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So Im 4 or 5 months out from the first Dday. Couple weeks from the second Dday. Today he says
"I am not a cheat. I do not define myself as that or stand for that. I own I had an affair and I did cheat. But never again and never be such."
Ok, for one he had 2 physical affairs, another one in the making, multiple online sext trysts. Multiple phone sexting buddies. And so on and so forth. Alarm bells are going off in my head, I'm pissed off. So great that he all the sudden has morals and knows what he wants, who he wants to be (If he's being honest with me and himself) But im pissed he is trying to tell me what he is not. I replied "You are not a cheat??..You ARE a wayward..I don't consider you a former wayward." He disagrees. Anyone give me some clarity here?

Is an alcoholic or cocaine addict considered to be recovered the first day or week they stopped using?

I don't think so.

Maybe they are at step one of being fully recovered and committed enough at that point.

Or they're "white knuckling" it, the way I'm "white knuckling" carbs right now, hoping to become a sliver of my current large self.

But only time will tell.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 6:27 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

I often think WS's say this early on so that we will stop asking the tough questions. My WH will often say I will not let my A define me, and I told him I agree but he damn well better take responsibility and own it like it is his.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:35 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

Should I be freaking out about it though? On one hand If he feels confidant enough to feel that way, good right? Logically though it hasn't been much time for a person to truly change their thought processes..maybe. And then there is me, hyper vigilant to having smoke blown up my rear and ready to go on the warpath for something like this.I want him to eat his shit sandwich. Why does he get to have icecream and I have to eat the shit sandwich? He gets an AHha! moment and I get the " oh god, here we go" moment. I feel like im loosing my mind.

If you're only a couple weeks out from Dday #2 then he hasn't had time to do much digging to find his why. In fact I'd bet he hasn't even scratched the surface.

Right now he IS a cheater. Maybe not actively in an A but he'll only be a former when he does the work to find out why. He can say he's not a cheater all hecwants but read here long enough and you'll see one thing (among many) repeated over and over: a wayward's words mean jack shit. It's *actions* that speak volumes.

Yes he deserves to have to eat at least a few huge bites of the shit sandwich he plopped down on your plate. I say this as a FWS myself but like the other formers here I get what you're going through.

So yes, he is a cheat. With all the crap he's doing, he's nowhere near being a former wayward. First rule of R is complete and total NC with *all* APs. This is non-negotiable. No "friends" of the opposite sex for a LONG time, if ever (and *only* if they're friends of the marriage).

You set the rules for R, Jeyana. Tell him what you expect and what you will not tolerate. And follow through on the consequences for non-compliance.

Best of luck to you. You'll get support for whatever choice you make.

He is very,very foggy. I've read your posts,and his,and he does not get what he has done,or why he's done it.

I do believe a wayward can reform and become a former wayward. But that's after they've done alot of hard,painful work on themselves.

I can see why you wouldn't call him a former wayward.

Calling yourself something doesn't make it true. He may want it to be,but he needs to earn that title,IMO.

I also think this argument - I'm a former, no you're not, I am., am NOT... - is a way to evade serious issues about the state of the marriage and how to proceed from here.

Reassurance happens through time, not declaration.

Words are just words and labels are just labels. After infidelity it's action that counts, a remorseful WS will live by their words.

I get this too.. "This does not define me". Oh really? What an amazing self-esteem one must have to say such a thing when the work has not been done (barely in my case). Denial is the worst. Hang in there.d

IMO cheating *does* define a wayward, at least for a time. How long depends on the wayward. If we're remorseful and willing to put in the time and effort to find our why and do the work to fix ourselves then we can discard that definition. But I agree that it takes big, round hairy ones to say it doesn't define us when zero effort has been made to change that definition. The waywards here have changed or are in the process of changing that definition. That's what makes us *former* waywards.