I liked it, and got a lot out of it. It actually explained a lot to me about myself.
Why I had several of the attitudes and weaknesses I had.
Others didn't like it, or the message, so much.
[This message edited by TrustedHer at 12:30 PM, July 16th (Monday)]
Don't think I'll be in the latter category as I'm currently on my own little "whatever it takes to change" crusade.
[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 3:12 PM, July 16th (Monday)]
It's actually pretty awesome.
I of course want my WS to work on his dishonesty, passiveness, lack of ability to say no (to anyone but me), his porn addiction and unspoken expectations for when he does something nice - it has strings attached but I often don't know what they are and he feels like a victim.
The part of the book that scares me is that it tells men that they can demand sex, threaten to leave if they don't get it, be selfish, etc. As someone recovering from his cheating and lying as well as the effects of a giant porn addiction...I feel a lot of pressure to not take care of my own emotional needs because he is being told that its okay to expect me to give him what he wants no matter how I'm feeling.
There is a NMMNG forum and I have read some of it. Most of the men over there sound abusive and selfish. I almost cry when I read some of the threads about how wives don't give them the sex they want. . . the men sound emotionally abusive and I don't know how the women survive. (Maybe thats why so many of the men are divorcing their wives at the end of long threads). They are calling their wives all kinds of names that sound unloving, uncaring, and cold. It seems that those "nice guys" are not nice AT ALL.
It actually helped me quite a bit when I was struggling with false R to make me realize that I didn't have to put up with her insane and abusive behavior.
It seems that those "nice guys" are not nice AT ALL.
As for sex, I tried for years to be a better husband in hopes of being rewarded with sex. I did things for stbx, I indulged her, I ignored my needs and wants. really, when sex between us dropped to once a month or less I should have seen thta as a sign that she was no longer in love with me, and if we were not able to work out our (her) issues, then I should have left the M back then. I think thta point is that is sex is important to one of the partners it should be a part of the M, not just something one partner does as a reward or to apease the other.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:48 AM, July 28th (Monday)]
"Look, as sentient meat, however illusory our identities are, we craft those identities by making value judgments. Everybody judges, all the time. Now, you got a problem with that, you’re living wrong."
My take is that this book is excellent advice for someone trying to figure themselves out and why they feel so desperately unhappy and unfulfilled on the inside most of the time.
The advice is more or less sound:
-It's no one's job to meet your needs but your own. People can help but it's not their responsibility.
-Your unhappiness is your own fault. It's not the fault of your parents, girlfriends, wife, or women in general.
-Be authentic; stop being amorphous in an attempt to get others to like you. People will either accept who you are or they won't.
-Be honest with yourself and the people you surround yourself with. Don't lie to save face or cover your mistakes.
However, I'd also tell anyone looking to read this to throw all of the causation analysis narrative out of the window.
I mean it- all the parts that talk about the changing from an agrarian society to an industrialized one, the feminism movement, etc., ignore all of that. First off, I don't really buy those as root causes, and second of all, even if they were the root cause of these changes (which again, I don't buy), it doesn't matter one iota as far as making personal changes...it just provides a cheap, easy, scapegoat-ey narrative for the misogynistic and angry to cling to while absorbing the more sound advice contained within.
I can sort of get why some might find this book selfish and woman-hating. I don't really think it is, but in the hands of someone who's already of that mindset the information and advice could definitely be twisted to suit their ends. I'm talking about men who seek out books like this when their only central goal is to appear confident and attractive as opposed to just 'being myself' and having those qualities as a result. The kind of men who seek out websites on 'game' and how to manipulate and pick up women.
I think this book has been sort of 'lumped in' with the "Men's Movement" , which is kind of a shame because when taken by itself (and disregarding the silly parts) it offers really practical advice for 'nice guys' who are actually looking to become authentic and break the cycle.
I think you did a great summary of the book, good job!
That aspect, if it happens, is great....but it's not the reason for making these changes. It's like the 180; if you're paying attention to the other person while doing it, then you're probably doing it wrong.
For me, the most eye opening idea what that my wants and needs actually mattered, and I didn't have to try to fit them into my wife's or anyone else's view of what they should be.
The book as a whole is a brilliant antidote to codependency IMO.
After poking around on some Men's forums, though, some guys take it too far, i.e. "I should never do anything I don't want to" or ""My wife should cater to my wants/needs"
Breaking the pattern of being a "nice guy" doesn't mean you stop helping with the dishes or laundry, bro.