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How do I know if he has really told me all

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flashgirlrider posted 4/17/2013 23:43 PM

My husband had an EA with a married women in our town, for about 4 months, mainly via text & facebook. I found this out in Nov last year while he was away on holiday. We have had about 4 D Days so far, as I find more evidence of the shit he was up too (prostitutes etc. Every time, I have come up with fresh evidence, he confesses, is truly sorry, didn't want to hurt me etc. However, we have done this confession upon confrontation thing 4 times now, and of course HE REALLY has told me EVERYTHING this time (unlike all the times before) I told him on first DDay if he had fucked the women he was texting, we were through. So of course he absolutely denies there was ever anything physical with her. I would really like to believe this, but I don't. I think I caught the affair just as it was moving into high gear, she had sent him a photo of her c***, from work. Classy. And he sent his overseas contact number so they could keep in touch while he was away. Any ways, I am in a state of misery, was sick this morning, couldn't go to work, I think my body is saying ENOUGH!!!

I suspect they had sex in my house. Yesterday I asked my husband to make love to me in a fantasy scenario (then asked him to move location next to the room I suspect they would of used), dressed sexy etc, normally this would flip his lid, he really wasn't into it, had to work pretty hard to do it! Which is not normal for him. Guilt? He apologized later for not been super keen, made some feeble excuses.
I have told him that I can forgive him pretty much anything, but not more lies. I wish I hadn't said that I would leave him if they had done anything physical, cause I think he will now lie till the end of time if it really did happen. He is sorry, loves me & wants to heal our relationship.
I still cant get past the feeling he is still lying to me.
How do I find out/get past this?
I have been able to retrieve some texts etc, but nothing to confirm/disprove they met up. She lives literally over our back fence, so it is just a hop skip & a jump.
He was home a couple of afternoons per week 2 hours before me, as part of our regular schedule, so would have had plenty of opportunity. I just need to damn well know yes or no. I don't want to hound him if its no, but I just don't believe it.
I am confused frustrated & upset.
I WANT TO KNOW HE REALLY IS TELLING THE TRUTH. I want to know he has stopped hurting me.

ShatteredYogi posted 4/18/2013 05:45 AM

I'm sorry that you're feeling this pain...the whole thing is devastating to begin with & ends up being more so when the lies continue.

I too doubt what my WH has told me...he swore up & down & around the moon before...& then I found out even more - which, he swears up & down & around the moon again, is it...I'm waiting for the shoe to drop that it isn't...*sigh*.

I really feel like we have to go with our gut on this one, which is why, in my case, I've asked my WH to take a polygraph (lie detector) test. He immediately got weird about it - kept asking me why I wanted him to take one & what specifically did I think he was lying about when he's already told me everything (like I haven't heard that one before!) so for me, the test is going to be the only way for me to know whether or not what he's told me is true. For me, it's the only way for me to know whether or not we can move forward.

Lies suck.

flashgirlrider posted 4/18/2013 06:46 AM

I told WS that i would need to send his phone off to have deleted texts, location data etc retrieved, and that it was a deal breaker if he refused.Agreed to this, but due to me not pushing it (it is work phone, we were going overseas shortly etc) I didn't send off. Also the fact that I desperately wanted to believe him.
Did my own retrieval with soft ware & found more lies. Again brought up sending phone away, he wanted to let sleeping dogs lie etc, would be stuff on there that would hurt me, I may misinterpret, whatever! Again I left it (so damn weak). Organized courier, another phone for him and all last week. Said I was doing it, he said "there might be stuff on there that might seem like he was trying to hook up with people, but he wasn't". HMMMMMMM not very reassuring. Asked how much - a fortune, he got all omg thats so much blahblah (not like we cant afford it, and I did remind him he had spent that much recently on prostitutes) very reluctantly agreed. Oh but not before telling me he thought I HAD BEEN SNEAKY organising courier, phone sim card etc!!!!!! GRRRRRRR I have told him numerous times this was what I intended doing!!! He agrees to do it, very reluctantly.
So I leave it, ask him to look me in the eye & tell me he has told me all. Which he sincerely did. As he has every other time. He has been doing mainly good stuff, been caring & understanding of me, apologizing alot. As I really am frightened of reading any horrible stuff he said to his AP about me, backed out again, as I want to reconcile, and dont want the burden of knowing what whining shit he said about me and our relationship.
Forgot to mention the (the assorted condoms, we usually have a few on hand, but there were lots) plus new pack of condoms, minus 1 & the lube sachet in his bedside cabinet that I found when packing his stuff while he was away. Story for that was he is insecure about his penis size, and wanted to try one to see if it fit. REALLY?
God I am sooo gullible. The more I look at the whole thing, the more it just seems like total BullShit.
Yogi, I feel for you, this is such a crap crap feeling & it just goes on & on. Heading for confrontation number 5 :(
When will it end?

ShatteredYogi posted 4/18/2013 07:22 AM

Flashie - I wish I could say when it will end...I'm not there yet myself :(

One thing I do know - from reading a lot from the healing library on SI - is that there has to be complete transparency on our WH's part....and we need to be able to FEEL that they're being transparent - otherwise, we end up right back at square 1 each time another lie comes rearing it's ugly head.

I feel that all this 'I just want to protect you from more hurt...' is just more selfishness on their part - they want to protect themselves & their secrets *deep sigh*.

Good luck with round 5 *hugs*

mepe27 posted 4/18/2013 09:26 AM

I think there are two parts to this. First, if you find out he had sex with her are you still leaving? If not, you can tell him you changed your mind. I agree he may have decided to never tell you for fear that would be the last straw and now he's backed into a corner.
If you give him that out he may take it.

But you have to decide about that, I wouldn't lie and say it's not a deal breaker then get the info and leave.

I had a similar situation, my H and the OW swore they didn't have sex but I just knew they did, the story didn't make sense if they didn't. I didn't have exact proof but I had enough proof that would lead a normal adult human to believe they had sex. I wrote it all out and presented it to my h. But normally I'd say "did you have sex with her?" he'd say no. this time I said "I know you had sex with b/c of these facts 1.2.3." If you did not have sex please explain in detail why you didn't when you had these opportunities. a part of me hoped he'd say he couldn't go thru with it or he couldn't physically get things working but he admitted it then.

so I think if you decide you are willing to work on the marriage if he gives you all the details you need, you need to make it ok for him to tell you, otherwise he will keep hiding it hoping you will let it go and won't leave.

That being said, you won't be able to let it go. Oh god I tried, I wanted to believe him but I knew and I couldn't unknow and it was eating me alive. I never could have just accepted that and moved on.
But after that big piece of the puzzle was revealed it turned out I didn't need much more in order to move on. I was tempted to ask all the gory details but ultimately I decided, they had sex, how when where wasn't important to me, they had sex and we had so much work to do, we needed to figure out how to repair this crap we were in more than me knowing whether or not they had oral sex..before I asked another question I'd ask myself will knowing the answer to this help me heal, if no, I'd move on.

For me, part of the other specific questions was me wanting to understand why he did this. Maybe some tiny detail would explain it all but thats not how it works. It had nothing to do with the OW, his A was about him not knowing how to cope with life and not having boundaries. So I needed to focus my discussions on those issues rather than what she said or wore that was different from me. kwim?

confused615 posted 4/18/2013 09:30 AM

he's still lying. Your gut is screaming. I highly doubt this was "just" an EA. He's an is she...they thought they were in luuuurve..she sent him at least one naked pic of herself...and they had contact with eachother...this was most certainly a PA.

Ask him if he'll take a polygraph. Google polygraphs in your should be able to find a licensed,reputable person who can administer a usually costs about $500. he can sell some of his shit to pay for it. If he has told you everything,he will jump at the chance to prove it. If he is lying,he will come up with excuses. And go through with it. Chances are,you'll get a parking lot confession. Regardless,follow through with it.

Does the MOW's BH know about the affair? Have you asked him for any evidence?

ETA: Ive read your profile. It looks like you havent told her BH because some of the texts she sent your WH said her BH was abusive. Honey..that is one of the oldest OW tricks there is...they say this shit so their OM can play KISA(knight in shining armor).

Tell her BH. Call him,dont email or facebook him..she knows you know,so she is probably watching for you to contact her BH and she will intercept it. Tell him the facts..try to refrain from saying anything negative about his wife..his instinct may be to defend her. Tell him you have hard evidence and offer to meet with him. Make copies of everything you have and give him one. Dont tell your WH you're doing this. He will warn her..and she has already said she will make you out to look crazy,and chances are she will get to her BH before you do..and he won't listen to you.

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:42 AM, April 18th (Thursday)]

libertyrocks posted 4/18/2013 10:07 AM

After 5 months, I'm still in the same boat. WH started of telling me about one ONS with a co-worker when I first found out from our phone bill. Well, as of the night before last, it's up to 8 women in the past 3 years and one a year long relationship, he had a girlfriend! Trust your gut. I still get the feeling WH is lying. Every time, we discuss things, it's ALWAYS, "I told you everything." I don't believe him any more. Sure, he's remorseful, less defensive, answers questions, helps out, etc. But, I still think there's more. Hopefully he can figure out his own issues in IC. Trust yourself!! I'm so sorry, I know each new found out lie is like a stab to the heart, trust me. I keep telling him we have to start over with every new discovery. I'm now trying to make it comfortable for him to confess his feelings. I tell him I love him and everything will be ok between us. It seems to work.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 10:07 AM, April 18th (Thursday)]

Pass posted 4/18/2013 11:57 AM

Flash, you're allowed to change your mind as many times as you want. He changed his mind about your wedding vows, so don't even worry about it. Tell him you won't divorce him, but you have to know the truth.

Once you feel you know everything, then you will be able to make an educated choice about whether you want to stay married or not.

By the way, the longer you wait to send his phone for data retrieval, the less likely they'll find something. Every time he gets a new text, it could be overwriting what you're wanting to find. Send it now.

Don't let him make you feel guilty about it: You haven't cheated on anyone!

flashgirlrider posted 4/19/2013 22:10 PM

Thanks everyone. I spoke to him again, said I could forgive him for sleeping with her, but not for lying. He still absolutely denies it. The whole condom story doesn't add up to me. He had the opportunity to do it, and I think it was at that stage of intensity. He told me the closest they had come was at the end of Oct, but they didi'nt. A whole month passed before I found out about the affair. What was happening in that time? They were totally into it by then.
He has also told me that he had made the decision to sleep with some one else while away before he left, so he was already in the mind set he was going to be unfaithful.
I have 5 pics she sent him, the last just before he went away of her vagina blrgh :(
That seems pretty intimate to me.
I am now seriously considering telling her BS. I am having a real dilemma with this. Our kids go to the same school, & this is a SMALL town.
I worry about the consequences for them, this is the main reason I havent told her BS yet.
I also wonder how he will handle it? We have kept things fairly together, and our son has no idea, other than there been some increased tension in the household.
There are also the feelings for me about what will people say (and really I shouldn't care). And my husbands shame been made public. I guess its all the usual stuff that people feel in these circumstances. I also hate the fact that she probably thinks she has gotten away with it. If my husband has been honest & not contacted her since it all came out, she will have no idea just how much shit I have on her, with the texts & pics.
Still so freaking up & down, one minute think we can get through this, the next, is he lying? Still in contact? ARGH. Just want to scream & scream.
Certainly wont be telling WH if I decide to tell her BS. have discussed with him previously, & he is obviously not keen on the idea- whole kids thing.
Told him after our discussion that I still believe he is lying.
Also discussed how he FB friended girl he slept with whilst away, so ok he said they were just friends. Then we were reconciling, him apologizing, so guilty, loves me wants me etc. As he was still lying to me at that stage about sleeping with her, I can understand he couldnt just unfriend her on fb with out me wondering why. BUT he called her after Christmas!!!!!!! I asked why in the hell he thought it was ok to have ANY sort of contact with her, when he was supposedly fully committed to fixing our marriage. He tells me there was no thought of hooking up again, or whatever, she was just nice & he enjoyed hanging out with her. WTF?
He can understand how I feel betrayed. So sorry again blah blah.
I am also finding it hard that all of these realizations are so slow coming to me.
He said often after DDAY 1 that he wished I had found out sooner- this just makes me think he has slept with that bitch. I was so like, well I know now, so thats great we can start sorting stuff out, but he was kinda repetitive with that one.
I really think I do have to tell her BS, and get this all out in the clear light of day.
Scary shit, and I feel awful & guilty that I didn't. tell him straight up, & now he will have to go through all this shit.

[This message edited by flashgirlrider at 10:22 PM, April 19th (Friday)]

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