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Newest Member: Mercedes66 (46046)

User Topic: t/j boundaries and self respect
EmotionalFool
♀ 37362
Member # 37362
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Continuing the topic as its very interesting discussion and its giving me a lot of food for thought. Opening it for everybody.
It's interesting to me the posts that state that no one can me another feel worthless and destroy their self respect yet in the same breath claim that they need to take disrespect from their spouse because their actions killed them.
Uh, both those statements can't be true, now can they. If another's words or actions have no impact or cause pain and destruction unless they're allowed to and internalized then this site wouldn't need to exist as BS's could simply just not internalize affairs and continue on without a hitch.

It’s a very gray area. Lets take an example of organ donation.

1) Your kid is not well and you need to donate the organ.
2) Your kid is drug addict, doenst have money and asks you to donate an organ to get money
3) Doctor steals an organ from you.
4) Your kids are hungry and you donate an organ to get money
5) You are a drug addict and you sell an organ to get money
6) Your organ is not working and if you don’t remove it will cause further health hazards to you.

The action is same. You will be cut and an organ will be removed. But depending on the situation “Right”, “Wrong”, “ethical”, “unethical”, “acceptable” and “unacceptable” will vary. This is exactly why I find boundaries tricky. And I have such a hard time with it.

I can have a very rigid boundary “No physical invasion” but will it serve me in every scenario?

In this example very clearly a physical boundary is invaded. But depending on the situation, your emotional, spiritual and mental boundaries are invaded too. Its never acceptable to accept the disrespect. But doenst the situation matter at all?

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 6:43 AM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
AnneOther
♀ 38368
Member # 38368
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But depending on the situation, your emotional, spiritual and mental boundaries are invaded too. Its never acceptable to accept the disrespect. But doenst the situation matter at all?

I suppose the only time I am willing to accept disrespect is from someone in some kind of extreme crisis, and even then I would need to know it’s a temporary thing, that they are only acting like this because they’re not themselves at the moment.
I think I hold myself to much the same standards too. I have flipped out and lashed out at those around me, and been very disrespectful towards them, but when I came back down to earth (matter of a couple of hours), I apologized profusely, explained the shitty situation I was in, and the stress I was going through at that moment and took steps to make sure it was a one-time thing, and not something I would repeat.

So yes, if someone’s loved one has just died or they have just been diagnosed with some terrible illness (or whatever dramatic life altering event) then of course I move my own boundaries and make allowances for any kind of lashing out behavior I may encounter with them. But – I don’t dump my boundaries completely, more just adjust them temporarily to allow for their fragile state.

I guess the difficult question is how long for, and how far I would adjust my boundaries, and I have no hard and fast answer for that as every situation where I have encountered “moving my own goalposts” is different.


Posts: 72 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: U.K.
badchoice
♂ 35566
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks for bring this up without the stop sign. I was going to post a reply to the OP, but not sure if I can post on s stop sign since I am a MH.

Anyway, I do not think boundaries are fluid or grey. I think a boundary is a boundary. Boundaries might change over time as a person changes, but that has to be the choice of the person themselves. To say that I accept disrespect from a BS because of what I did to them, thus crossing my boundary is not healthy IMHO.

In my case my BS hit me a couple of times, and also called me names, all in fits of anger after Dday. At the time these things happened, my boundaries were non-existent, and I thought that if she just called me enough names, or hit me enough times, she would get over the anger phase. Each time she hit me, she came back an apologized, and felt shame because it crossed her boundary.

Anyway, after a few months my boundaries got stronger, and laid down some rules of things that she could not say to me, because they hurt too much. She was happy that I set boundaries, and even though she crossed that line one or two more times, each time she apologized for it. If she hadn't apologized then I would have looked at those things as potential deal-breakers.

I think that if you are in a relationship, you want to respect boundaries of each other. If not accepting disrespectful language is a boundary, then it should break your boundary to do it to your partner. Even if one person is angry, and out of control, I still think a boundary is a boundary. I think the idea of a moving boundary is what gets a lot of WS on the slippery slope in the first place.

Now it is up to each person in a relationship if crossing a boundary is a deal breaker, BS and WS. I think the concept of, 'well the WS hurt the BS, so they should accept their anger at all cost' is totally wrong. I personally didn't like it when my BS called me names, slapped me, etc, but letting her do that was in retrospect unhealthy, but in of itself not a deal breaker for me at the time. Now, it would be.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
rachelc
♀ 30314
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

in of itself not a deal breaker for me at the time. Now, it would be.

I'm glad someone started this thread as well because I can't post with the stop sign as I am also a MH...

I think as a BS we are so frozen and unsure of ourselves we don't know what/if we should expect. I Can't believe I put up with some of the stuff I did...

yet, I think disrespect is how you interpret it. If my fWH called me a whore I would say to myself, if that's what he needs to feel better about himself, ok. I was a whore for one afternoon. That's it. I don't identify myself as that and if he thought of me as that after one sexual encounter, then I would probably leave. But, I wouldn't feel disrespected, I would feel that he associated me with that identity and that's not who I am. Hard to be with someone who thinks that of you but possible to not accept that identity.. if that makes any sense. For the record, he hasn't called me that but he did call me a fucking bitch the day i confessed. Did not bother me.
I just told him I had slept with two guys and other than hitting me, I would take anything he threw at me during that time.

I've called my husband a coward. Disrespectful, yes. But it's a word that I needed to convey to him about my feelings of the importance of honesty.

[This message edited by rachelc at 9:40 AM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5778 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
tired girl
♀ 28053
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still think a boundary is a boundary. I think the idea of a moving boundary is what gets a lot of WS on the slippery slope in the first place.

This right here. WS's have to learn what boundaries are. And constantly moving them, whether it is for your spouse or whoever, is not learning how to have good ones.

then I would probably leave. But, I wouldn't feel disrespected, I would feel that he associated me with that identity and that's not who I am. Hard to be with someone who thinks that of you but possible to not accept that identity

This was it in a nutshell for me. I wanted to know if that was what he truly thought. If he did, well we had bigger problems than what I did, as I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life with someone who felt that way. I didn't feel that way about myself. I did feel that he had a right to however he felt. I just needed to know.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5247 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its never acceptable to accept the disrespect. But doenst the situation matter at all?

No. Listen, if we had our boundaries solid we wouldn't be posting in this forum regardless of situation. Where's the grey area there? No matter what we felt about our marriage or how our spouse treated us we'd no accept the disrespect from ourselves.

You can argue that til the sun goes down using as many metaphors or parallels as you want and that won't change.

It may also mean that some of the marriages wouldn't have survived because we would have left.

You know when people talk about what needs to happen to save the marriage after we blew it the fuck up there might also be some thoughts about if it even should be.

I have posted on this site many times, I think true reconciliation...healthy and safe for both partners is rare. While the two people can go on to healthy and safe futures the disrespect of an affair can very much poison the ground. Like my SO mentioned when we were talking about this, the equivalent of the Roman's salting the fields in Carthage. The individuals purified but the ground cursed.

I know, in my case, it wasn't just the level of disrespect I had toward my ex and myself but the fact he accepted it that killed our chances. If he'll accept that in his face he is not someone I could ever trust again.

Some may view that odd, sick, whatever. Hell, most probably do but that's how it was with my situation.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
wifehad5
♂ 15162
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know when people talk about what needs to happen to save the marriage after we blew it the fuck up there might also be some thoughts about if it even should be.

From my experience with this site, that is a very valid question that is almost always asked. Do people still try to save marriages that the rest of us think are unhealthy? Yes. Does that fact get ignored? Not that I've seen.

I have posted on this site many times, I think true reconciliation...healthy and safe for both partners is rare. While the two people can go on to healthy and safe futures the disrespect of an affair can very much poison the ground. Like my SO mentioned when we were talking about this, the equivalent of the Roman's salting the fields in Carthage. The individuals purified but the ground cursed.

That's a nice theory that your SO has, and it may be the case for some people. I have been blessed to meet many people who run counter to this


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From my experience with this site, that is a very valid question that is almost always asked

I'm glad to hear that, wife. I haven't seen that as much as some hanging on in almost a panic to something and someone that is toxic.

I love happy endings and am glad of the examples we have from members here that have both reconciled and divorced.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
tired girl
♀ 28053
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From my experience with this site, that is a very valid question that is almost always asked
.

I am going to disagree with this. What I see asked is if the WS can get healthy.

What needs to happen is the WS getting healthy, the BS needs to get healthy and the marriage needs to get healthy. Very rarely do I see all three worked on and this happen. Maybe two out of three but rarely all three.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5247 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can have a very rigid boundary “No physical invasion” but will it serve me in every scenario?

EF, I understand what your asking and the answer I believe is not every scenario has to do with boundaries. In the early stages of this whole Wayward process and learning new things/ways of living you definitely thrash about trying to find your way. For me it was easier to apologize if someone ran into my boundary that shouldn't have than apologize to my wife that I had allowed my boundary to be crossed, knowingly or otherwise. Once I became aware I am now responsible to keep my boundaries regardless.

If my kid needs a kidney that is not a scenario that should be considered an invasion.

If someone needs CPR and I am the only one who knows how to do it and it is a female, again that is not a scenario that should be considered a boundary issue.

So again, for me and I would rather apologize to someone for banging their head into my boundary than go to my wife that I allowed it cuz well it seemed like a grey area. KWIM?

[This message edited by hardlessons at 12:16 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
badchoice
♂ 35566
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting thread. Great topic.

I can have a very rigid boundary “No physical invasion” but will it serve me in every scenario?

If my kid needs a kidney that is not a scenario that should be considered an invasion.

Maybe part of setting boundaries is learning what a real and healthy boundary is.

Rigid boundaries are great, but they have to make sense. Boundaries I set after Dday, and before BS and I separated may or may not still apply.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boundaries I set after Dday, and before BS and I separated may or may not still apply.

I hear what you are saying but boundaries should be based on you for you. Not whether you are married, separated or single.. IMO Your the only one who can set them.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
badchoice
♂ 35566
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear what you are saying but boundaries should be based on you for you. Not whether you are married, separated or single.. IMO Your the only one who can set them.

Agree, but at the time I was a pretty unhealthy person, so I had to start with some obvious boundaries like, I will not flirt with women. Something that as a married man, I should not have to had said out loud to my BS or myself, but that was how low I was starting from.

Also, that boundary was pretty dis-functional in it's origin. A healthy boundary, IMHO, would have been I will respect and honor my wife, wife being able to be subbed for SO if I was single. Does that make sense?


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A healthy boundary, IMHO, would have been I will respect and honor my wife, wife being able to be subbed for SO if I was single. Does that make sense

Choosing to respect your wife/SO/GF is not a boundary its a choice of how you are going to treat others.

A boundary is for you, by you and is there to protect you. What/how you choose to do/treat other people is just that, a choice. Not a boundary.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
badchoice
♂ 35566
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, so then as I learn and get used to setting boundaries, if I follow that, my boundary should be I will respect and honor myself. I really am trying to figure this out. I started this journey with no boundaries to speak of.

Cheating did and would violate that since the first person I didn't respect in that situation was myself, many others followed, the the first person inline was me. Always will be.

Unfortunately I had no boundaries in plAce, and didn't honor myself enough at the time.

Am I getting closer here?


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Badchoice, you couldn't have said it any better. If I knew how to put that Higgins from Magnum PI clapping gif I would.

I didn't have any either when I started this and didn't get the concept till I read EA by Nuemann really. But once I caught the core concept that you just stated I was good to go!


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
uncertainone
♀ 28108
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j

That's Higgins from Magnum PI???

End t/j


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UO now I understand your tag line. You post something and we all go "What.......... What?"


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
5454real
♂ 37455
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j

Nope, thought I recognized the scene when I first saw HUFI post it, It's Orson Welles.

t/j

ETA http://images.wikia.com/glee/images/3/38/Orson-welles-clapping.gif

[This message edited by 5454real at 3:59 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 21(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3315 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
hardlessons
♂ 35025
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What!! What? Damn, I always thought it was Higgins!! Does this mean I'm not gonna get the Ferrari either....


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Topic Posts: 24
Pages: 1 · 2

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