inventory and identify things you'd change regardless of what letter combination you represent.

Yes, NPD is thrown around on here a bit but consider the odds. Truly diagnosable NPD affects about 3% of the general population. Infidelity affects millions. 33,000 are registered member here and I I recall correctly about 6,000 may be active members...I may be hugely off here, but there is no reason not to believe that there could be a fair amount of spouses of those lovely people represented here and still be far under those statistics.

Either way, people with very NPD traits exist all around us and without addressing them the results and damage are pretty fucking close.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
stilllovingher
♂ 29959
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, November 9th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks UO,
That makes more sense now.
Those first two paragraphs cleared it up.

NPD points....fair enough.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
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