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R'ing without knowing why?

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MUFan posted 4/26/2013 07:53 AM

WH's IC has released him from counseling. I'm not sure because he doesn't know why he cheated. Can we truely R without knowing why? He says he was just weak and gave into temptation. I think there has to be something deeper than this.

idiot85 posted 4/26/2013 08:02 AM

There must be a reason- even if it's just that he has shady boundaries and is weak- there must be a reason why he is this way and why he went down that path.

I'm no expert- it's just a human perspective more than anything else- if a girl makes a pass at me I don't feel tempted in any way- I just think I must be looking good. I hope you know what I mean.

ms521 posted 4/26/2013 08:46 AM

WH and I just started MC and on our very first meeting our therapist asked us both for our "whys." WH doesn't have one yet, but I've fully owned my A and was able to explain my selfishness, my loneliness and the fact that the friendly (at first) attention from OM stroked my ego and made me feel important. I was feeling pretty good about taking responsibility for my actions and understanding the things that led me to cross my own boundaries into an A... but the therapist just smiled and told me that while my reason were all good, they fairly "superficial," and that we would be "digging much deeper than that." He said that his job is to get to a root cause for both of us that we might, at this point, be unable (or unwilling) to see.

WH and I would both tell you we've fully R'd from my affair. He has no triggers, I've earned back his trust, and I continue to just be completely transparent (it's just easier that way - I like having nothing to hide!). So is R possible without knowing the reason? Sure. But one thing our therapist said that hit me: neither of us could promise with 100% certainty that we wouldn't cheat again. In my head, I was like, what do you mean? Of course I can promise that!! But in discussing it further, he said our marriage was still just as vulnerable as it was on our wedding day. And I suppose he's right - as any remorseful WS will tell you, I didn't think I would cheat then. But I did. I don't think I'll cheat now... but, how can I be sure?? Is there something that goes deeper than a simple "I won't do it?" Our MC seems to believe so, and his professional opinion is that we're still vulnerable until we both understand a much deeper picture.

Knowing posted 4/26/2013 09:58 AM

Wow ms521, your MC kicks butt and takes no prisoners.

MUfan, could it be that your WS is aware of their whys but is unable to admit them to you? Just a thought. If that isn't the case then I'd say he needs to find another IC.

People get into As for many different reasons: need for validation, need for attention, personality disorders, sexual compulsion... The "why" is buried under that reason, what happened in their past that made their "need" more important than anything else, more important than their commitments to family and marriage, more important than their values, more important than their integrity?

MUFan posted 4/26/2013 12:17 PM

So I wrote him an email regarding what I wrote (easier to keep emotion out of it). He clarified the email that he had sent saying he was weak...she was providing him attention and felt like she needed him when I didn't. Its just hard for me to believe that her ego stroking could lead to this. But I thought he was a much more confident person than what he actually is.
Funny how perceptions are skewed.
ms521- sounds like you have a good MC.

PeaceLove187 posted 4/26/2013 12:33 PM

Since you registered in Jan then may I assume he's only been going to IC for maybe 3 months max? That sounds like a really short time for deep insights to happen and the fact that he is weak sounds awfully darn shallow. Now that he knows he's weak, what is he supposed to do with that information--just stop being weak?

Maybe your H is afraid to tell you the deeper issue they actually did dig up. Maybe your insured sessions had been used up. Maybe your H wasn't fully participating and had stopped making progress so the therapist fired him. Who knows, but his answer sounds too much like me saying I can't wear a size 6 because I'm fat. Well, yeah--but why am I fat? Because I eat too much. Well, yeah--but why do I eat too much? Because food comforts me. Well, yeah--but why do I turn to food for comfort? Good question and maybe if I could figure that one out then I wouldn't eat as much. Or I could stop at knowing I eat too much (or that I'm weak with poor food boundaries) and just try harder to be strong. My extra 30 pounds tells you that never lasts.

[This message edited by PeaceLove187 at 12:34 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

sisoon posted 4/26/2013 14:09 PM

What does your H say he accomplished in IC?

MUFan posted 4/26/2013 14:21 PM

He has told me that they looked at his fear of success due to his tendency to self sabotauge when things are going well (always been professionally before). How to help me heal and how to respond to my triggers. How to forgive himself for the A. His selfishness and lack of self confidence. How not to be a people pleaser.
He is totally remourseful and transparent.

Jrazz posted 4/26/2013 14:31 PM

What does "released from counseling" mean?

How long was he in? This just seems awfully sudden... did you hear this from the IC?

I'm sorry to be all question-y, it just sounds like WH is done digging or something.

Honestly, there's no good "why" that's going to clear this up... but betraying your spouse takes a lot of inner brokenness...

Would he be willing to find another IC that might be more, um, hands on?

Blobette posted 4/26/2013 15:06 PM

My WH had a crap therapist who said much the same. He's now with a much better one who's really pushing him.

Giving into temptation is ridiculous -- we're all tempted and we don't all cheat. If nothing else, he likely has poor boundaries. Has he read "Not 'Just Friends'"? That's a good place to start.

MUFan posted 4/26/2013 15:12 PM

We both read NJF. I agree that his boundaries were pretty much non-existant. If he had any he would have never put himself in the position to cheat. We have clearly established boundaries now.
He had 6 weeks of IC.
I guess I just don't see that any amount of brokeness would cause me to cheat. I don't know if any answer to why will ever be good enough to explain why he would do this to someone who he claims to love.
As for released- the IC said he didn't need to see him any more unless something new comes up to resolve.
We do still go to MC. I think I'll work with her on this as well.

[This message edited by MUFan at 3:14 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

sisoon posted 4/26/2013 16:50 PM

As for released- the IC said he didn't need to see him any more unless something new comes up to resolve.

6 weeks? Um, no, IMO. I can see 6 weeks for getting over the pain of having his world crash down around him, but I doubt he's changed much in that time. Hell, it takes 6 weeks just to get a new habit going - and he has to identify current bad habits, break them, decide what new ones he wants, and get the new habits integrated. 6 weeks? No.

My bet is that he's still got a WS mindset. It sounds like the problem is that he has lousy boundaries, but he doesn't recognize that yet - because he has lousy boundaries.

My advice is to continue to work on your own healing and to work on your M, but don't commit to R until he starts rebuilding trust in a big way. By not committing, you're demonstrating a solid boundary, and he might learn from that - so not committing yet may be best for him as well as for you.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:51 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

UndecidedinMA posted 4/26/2013 16:54 PM

I'm not sure because he doesn't know why he cheated.

Then I read 6 weeks? It took my FWSO almost a 6 months to figure out his issues.

He may not know but being weak is not an answer. It takes more to A than to walk away.

Theradin posted 4/27/2013 10:16 AM

It sounds like he isn't putting in the effort to dig into why he did such devastating things to the one he's supposed to love the most.

If I were in your situation, and you truly felt he wasn't trying to 'get better', truly feel remorse, and give 100% to R, then I would start to emotionally distance myself from my WS, and start following the 180 to get myself on track for being healthy and better without that person. That's just me though.

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