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My fWW has been in a very tough EMT class for the past 4 months. She's studied hard and passed the class today. I very, very happy for her. It's a great accomplishment (especially since she had no medical training before).

She was texting me all day telling me how her 7 practical test were going. She was doing so well, I ran out and got her a dozen roses and balloons. We were going to go out for a congratualatory steak dinner (her favorite) to celbrate.

As class was finishing, she calls and says can she go out for drinks with the class to celebrate? WTF? It never occured to her that I had something planned? She never asked, never thought about it. All she wanted to do was to go out drinking.

I didn't bring up my plans (since they didn't seem to matter) and told her one drink and be home by 7pm. She agreed and hung up.

I've read so much over the past 6 months and a few weeks ago, I realize that she has always been extremely selfish. I looked back and gave her examples during our entire marriage, pre-affair and post-affair. It appears to have gone in one ear and out the other. This is just another example of her doing exactly what she wants. Yeah she did call me and ask permission because she knows I wouldn't say no.

She (and I) have come a long way since the A, but I've been second to the EMT training for the past 6 months. I hope she now realizes that I need to be priority in her life, not anything else.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just so hurt and pissed off.

Dear lord I feel ya man. I do

Sorry you are hurting, SH. I wonder if you should have just told her, when she called, no, pls come home, I want to congratulate you in person. Or, maybe something like, yes, let's make it w party, where should I meet you and your classmates for drinks? One of the hard things I'm still learning is that even when you want the other person to just know what they should do, they don't. I feel for you, I hv been in the same place, where my FWH *should* be able to figure out for himself what I want or need. But he was dense about that before the A, still is to some extnt. Maybe your W is the same?

Hugs to you. I hope you two cn talk it out and feel better about it.

It sounds like her priority is herself and not her M. It also sounds like you don't quite feel safe bringing up your needs to her. I would address this in MC next session.

Sorry, but I would expect my SO to want to celebrate their accomplishments with me....

Did she have 1 and come home?

I'm sorry to hear that. :(

[This message edited by h0peless at 8:17 PM, April 28th (Sunday)]

I've been second to the EMT training for the past 6 months. I hope she now realizes that I need to be priority in her life, not anything else.

A bit of a 2x4 coming...

Do you think she is suddenly now going to put you first since you think she "should?" Selfish people don't change into unselfish people because somebody else thinks they should.

Yeah she did call me and ask permission because she knows I wouldn't say no.

While she may be selfish, it sounds like she absolutely knows that you are supportive of her selfishness and that will bolster her view that she should continue in the same entitled way to put herself first. You need to start with some assertiveness of your own. I think it would have been better to say, "I'm glad you asked. Please don't go out for drinks without me. I have planned something so we can celebrate together. Why does she "know you won't say no?" I think it is time for you to change yourself, remembering of course the only person you can change is yourself, not someone else.

Yeah she did call me and ask permission because she knows I wouldn't say no.

Bro, I was just like you 6 months ago. I found out the hard way that "expecting" the right things to "just happen" will never work. Do yourself a favor and get a book called "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Robert A. Glover. It'll show you why giving in to her and not telling her what you really want/need is the exact opposite of being a "nice guy". It'll also show you how staying in this mind set will slowly eat away at you like a cancer.

Thanks for all the comments. fWW did come home half an hour early and did only have one drink. Seems the group only went out to have one celebratory drink and most were leaving when she did.

I had already made dinner for the kids and I so, we didn't go out.

We talked about it and she says she would have come home if I asked. She also said she wanted to be early, because she didn't want to be coming close or being late.

I know I need to be more assertive. I've always given in to her to make her happy. I'm starting to see that just feeds this behavior. She (we) have changed so much in the relationship area but I see we still have work to do.

She is in IC and we had just started MC when the MC quit practicing due to his wife's health. Now we need to find another one.

PanicAttach, I'll get and read the book.

I'm kind of impressed with your fww for being early. I feel like she actually appreciated the trust you showed her by agreeing she could go for one drink. It seems her way of thanking you was to make sure she was home early and I think that's a fantastic way to show you her appreciation.

If this were my WS, I would have looked at this as a way of showing him that I am proud of him and that I trust him to go out with his peers and make good choices.

I believe that would have added to my H's great mood and I know it would have meant the world to him.

I would have sorted the children out and taken my H out once he got home and celebrated together then.

Why did you cancel your plans instead of just planning them for after 7pm?

Maybe it depends how far along in R you are and how much trust you have restored in your FWS. In my case I'm ready to give my H some space and give him opportunities to show me he can now be trusted again.

I don't know but IMO, there's no reason you couldn't have allowed your wife her one drink and still carry out your wonderful, thoughtful plans and made the day even more special for you fww. Sorry if this sound harsh but it sounds like you were being a little selfish for canceling your plans for your fww because she didn't do what you wanted her to do. You gave her the green light to go have a drink but then you seem to punish her by taking away your planned gift for her.

Please, for the sake of your relationship, tell her what you're really feeling instead of what you feel she wants to hear next time she's asks if you're ok with her doing something or going out somewhere. It will save you from feeling left out or forgotten about.

New habits take time to form and we can't expect our WS to just know what we want or need in every situation. They are still human and are still learning how to be in this new relationship too.

Best wishes.

I wouldn't be pissed off with that particular incident- it would have been different if she hadn't called or been late.

Try being more assertive and see where it gets you- not to cause trouble but just to be honest with her.

Maybe she is being selfish but she isn't going to change unless you bring it up or challenge it.

OW and I85, I did tell my wife I was very proud of her. I tried to be as positive as I could but by the time she got home, I was quite down and a wreck.

I had the kids and they were hungry so I had already made dinner, since I didn't know if she'd be home on time. In the past, she never kept to 'return times'. I guess things are different now. She did very well in the going out for a drink, but it was very traumatic for me since it was the first time since the A.

She has to take a National Exam to get certified in a week or two, we'll celebrate then.

I85, I do need to be more assertive. I know that. In the past I was controlling until the M went bad, then I withdrew. I'm having a tough time finding balance. I have an IC appt in a couple of hours, maybe we'll talk about that.

I'm the same way. I would have said sure, then been upset inside.

Now, I'm learning to hell H what I want and I finally feel good about it because my opinions and needs finally matter. I am no longer putting myself on the back burner.

Good that she stuck by her word, but I can imagine how sad you were...Try to be more honest with your feelings to her. And, tell her.

In the past I was controlling

Are you quite sure about this?

Because, quite often, when you are dealing with a person who puts their own needs first....any type of boundary/need that you voice is labelled as *controlling*, when it really isn't, kwim?

(ps....I'll give you a hint. You mentioned that your fWW knew that you wouldn't say no. FWIW, you don't sound controlling, in the true sense of the word* to me)

On the other side of this....

Is it the norm for you to buy her flowers and balloons? Is it normal for you to celebrate accomplishments in this style?

DH never buys me flowers or makes big deals out of things...so it would never occur to me to go right home thinking he had something planned.

If this was out of your norm, then I would think about giving her the benefit of the doubt and let her know what happened. Don't assume that she didn't want to celebrate with you right away.

Also, EMT exams are hard, and unless you have had to study and be in a job like that, it's really hard to understand the comrade of the people in that field.

The drinks may have been their way of celebrating the passing with each other. Not a slight to you, just a separate "omg its over and we passed" celebration as well for them.

Don't put yourself on the back burner - and say something about the way it made you feel to have her celebrate first with them and THEN with you....but I am willing to bet that she had no idea that what she was doing was hurting you.

In fairness to your wife, she told you what her plans were, she respected your request to have one drink and be home by 7, in fact she was early.

It sounds to me like she is trying. Unfortunately we often fall into that trap of expecting people to know what we want without having to tell them. It doesn't work that way. She didn't know you had plans because you didn't tell her you had plans.

Communication is so important in R. You need to let her know what your needs are. If you felt that her going out would be too hard to deal with, you need to tell her. Please don't tell her one thing and then try to punish her for doing what you agree on. R will go so much smoother if you communicate.

I think you need to tell her that you had made plans to celebrate with her.

I know we want our Ws to just "understand." It doesn't work that way. It ended up with your feelings being hurt and now there is a distance between the two of you. Not a good outcome either.

If you had told her and she went out for a drink anyway, yeah I would take that as a legit "selfish" act. Unspoken expectations are not a good thing.

It happened. You need discuss it with her. She needs to know what you had planned, but ultimately it sounds like a communication breakdown. Discuss it with her so she knows you planned to celebrate the accomplishment as a couple. She needs to know that you had planned a surprise. Don't come at it from the vantage point of you were disappointed in her. Come at it from the vantage point that you were not there to share her successes with her. In other words you made sacrifices (attention, time, child watching, etc.) to facilitate her accomplishment. You would like to have enjoyed some of the moment as well.

WS in general have trouble understanding that things have changed. That means everything has changed. It also means that things have an opportunity to be much better.

SH, I'm sorry. I didn't realize this was the first time your wife went out for drinks since the A. I understand that would be very hard for you.

Just a little advice from my point if view and experience if that's ok. There comes a time in R where you really have to acknowledge the good work your WS is doing in trying to heal your M. I acknowledged that with my H by just giving him a little bit of the rope to show I could try and trust him little by little. He would either prove his trustworthiness or hang himself. Thankfully he's proven he's trustworthy so far and it gives me the courage to give him a little more rope each time.

Celebrate every time she goes out and you cope ok. I use to tell my H, "I'm glad you got to go but I was freaking out the whole time you were gone but I managed to talk myself out of coming there (or calling too much)". My H could see it was hard for me but he appreciated that I was still trying. H would call, SMS, send me photos, tell me to track his iPhone and update me on where he is in return to help me feel safe. That was without me asking him to. Eventually I could tell H on his return that I didn't freak out at all. That's where I finally am now. It takes time but you'll get there with your fww if you're willing to give her a little bit of the rope at a time. As long as she keeps respecting how difficult that is for you and keeps giving you reasons to feel safe to trust her each time.

It's a hard journey I know but hopefully a worthy one.

I don't usually get the flowers and balloons, so she wouldn't have expected that, but traditionally we go out for a celebratory meal for big events. She should have expected that, and she mentioned she came home early in case I had something planned. But by that time the kids were hungry and I didn't know if she would be home on time. In the past, she wouldn't return when she promised.

We are supposed to talk about it tonight.