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Things with WS... escalating?

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cmego posted 4/16/2013 14:56 PM

OK, wise me figure this out.

Since Christmas, things with WS seem to be shifting.

It has been a rough month or so now with him requesting money, me refusing, him then blackmailing me out of spousal support he has previously agreed to via our Separation Agreement. THEN the little bombshell where his bf cheated on him, where he was crying on my sofa asking me to hug him (I refused) because he wishes he had treated me better.

Last week, he informed me that the reason he didn't give me the paperwork that he promised (trying to finalize the details of health insurance/ D) was because he spent the day in the ER with chest pain. I responded "OK". I found out later, he didn't tell anyone else (his family) about this little episode.

Then he asked if he could bring his boyfriend to our son's soccer game, I responded. "No. Inappropriate." I'm just not ready for my kids to be the "gay guys kids....". People are going to talk, even worse than has already started. I've asked my good friend (also on the soccer team) and she said, "yes, it is going to be really weird"). In his world, fine...he can deal with it. But, my kids are still somewhat protected here with me (and live with me 90%). We discuss their Dad is gay and has a boyfriend, we discuss that not everyone is going to be OK with their relationship. But, he is 2 hours away and not in their daily lives. I don't see where we need to push this yet, and therapists agree. Kids are having a rough enough transition with the D. Also having to deal with gay Dad, but to then start with the teasing and uncomfortable questions from their friends? Just not ready, especially as unstable as my dd is right now. Still monkeying with her meds to see if we can stabilize the OCD/ADHD/anxiety. There is no NEED to push the boyfriend into the kids daily life. When the kids are with WS, nothing I can do...he can make whatever decisions he wants regarding the bf/kids.

Today, WS asks if he can take the kids and the boyfriend on a trip together. I said, "I don't think it is appropriate, but you do whatever you want. " (Plus, we do have a morality claus in our PSA. I have told him I will lift in in the divorce decree, but for now, it stands.)

(As a reminder...just a few weeks ago WS discovered the boyfriend cheated on him. )

Now, it is back to the name calling and being condescending. "You are being ridiculous", "simmer down", "you are so difficult".

I asked my fSIL (her H is my WS's brother) if I was being ridiculous, and she said, "It is like he can't let go of wanting your friendship. He keeps turning to you for friendship and/or support".

We are 3 years post d-day, almost 2.5 from S. I just don't understand why things are shifting now? It almost feels like the more I let go, the more he tries to hang on, seeking something from me. Seeking my approval? Friendship? Why the hell would it matter? He even texted me this week asking about a recipe I used to make for him. My response? "Google it."

Has anyone else dealt with this? I keep feeling like....something is going to happen.

Amazonia posted 4/16/2013 15:05 PM

Well, he's NPD, so there's an element of control. The more you assert your independence, the more he will push back and try to manipulate you.

EvenKeel posted 4/16/2013 15:13 PM

Has anyone else dealt with this? I keep feeling like....something is going to happen.

I live my life waiting for whatever wacko thing will happen next. I am there with ya!

IDK if I would lift the mortality clause. He is already asking to bring his cheating partner to the games.....this will just escalate to other stuff as time goes by (and pending who he is with).

That said....I have disclaimers in my agreement but EX does whatever he wants to do anyway.

No overnights with non-relatives while he has the kiddos
moved his GF and her DS in

No drinking while he has the kiddos
Not only drinks but takes them along to the VFW.

Give me phone/address when on vacation
lies about destination and takes them 4 hours in the opposite direction
(all while saying 'It is none of your mom's business what I do with you on MYYY time')

I am sorry - I don't remember how old your DS is? Age has been a saving grace for me with his crazy.

Must Survive posted 4/16/2013 15:25 PM

I would have a problem with him continuing to have a bf around that cheats. How long will their relationship last. Not good for the kids to be around someone who is not "committed" to them. Is he trying to be a cute happy family with bf?

It seems like its all about him, not how best to protect the kids from more hurt.

cmego posted 4/16/2013 16:47 PM

Yeah...he just told me, "I'm happier than I've ever been...why can't you just be happy for me?"

He truly does not see that I don't care. I just want what is best for the kids.

My son is 7, dd almost 10.

I emailed him and told him ^^^^. I don't care, just do what is right for the kids and leave me alone.

I'm beginning to think that when his "soul mate" cheated on him...I think it pushed him over the edge. For some reason, I"m getting the brunt.

hurtinky posted 4/16/2013 19:20 PM

OMG. He's crazy. He's happier than he's ever been, and his bf just cheated? Yeah, right.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Or rather, him.

I will never understand these people who can't seem to bear having a relationship with their children separate from whoever they are fucking at any particular moment. Clearly, his relationship with the cheating bf means more to him than his relationship with the children, and their care and security. Ugh.

Amazonia posted 4/16/2013 19:45 PM

He probably feels out of control of his own life, with the bf's cheating, which leads him to squeeze you even harder, trying to feel in control of something/someone (you)

caregiver9000 posted 4/17/2013 20:51 PM

I am going to advocate, very very strongly that you go completely DARK and institute NO CONTACT. NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT. Not the softer version with the except kids and finances part. You are far enough out that the discussions about finances are over and all kid discussions are currently
Him, what do you think about blah blah?
You, answer.
Him, but WHY.....
You, answer.
Him, YOU ARE SO MEAN. And then he does whatever he intended all along.

Why have that conversation?

When he asks for a recipe, don't refer him to Google. That is ATTENTION. Give him crickets.

When he asks your opinion, IGNORE. If you give your opinion and he uses that to beat you up... and to frustrate you and make you angry? Why give him that ammunition?

I don't know. I could be completely off base because you have been co-parenting. You have been communicating. He's been "friendly." Y'all have had a plan for integrating the bf into the lives of the children. But it seems to not be working so good? If that is the case, then make a change. One of those, if it's broke then fix it moments.

I don't like how much head space he has.


evict that lousy dude.

torn2bits posted 4/17/2013 21:25 PM

I have to agree with caregiver. He is grasping on so tight to you. Go NC with him.

He sounds like he definitely is wigging out and that's NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

He can go tell his therapist the drama of his cheating boyfriend or find another friend to tell.

Don't engage conversation with him. Just go back to text/email...let the phone go to voicemail. At pickup/dropoff just go right back to your car/house and avoid him like crazy.

I also find that the closer we are getting to the D, the stronger my WH is grasping on.

cmego posted 4/17/2013 21:51 PM

A friend pointed out to me that WS is trying to "justify" his relationship with the cheating boyfriend. FORCING him in everywhere in a desperate attempt to be secure in the relationship (since the boyfriend cheated, and WS is now...probably for the first time EVER, not in control of the relationship. He has always been the cheater, the controller). I had to go back and recall what it was like after learning WS cheated, and how I felt, and how desperate we were to make it work. We were, in the beginning, desperate to make it work. Lots of HB. Therapy, tears, clinging to each other. My insecurity flaring.

I'm not excusing the behavior, I'm just struggling to understand a little so I can get AHEAD of the behavior. I still have to divorce this man. I need to find a way to stay one step ahead until the D is final.

I had to email him again last night to leave me alone. I didn't hear anything from him today, and my SIL and I talked this afternoon and she asked if I had heard from him. I said, "No.". She said, "I told him last night that he needs to leave you alone. You need space."

I've recognized for a very long time that WS never "listened" to me. My opinion, suggestion, ideas, never mattered. HE is too emotionally invested in me and my approval to actually listen.

The moment someone else tells him to leave me alone...he does. It makes no sense to me, but I am thankful and relieved that HIS family is stepping up and helping me.

One of the OLD guys I went out with and I had a very interesting discussion. We were discussing co-parenting and how they were handling it. He mentioned that their MC suggested they look at co-parenting/divorce as "birth, death and resurrection." Birth=the marriage. Death=divorce. Resurrection=the new co-parenting relationship.

WS and I definitely want different things in the resurrection part of our relationship. I am hoping that my BIL&SIL (his brother and wife) and going to help him see that what he wants (my friendship and approval) are not realistic.

SIL told me a story that she invited WS to go to Disney this past Christmas. WS said, "Well, let me call cmego and see if we can all go together. I couldn't imagine going without her!" SIL said, "I told him...ummm....that is crazy, WS."

I have a WS that refuses to understand why I will not be his friend. He seems desperate for my approval and not interested in letting this go. I'm struggling to understand. I am at the point of rude/ignoring him. Today has been calmer, and I'm thankful. He is taking emotional energy to handle, and I don't like it.

Kajem posted 4/17/2013 22:16 PM

You are his touchstone, his anchor, his port in a storm. When his life is swirling out of control he NEEDS to touch base with you.

He is out of control, and he NEEDS you. He hasn't broken that connection to you, nor has he transferred it to his BF. He may be realizing that his connection to BF doesn't exist.

Don't expect him to ever go completely away... When he is involved and in control again.. he will lessen his contact with you. But when he is out of control and maybe even bored.. expect him to contact you.

You can't stop him from contacting you... so how are you going to handle him contacting you?



Amazonia posted 4/18/2013 08:23 AM

I have a WS that refuses to understand why I will not be his friend. He seems desperate for my approval and not interested in letting this go.

Gently here, but I think you're giving him mixed signals. When you do things like sit down and help him work out a budget, or agree to bend the rules (agreement) for him, or lend him money, etc., you are reinforcing for him that you two are friends, and that you are there to help him.

I agree with the hard NC.

Someone posted recently about a study that sporadic positive reinforcement is a stronger motivator than consistent positive reinforcement - so any kibble you throw his way at this point just makes him think he deserves it all the more. Any. Even if it's in the interest of keeping the peace.

cmego posted 4/18/2013 13:09 PM

Yeah, Ama...but I haven't done anything like that in almost 5 months. The last time he asked, I said no. I made a few suggestions in an off-hand comment kinda way, but refused to do any hand-holding (about the budget). It was the two of us doing a kid transfer...not me sitting down to "help him". I did agree to go to dinner a few weeks ago, but kids present.

I am strict NC right now. Anything he sends (two emails today alone....) are answered with "OK".

I have my IC on Monday...I am hoping she can shed some light on this behavior.

When I attempt to be friendly toward him (for the sake of the kids.....) he takes that as an open invitation to my friendship. I clearly told him the other night that the ONLY reason I am polite to him is for the sake of the children. He is to I can't be any clearer.

hurtinky posted 4/18/2013 13:31 PM

It almost sounds like he wants you to mother him.

caregiver9000 posted 4/18/2013 16:08 PM

I did agree to go to dinner a few weeks ago, but kids present.

I am strict NC right now. Anything he sends (two emails today alone....) are answered with "OK".

What do we tell newbies who want to go to dinner with the stbx and the kids? You are no longer a family. You don't do that while the boundaries are not clear (ie. with young kids because it is confusing, with a WS who thinks you can be friends)

Read what you typed and see the contradiction???

And OK, is not necessary. OK is a kibble. Unless there is a need to contradict or restate a court order OK is unnecessary. If I get an unwanted text that says it is raining- I don't have to say OK...

What if you treat him like a OLD guy you don't want to encourage? What would you do with a "creeper" who texted unnecessarily or invited you to dinner with your kids as chaperones?

I am not sure what YOU want with your WS. You still call him WS... If you want a friendly relationship with occasional dinners and him coming to you for advice then the advice changes.

But "escalating" implies unwanted and harmful or at least hurtful behaviors. The word "blackmail" is not a friendly behavior.

I am confused....

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 4:09 PM, April 18th (Thursday)]

Amazonia posted 4/18/2013 16:28 PM

Being friendly for the sake of the kids? C, you need to be civil for the sake of the kids. If you're friendly, it's way too easy for him to assume you are okay with being friends. Even I'm getting mixed signals on that one

cmego posted 4/18/2013 17:51 PM

No, I did the dinner when things seemed OK a few weeks ago. It was before the blackmail started. It was the first "family time" since Christmas, and it was nothing but civil...not friendly. I wouldn't do it now at all.

I have to respond "OK" because it is kid related to soccer/pickups/taxes.

I'm not friendly, I'm civil. If he is "well behaved", I am civil to him. I don't engage him, but I respond to a question if he asks. I NEVER contact him unless it is kid/finances. He will do things like ask me to play Words With Friends with him...I decline. He asks how my week is going, I don't respond. If he asks how the kids are...I respond. I am civil to him, I NEVER ask him how he is doing.

If he is being really difficult, I am basically a bitch. I won't look at him when he picks up the kids (I go to my room) and do not speak to him.

I do try my best to take the high road so my children are not in the middle. I have a soccer game on Sunday, a 4th grade play next week, and soccer for the next foreseeable future to get through. I DO NOT want my children to have to decide who to sit with, have to look two different places for us, etc. We will both attend functions for our children, I would never ask him to NOT attend. *I* wouldn't want to be "banned" from a kid function, so I won't do that to him.

Last soccer game, he sat in a chair, our dd sat between us, I sat in another chair and talked to my friend the entire time. BUT, ds could come running over on his break and could get water from me and give his Dad a high-5. I think that is how it should be. We were cordial to each other, but engaged in no small talk.

It isn't confusing to me. I know how I act toward WS/STBX. I use those terms interchangeably. I don't call him an asshole, or have a "nasty pet name for him" as some do on SI. I am so detached from him it isn't even funny. When he isn't bothering me...he doesn't even cross my mind. When he does, it is, "Hunh...wonder if he deposited that money yet?" or "What clothes does he need for this weekend?" type thoughts. My IC said he is like a gnat to me, just something buzzing around in the background.

What I don't understand is his unwillingness to detach from ME. I have never made a mistake with WS. *I* can go to dinner with him 2 times a year with the kids and think nothing of it. I don't need to call him bad names, and I have no desire what so ever to engage with him. I do not poke the dragon.

I'm just trying to understand why HE can't do the same. On SI, you just don't hear about too many WS's who can't seem to let go. He has been in a relationship (although rocky....) for over a year now. You would think that I wouldn't even cross his mind.

He did tell me around Christmas time that he thinks about me/my well-being a whole lot more now than he ever did while we were married.

Today, I am thinking nasty things about him because the tummy bug hit our house. I'm here, alone, dealing with vomiting kids and preparing for finals in 9 days. These are the kind of days that I really do hate being alone. I know it will pass, and I haven't said anything to him except "ds is vomiting".

I was talking to my SIL today, her parents were divorced...and not amicably. She said it was horrible having to "be traded" in parking lots. Her Dad wasn't allowed in her Mom's house, they couldn't even speak to each other. WS also came from D'd parents...he didn't see his Dad for 9 years. Even 25 years later, his parents can't speak to each other.

I DO NOT want that legacy for my kids. They deserve two parents who can be civil to each other and CO-parent. But it is such a difficult balancing act.

It is like I am civil...and he takes that as I have forgiven him and don't mind his boyfriend being all over the kids and at every function, and we can be best friends again.

If I am not civil, then I'm a bitch and called names.

What *I* want is a civil relationship, a civil CO-parent relationship where we both put our kids needs first. Where he doesn't ask stupid things, keeps his boyfriend's contact with the kids minimal, can stay within his own budget, and does what he says without me having to remind him. In other words, I want him to be an adult.

*I* can fucking do it...why can't he?

I know, this is all rhetorical. I am the adult, he is the Peter Pan, never grow up, ego-centric man child. It just seems to be getting worse instead of better.

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