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I feel in limbo

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amiready posted 4/23/2013 10:41 AM

I am posting this both in this Reconciliation forum as well as the Divorce/Separation as I am hoping for support from either side. As the title states, I am in limbo and feel like as I get closer to a year of Dday, I feel clearer and clearer of how I want to live the rest of my life. My WH has been the model of father and husband since I agreed to try and make it work. At the beginning I was elated and just wanted to move on. As the smoke has cleared, I have been feeling more and more that I may not be able to stay married to him. I have been thinking about whether this whole A is my dealbreaker for my marriage. I have always been a forgiving person (some would call a doormat at times), I try to work things out for the sake of peace and everyone else's happiness. This time, though, I feel so many terrible emotions and the deepest betrayal that I just don't know if I can get any type of marriage relationship back with him. I have been struggling with these feelings for about a month and they seem to be getting stronger. I also feel like although he is being there, being attentive, making changes on the outside. He is still not following through on things that MC has suggested (ie talking to my parents/his parents (they were there when I found out about his actions), and other things that would make me feel like I can move on from the hurt. He says he will do it in MC but doesn't take the initiative outside... He said to me the other day, "i feel like sometimes you just want me to be miserable"... and thats exactly how i don't want him or me to feel...
I would appreciate any feedback, we go back to MC next week and I am nervous about saying something about how I don't think its working and regretting my words...
Has anyone gone through this, is there any way to clarify whether these things that I am going through are normal in R or are they more pointing towards D??? Thank you

TrustGone posted 4/23/2013 10:58 AM

Only you will know if the A is a deal breaker for you. It sounds like you are still not getting the things you need to R from your WH. This needs to be brought up in MC. The fact that he says he will do things and doesn't do them is probably causing more trust issues. A lot of the time it is not the affair, but the aftermath that leads to D. If your WH will not step up and own this, then you will continue to feel this way. Your love for him will start to fade as a result of your detaching yourself from the marriage and the pain.

I know. I am living with one just like him. I am also almost a year from DDay#2. He is sweet, transparent, loving, etc.. But he won't go to counceling anymore and he won't discuss the A at all. He is rug sweeping and it is getting old. I cannot file for D at this time due to health issues, but eventually I will because I don't want to live with this pain forever.

I would bring this up at the next MC session. The fact that he tells them he will do things and doesn't is a major issue in R and if he is willing to man up then you might still have a chance. (((HUGS)))

Nature_Girl posted 4/23/2013 10:59 AM

I was in limbo for a long time after DDay. I kept waiting & hoping that WH would take some kind of initiative to make positive changes in our life. Do something, anything, to improve himself as a human being. He did nothing. As I waited & waited it was painfully clear to me what the ultimate outcome would be, even though I did not want to embrace that outcome. I kept hoping, even though I knew in my heart that I would never be able to trust him again, never be able to love him again, never be able to respect him again.

I kept on having DDays until finally, just like they say here, it stopped when I said stop. I had to pull the proverbial plug on the corpse that our marriage had turned into. When I finally accepted that I deserved better, my children deserved better, I was willing to file for divorce & bury the marital body. I didn't kill it, but I sure did bury it.

amiready posted 4/23/2013 11:38 AM

Thank you both for your comments. they are helpful and supportive, which is what I need right now. I will bring it more at MC. The counselors have brought it up the times we have been there, but its been about a month since our last visit and he hasn't done anything they suggested since...
"trustgone", that is an interesting statement that you made about the aftermath and something I am going to truly take in and think about... I didn't think about it that way. Thank you again.

phmh posted 4/23/2013 19:16 PM

For me, the affair opened my eyes to who he really was. I didn't really believe in divorce -- we'd talked many times before marriage about how it wasn't an option -- so he was emotionally and verbally abusive (usually under the guise of "just kidding!") and I put up with it -- like you, getting along and putting his needs above my own.

I feel fairly confident that he wouldn't have cheated again. He really wanted to R, as long as it was on his terms (I told him I would R if we signed a favorable -- but not punitive -- post-nup as I'd be taking a huge risk financially to quit my job and move with him to where his job was -- long story. He declined, saying I should just trust him )

But, during the time that I was doing the 180 and then living on my own, I realized how I'd been walking on eggshells for years. Ultimately, it wasn't the A, but the fact that it opened my eyes and made me realize I deserved so much better.

What bothers me most about your post is that it's not even a year past D-Day, and he's already not following through. (Which, actually, doesn't sound like the model father and husband you said he was in the beginning of your post.) It scares me because it seems to be more the rule than the exception that false R happens -- the BS finally starts to heal and feel good, when, years or decades later, there is yet another affair. It makes me so sad to think that the BS could have gotten out earlier, healed, and had extra years or decades of happiness. It would be one thing if he truly were doing everything, but it sounds like he's not. It seems like he's playacting at remorse, which means the likelihood of re-occurrence is great as there's no lasting, sustainable, internal change taking place.

Obviously, it's your choice, and I think my choice was made much easier because we didn't have kids to think about. It's just a terrible situation all around, and there's no clear, good answer. There's no way to unring the bell, so you have to try to make the best of a terrible situation. I hope you are able to find your best path to future happiness.

SBB posted 4/24/2013 02:05 AM

It could be that the betrayal was not a dealbreaker but his not following through on your requirements for R is becoming a dealbreaker.

You want to feel safe. You have asked things of him to help you feel safer. He has shown an unwillingness to do those things. Therefore you do not feel safe. Hence the limbo.

If you don't stand by your boundaries and you start accepting things thy are not acceptable to you then you are walking the same path as DD and heading for a DD2.

It is a form of Rugsweeping - I did it to myself too. I thought if I just ignored it and trusted that he would be 'good' ie: not fuck anyone else then we could forget about it all. Truth is that was never going to happen. Whilst he was still exhibiting non-remorseful behaviour I was still living with a cheater, he was just a Dry Drunk at that stage.

His betrayals were dealbreakers for me. I knew it on DD but raged against it all throughout False R and beyond. It was only a few months after Final S that I was able to admit to myself that it was a dealbreaker. Full stop.


brokenheart11 posted 4/24/2013 07:30 AM

This too is how I am feeling lately. We are 2 years since A and we have only been to MC about 3 times since. I have also expressed to him how important it is that he even goes for his own counseling, and he said he isn't ready. Also he has just recently admitted to some stuff that he has been hiding this entire time. I am so confused

Pippy posted 4/24/2013 08:02 AM

All the old songs about you getting stronger after going through this are true. That's why you are starting to feel you deserve better than being the family doormat.

The most important step to R is 'remorse'. He is not there and is disrespecting you by discounting your pain. As long as he feels you will take what he dishes out, he will keep it up. He has no reason to change.

You deserve better. Do not live your life for everyone else. YOU matter. YOU deserve better.

amiready posted 4/24/2013 08:48 AM

I can't tell you all how grateful I am for your responses. This is such a great place for folks like us that just need this type of support. I need to start thinking of my self and like you all say, I can keep saying he is doing everything, but when I truly look at it, he is not really doing anything different and I have let it go on for so long that its hard for me to see the difference!!! I am going to be reading and re-reading all these posts as they are truly the first real support i have gotten (as you all get where I am coming from!!!!) thank you!!!

amiready posted 5/8/2013 13:11 PM

Well, I brought my issues up in counseling and the counselor outright asked me if I felt H was not all in the R. I said that is what I am trying to process. I noticed a lot of excuse giving and "i thought if I just concentrated on our family of 4 it would be enough." I told them that I am just at the end... that I am suspicious and I feel like he is taking advantage of me. He went on and on how that's not true, and so on. I felt a lot of hot air moving around the room and he wants to blame anyone but himself... He gave all these reasons (excuses) why he can't be held responsible if I am not here and whatnot... I am still in the same place of not making a concrete decision to D.. but leaning more and more towards at least a separation while I decide on a D. I stated I think he should be bending over backwards to make things right and its like he half-axx everything and that doesn't make me feel any better than 7 months ago when I had my DD, it makes me feel worse. The counselor at the very end stated to me that although they feel like there has been a lot of progress, I have to determine whether I feel like it is true progress or whether he is not all in, as if he is not all in, then its not going to work... interesting.... I just needed to post and have the support as I feel like people are starting to sit up and listen that I am not going to be a doormat anymore..
at least I feel heard, whether they (counselors and H) agree, I still feel like I was able to voice that I am not any closer to rebuilding, I am further away.. and pretending otherwise is no longer on my agenda. thanks for reading!

amiready posted 6/18/2013 12:26 PM

I thought I would go back to some older posts that I had written and read to try and get some perspective on how to proceed. It's been 8 months since Dday and I am still in limbo land. I have talked with IC and MC, I have talked with WH (who just wants us to be together). He has even set up times to look at houses an hour away because I told him moving was one of my most important things to do to try and make this work. Yet... I can't even imagine what our vacation is going to look like when we visit my brother's family in July. We have a wedding this weekend and have to spend the night in a hotel, and I am not looking forward to it. He wants to plan a "family driving vacation" so we can' spend the time that we have lost due to his selfishness (his words) and I just can't get excited.
It's so hard with the two young ones as they adore their father... I feel like I really want to be a family again, I just don't see how. I feel like I am waiting for him to get fed up with being patient and transparent with me. I feel like I am still looking for something that could prove to me that he is not being truthful. I am suspicious that he is all of a sudden bringing his laptop to work and other places (i know, i know.. a BIG red flag). I am not sure if I should confront him about it and ask why he is doing that... I just don't know... Is this normal to feel like this or am I missing that I am leaning towards one decision or another. Please, any feedback would be appreciated!!! Sorry for the long post!

jackie89 posted 6/18/2013 13:23 PM

amiready -I'm sorry that you still feel this way, that it has not improved.

We have a wedding this weekend and have to spend the night in a hotel, and I am not looking forward to it.

But in my honest opinion, this statement and the fact that you don't even like going on vacation with him, says a lot!

It sounds like, emotionally, you are no longer there. You are trying to make it work for the kids sake.

I know it's hard to decide what is right for you and for your family. Do you trust him, do you love him? Do you want to live the rest of your life being the infidelity police?

I was in limbo and separated, as he kept coming back with "I miss you" and "I want to make it work" blah blah - except his actions never matched his words.

So I had to ultimately decide to move on emotionally, for MYSELF.

We're not teaching anything to the kids by staying with someone that you are no longer in love with, respect, or trust.

Maybe going on that vacation, or that wedding will give you the answers you need. Go with an open heart and see what happens.

Hang it there, you will know what is the right decision for you, you just will!

ButterflyGirl posted 6/18/2013 17:31 PM

I am nervous about saying something about how I don't think its working and regretting my words.

The analogy I like to use is that waywards need to be shown the door. Then, they can do everything in their power to get back in, groveling and going to counseling and being transparent and begging and pleading for another chance, or they can walk away (or they can be an abusive manipulating asshole as they walk away). I think this leads to a healthy relationship where they start respecting you and owning up to their mistakes and truly begin to reconcile. Or it leads to a healthy detachment since they are away from you now.

Your statement above sounds like you are scared to show him the door. Maybe you are scared that he's going to walk away if you start really expressing how you feel, but then you have your answer already and you don't want to face it.

You have to start standing up for yourself and demanding what you need to heal. The consequence for him not doing EVERYTHING you need him to do to heal this marriage is that you leave him. You can't hold onto him and keep him back from the door, allowing him to continue to disrespect you and leave you in limbo.. That is NOT going to lead to a healthy relationship. He needs to be all in working on this or get the hell out..

I could be wrong, but I'm just getting the feeling that you are scared to stand up for yourself as you might lose him, and that tells me that the relationship is already over and just needs to be buried.. Marriage and reconciliation are all about communication, and this isn't going to work if you are too scared to express yourself..

I very much recommend standing up for yourself and showing him the door right now. Let him know that you deserve better than this, and you will move on if he doesn't start showing it. His actions have to have consequences.. I've seen so many times on here from reconciled couples that things didn't get better until the BS did this. I think it's the best way out of limbo. It forces him to make a decision..

It sounds like you really want your marriage to work out. I did too.. But there is no secret way for a BS to turn an unremorseful WS into a remorseful one. There just isn't a way to do this.. You can only put up your rules and boundaries and give him the consequences if he doesn't follow through..

Hugs.. I'm sorry he is treating you this way.. A remorseful spouse wouldn't be getting impatient with you or making you feel bad for needing transparency to heal, or giving you all those red flags. Please trust your gut. You deserve better..

amiready posted 6/20/2013 08:24 AM

Thank you both for your responses to my most recent comment. I had a trigger the other day, and I didn't really realize it until later... When I found out about the A, part of the texting I found was banter about a stupid type of car and how the engineers obviously didn't realize that the driver/passenger needed to be close.. I can cite the text verbatum, and the other day.. 8 months after the A, he was getting his oil changed at the same place, and he emailed me that he thought I should look at the Venza as he thinks it's a cute car... I may be overreacting but I feel like that may have been my final aha moment that he is just not the person I want to be with. I feel like if this type of thing still affects me and takes me right back to the way he was treating me while he was with her, it has to say something.
I am going to go to this wedding and see if anything changes, keep my heart open... but it's shutting fast and furious...
By the way, I think Butterfly girl, I am scared... I think you are right and hit it right on the head (and my head too!!!). jackie89-I think I am trying to make it work for the kids.. again, you hit it right on the head I think, that I am not there emotionally. I can feel it when I am with him, that I don't want to be near him or hold his hand or share stuff with him... its all right there, I just have to stand up for myself and not feel badly about my feelings and who I want to be!
I think that

SBB posted 6/20/2013 18:05 PM

Back when I was in False R I convinced myself that I might reach a point of forgiving the betrayal (I knew there were more, he denied all but the DD one).

I think I always knew deep down that even if I did forgive him for the betrayal I would never be able to forget it. Even if we did go on to have a lifetime together I would always think of this.

I would never be the last person he had sex with for the first time.

I would never forgive him for marring our relationship like this.

The thing I had the most difficulty with was forgiving myself for staying. It got harder and as False R moved along. I rugswept as hard as he did. I put my head in the sand. I tried to ignore my gut. All to no avail.

Truth is it didn't matter if he never did it again - he already did it. You cannot unring that bell and you cannot unfuck that girl.

I applaud those who are in True R. I don't envy the work they have to do to stay together on top of the work they have to do within themselves. I know I could not have healed whilst trying to heal my M at the same time.

The fact that he wasn't doing what was required for R and the fact that he wasn't truly remorseful didn't change my decision - just as it would not have been changed had he done and been those things.

It did make my decision easier and it brought it all to a head far sooner than it might have been. I believe it would have taken me a few years to build the strength to walk away.

I saw a quote recently that said "the harder you work the harder it is to surrender".

I had fought so long and hard for that M. I gave up so much of myself, I had betrayed myself for so long and I had tolerated so much for so long that it was very very difficult to walk away from that 'investment'.

To admit to myself that I was wrong about him, about our M and about me was agonising as it was difficult.

I cannot tell you how long I spent curled up on the floor crying a river of tears once I did admit these things. Once that part was over I felt a freedom I had not felt in years. It was as if I had unlocked the shackles I had used to tie myself to him.

I am now 8 months out from that time and I cannot tell you how amazing it is to be free of it. I still have to parallel parent with the lower muppet but even that is made all the more easier by having no loving feelings towards him. I'm no longer tortured by the what ifs or whys.

You know yourself and your situation better than anyone. I urge you to have a good, hard look inside yourself and ask yourself some hard questions. I know what my answers were.

numbandnauseous posted 6/20/2013 23:43 PM

amiready - I am sorry you are here. You have gotten great advice. The only thing I can add is that it sounds like your gut is screaming (re: the laptop) - listen to it!

Also, it sounds like you are detaching from him (not wanting to go on vacation with him, hold his hand, etc.) and that is good.

You're almost there, hon - it's happening already - you just need to process through it.


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