I know this is really early in the process, but she is exhibiting true remorse...it feels genuine to me. We've both said we're committed to working through this. We've started going on dates, we're spending more time together: working out, dancing, etc...all things to try and ressurect our marriage.
I talked to her about withdrawal symptons for the WS and she said that she hadn't experienced that and that that time in her life seems like a lifetime ago even though it was only 1.5 months. She is going through a substantial amount of shame and self-loathing...which is entirely appropriate. I'm not saying that because I want her to experience the pain I am...I'm saying it because it is the proper response for someone who is experiencing true remorse.
Our next MC session is going to be on the A so I'll find out more details, but the impression I get is that guilt and the pain this was inflicting on our M was what eventually lead both WW and the OM to end it. The fact that this was done voluntarily and before I found out is one encouraging point. She's cut off all communication and had no contact. I believe her when she says this...I know I shouldn't, but well...I guess I want to believe her.
We talked a little about all this 2 days ago. She said that she felt like she was in a trance/fog for a year. She felt hopeless, alone, unhappy with herself. This doesn't justify the A and I'm not trying to do that. I'm just communicating how she felt during this time.
I feel like we're at the beginning stages of R. I have made the choice to forgive her, but am really struggling with the emotional rollarcoaster.
It's just such a weird feeling. For example, yesterday we had a great day...spent all afternoon and evening together and everything felt right. I was actually able to fall asleep unmedicated. Then I wake up this morning at 4:30 a.m. and I can't stop thinking of the A.
It feels like we're on the upswing and I want the M to work so badly. Even though this whole experience has caused me great pain, I still love her. It's the only thing that has kept me in the M.
Just posting this because it helps get it all off my chest.
[This message edited by Grimwyrm at 9:38 AM, April 18th (Thursday)]
Your D-day is extremely recent. Thus, what you are going through is very, very natural.
It seems like your WW has a lot of issues of her own that she needs to work through but seems to be willing to do what it takes to make the M work and change herself.
I feel like we're at the beginning stages of R. I have made the choice to forgive her, but am really struggling with the emotional rollarcoaster.
I am not sure what your response was like when you found out about the A (cried, screamed, withdrew, etc.) or if you are in shock still to some degree but are trying to work through the situation as best you can because you see how remorseful your WW is.
It really does help when our WS are remorseful but it doesn't negate the process we ourselves have to go through to heal.
So, even though your WW is making effort, it is natural for you to go through the grieving stages of knowing that you were betrayed and that is OK!!!
You seem very sympathetic to your WW and it seems like her brokenness is pretty much at the center of what's going on with the both of you right now.
However, even though you are sympathetic and are grateful for WWs remorse, just know it's OK to take care of you and allow yourself to experience and go through whatever you may need to to heal as well.
Everyone is different in how they deal with things...but do know it's OK to have your moments and to seek out healthy outlets to deal with whatever you are facing at any given moment.
You sound like a really loving and forgiving person and I wish you and your WW nothing but the best. :)
[This message edited by h0pe4ul at 12:15 PM, April 18th (Thursday)]
I had kinda suspected and had spent a considerable amount of time praying on it.
She told me in her parent's fields...it wasn't what she intended, but it's what happened. She had originally wanted to bring it out in the MC sessions (which we had already scheduled). We had had a prior conversation where we both agreed something was wrong with our marriage and we needed MC 2 weeks prior to D-Day.
I had a few questions, but not many. I guess I was in a little shock, but she started to cry when she was telling me and so I just held her. That was my response. I told her that I didn't agree with what she did, but that I wasn't meeting her needs and so she sought out how to fill that void.
I'm not justifying what she did, but it has helped me cope because what I've learned from our first MC session was that she had felt completely abandonded, neglected, uncherished, unloved, and alone in our marriage and that she had felt that way for awhile.
I talked to a friend of mine at work who'se recently gone through a D. She could sympathize with my WW because she had been in that same place in her marriage. She said its the coldest, loneliest feeling in the world to feel abandonded and unloved in a marriage.
My relationship with my WW was like that. I've since made some significant changes in my life, not as a response to save the marriage, but to improve myself which will, by extension, improve the marriage.
I can't say that I have experienced the rage yet. I have prayed fervently to God that he help us through this and give both of us some peace. Mostly...I just feel an overwhelming sense of sadness that all of this happened.
That being said, the Easter D-Day confession allowed me WW to finally get the weight of that secret off her shoulders and I was actually kinda glad to see that. She seemed like her old self again. Later she told me that she was so glad that she didn't have to lie to me anymore. I really feel like we got a jumpstart on the healing process because I chose to forgive as soon as I found out...on D-day. It was a decision I had made a week before in the middle of the night when I first suspected this was/had happened. I really feel like God was with us that day and continues to be with us as we work through this.
We've started going to church again, we're going through MC, she has agreed to go to a support group for other WW, I'm attending personal counseling myself, we are making a daily effort to draw closer to one another and rekindle the flame. I'm not saying its been a 180...its a rollar coaster for her too, but for different reasons.
I don't know how or why my experience has turned out like this...I can only credit God who I have prayed to fervently for the past month. I really feel like He is saving our marriage.
Sorry for all the spiritual talk, but I'm a man of faith and I am definitely seeing God work in our lives to turn a horrible horrible situation into an opportunity to build a stronger marriage. It gives me hope, despite having only just learned this a relatively short while ago.
Good luck to you.
I'm not what I ought to be. I'm not what I want to be. I'm not what I hope to be. But thank God, I'm not what I used to be.
If every BS had your type of experience, it would likely be WAY better for us others. A WS who DISCLOSES and initiates NC before even being asked to is a HUGE step in the right direction. The WS likely has WAY fewer self-esteem, deceitful, untrustworthy, etc., issues than a WS who has to be cornered, yet still continues to lie repeatedly about the A even for months on end until you finally show them proof that you know and threaten to leave them and file for divorce just to get them to FALSE R for a couple months while still sleeping around on you while you are alone with your child at home thinking they are at the beach, but in fact they have flown to a completely different state, and are getting nailed by a very unsavory character in a Las Vegas rental property. And no, that story is not made up. In fact, it is just a fraction of my story.
So kudos for her being honest, disclosing upfront, etc., but that still doesn't excuse the fact that she chose to betray you and desecrate the marriage she vowed to protect and cherish. Regardless of the problems she has had in the marriage, and that you probably equally contributed to (or at least in part contributed to), she should have come to you expressing concern before ever seeking the outside guidance of another dude's bed (or couch or Ford Festiva). That is where I would think she needs to focus her attention on discovering why she acted in such a betraying way toward you and your marriage instead of talking to you and bringing up her concerns. Then, if she would have done that, and you didn't meet her on the same page (provided they were legitimate concerns, and not just silly things like: I wish you looked more like Ryan Reynolds, or had biker tattoos, or worked at Sbarro, etc.), then she could have ended the marriage and started over with someone else without betraying you and, in reality, herself.
Something to consider. And really believe this: Nothing you did caused her to act in the way she did by having an A. NOTHING! She owns that. 100%. And always will.
Wanted to give an update since it's been a couple weeks since I last posted.
Since then we have had 2 MC sessions that have focused almost entirely on the A. WW has answered the questions I've had even though I know it was very difficult for her.
I can honestly say that I think the fog has finally lifted and the full weight of what she's done has hit her like a ton of bricks.
Our MC told her to talk more and for me to listen more. Over the past 6 weeks she has gradually been opening up more and more to me emotionally. She's begun talking about our old life...that's how we refer to everything before Easter now...how unhappy she was, even how she had contemplated suicide briefly because she was so unhappy in our marriage.
I've come to learn just how bad her avoidance problem is and how that, coupled with my own passive aggressiveness, created very fertile ground for her to succumb to temptation.
She has agreed to IC, but hasn't yet set anything up. I'm going to stress how important this is in our next MC if she hasn't done anything by then.
She told me that she wants me to personally attend the IC. I don't know how I feel about that, but I'll do it if she wants me to. Another question for the MC I think.
I've read that the R process is like taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. I kinda feel that way, but I'll also say that I have been very very fortunate. I truly believe that she is telling me the truth now because her actions are validating that she is telling me the truth. She's much more forthcoming about how she feels and her own emotions. We continue to pray together every night and she's even taken to reading the Bible again herself (that is very important to both of us).
We continue to have small breakthroughs that are signs of hope. For example, I have made the decision to tell her the truth about how I'm feeling at all times. This past Tuesday I was mad at her and I came home angry. She asked me what was wrong and I told her that my day had sucked. She asked if it was because of her and I said yes. I then told her how I had been going through my txt messages from her over the past year because I was trying to figure out the date of a certain non-related family event. Well...I came across all the old lies she had sent me about where she was and who she was went. It caused a massive trigger.
After telling her this, she left the room and I found her in our bathroom crying to herself and starting to emotionally withdraw.
Now...as I've said...we have been basically spending almost all of our free time together as we try to reconnect. We were supposed to be getting dressed to go work out with our physical trainer. She said that she didn't want to go and then went to the living room. I sat in the bathroom for awhile kicking myself because I felt like we had just backtracked, but then made the decision to go see how she was doing.
I found her in her rocking chair crying. We talked and during that conversation I told her how it had really bugged me how she had yet to apologize to me for what she did. She said that the reason was because she just couldn't see how simply saying "I'm sorry" could possibly make up for what she did. She felt terrible about it and regretted it so much. She then said that she was sorry...she was incredibly sorry. Some other conversation took place and then she asked "What now?" I didn't understand what she meant so I asked for clarification and she said "Do you still love me?" A resounding yes. I asked her the same - Yes.
It was at that point that she came over to the couch, sat down next to me, collapsed into my arms and we just held each other for almost 5 minutes. She said that she remembered in the past...before the A...she used to sit in that rocking chair and felt trapped and helpless in a loveless marriage. It was then she said that she used to look into the future and wondered whether it was really worth it.
This is something that she has never shared with me. To be hoenst...I know that I was emotionally checked out for awhile...well before the A took place. We had gradually disconnected emotionally for so long that we just reached a point where we didn't even talk to each other about our emotions.
I thanked her for telling me that and she said that she wanted to go work out because otherwise she was just going to sit in that chair and sulk. After our workout she was her old self again and she even said on the way home that in our old marriage a conversation like that would have resulted in her sitting in that chair the entire evening and sulking. I told her that I thought it was great that she fought her own avoidance issues and won...and that I will continue to help her with that fight.
This morning we talked before going to work and she mentioned that she realizes now that she has to talk to me about how she feels and how she used to not think it was proper or her role to put that on me.
Now I'm not going to say that we have fully reached R. We still haven't been physically intimate. I think we might have some time to go before that starts again, but I'm patient and willing to wait because she's worth it to me.
All that said...given that it's only been 6 weeks since I found out...well it truly is a work of God that we are as far along as we are.
I know this may sound weird to a lot of you given it's been less than 2 months since I found out, but I really do feel like I am beginning to trust her again and I'm so grateful for that. The way I see it: she's a good person that made a big mistake and I'm a good person that made a big mistake. Together...we are crawling out of our own brokeness and reassmebling our life. I really and truly feel like our marriage is going to be stronger. We've both already said multiple times that we feel more emotionally close than we have in years. It's just such a good feeling to know that when she said "I love you"...that she really means it.
1. Stds testing. You and her.
2. NC letter to OM. (Do they work together?)
3. Full transparency.
4. IC for her!! (Big one)
She needs to have a clear understanding why she chose to go outside the marriage when she was unhappy.
Dealing with infertility can be very hard on a marriage and there are some pretty amazing stats on those marriages and divorce rates. However I think there is more to her cheating than this.
Being intimate can help a lot with R, and rebuilding the bonds that have been broken, and I would certainly not withhold it as a form of control or punishment, that will only build resentment.
((((and strength to you both)))))
I wasn't meeting her needs and so she sought out how to fill that void.
If you still think this, stop! Right now!
First, the healthy way to handle a spouse who's not doing his job is to confront the problem, ask for changes, and split if the changes don't come. Then, after the D, it's fine to date.
If your MC thinks the A was due to your failure to meet reasonable needs, you may very well need a new MC, because...
Second, and more important, the A isn't about you. It's about your W's inability to deal with her own thoughts and feelings. In all probability, you're just collateral damage. There's almost definitely nothing reasonable you could have done to prevent the A.
It sounds like there are things you could have done better before the A. That's a great realization - make changes as you rebuild your M. But you bear no responsibility for the A.
Some WSes do become remorseful on D-Day, so you may very well be seeing reality WRT your W's remorse. If she wants you in some of her IC sessions, that sounds like a positive message to me - she either wants your support, or she wants the IC's support to say something. either way, it sounds like a win for honesty, and that's good for both of you.
I don't and she doesn't. To her credit, she takes full responsibility for the A and recognizes it as a very poor decision on her part.
I recognize and hold myself accountable for contributing to the poor marital state we were in up to the A, but I've told her multiple times that I am in no way liable nor condone what she did. That's my boundary.
Our MC has been very good on these points.
Brooks and Dunn's "She's not the cheating kind" started playing and I switched the channel. She thanked me and said "Bad life decisions have ruined half of all country music for me."
We actually kinda laughed about it, but then I did follow that up with "Well that shows you just how common it is."
[This message edited by Grimwyrm at 8:33 AM, May 10th (Friday)]
Too many ads for me on the C & W stations here, but I often hear
Shot in the heart, and you're to blame.
You give Love a bad name.
My W can't listen to it....
If you ever read my posts you'll begin to notice one day I'm top of the world then all of a sudden the rain comes!!
Last weekend was awesome- this week totally shit- it has taught me to remember the down times don't last forever and when it's good- enjoy it. Someone said to me on SI (can't remember who now) that the good times pull you through the bad at this time and I'm going to really take heed of that.
Today is a good day!! I'm a bit of a joker so humour does really help me- I'm such an idiot that without a sense of humour I'd probably be like Lennie out of "Of Mice & Men" ha. I end up saying something stupid like:
"I hate cheating little bastards... I mean the footballer on the TV... not you... you're not a cheating little bastard... you're lovely... but you did cheat... and you are little... I'm going to stop talking now"
Seriously though mate I think going down the forgiveness route for a truly remorseful and sincere W shows a real depth of character and a big heart.
That's just my two pennies worth mate
Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.
WW has also agreed to IC which will begin after she gets back from some offsite work she is having to do in June.
The last month has been fantastic and even though I only found out about this about 2 months ago, I don't even think about the A much. Everything she has done and said has been validated through her actions and by her allowing me to validate them through her communication record.
More importantly, we are spending more and more time together in ways that we simply never did previously. For example, we now talk in the morning for about 30 minutes before we go to work. We are spending tons of quality 1-on-1 time together.
Honestly...it's like we've got a whole other marriage...a stronger one. We've even reached a point where we can talk about the A without either of us going into a downward spiral.
I wanted this so badly and prayed about it fervently. It has been such a relief to see it happen and I can't thank God enough for helping bring us back together.
We're talking about the future again, we're planning our life together, we're cuddling, spending more and more time together...we're doing stuff again.
When I first found out about this, I knew in my heart that I still loved her despite what had happened. Our M was in a very bad place anyways, regardless of the A. Change was needed and we both needed an experience to show ourselves just how bad it had gotten. The A did that. It made us face the question of whether or not we really loved the other person. We both said that the M was more important.
I don't know if this will be the last post I ever make here, but I will say that I am 100% certain that we have made it through the hard part of this. We aren't sweeping it under the rug...we're facing it...trying to understand it...and then moving on as wiser people.
[This message edited by Grimwyrm at 10:00 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)]
I know that part of forgiving and loving is not keeping record of wrong, and I don't, but- as new things/triggers/attacks come into your mind, being honest with her about them will help you a lot! Even if it does hurt her to have to think about what she did or answer old questions, ignoring it on your end doesn't make it go away! Stick with it bro, you guys are well on your way!
[This message edited by somedude at 4:14 PM, May 23rd (Thursday)]