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Theradin posted 5/2/2013 20:56 PM

My WW and I have been in R for about 3 months now, and a strange thing has been happening lately, that wasn't part of her normal behavior in the past.

We were having a casual conversation over dinner about transparency, etc., and I mentioned an off-comment in response to her saying that she is being totally transparent and open with me. I told her that I still felt a slight bit like she was being secretive in some respects. She asked me to explain, and I told her that I thought it was odd that she deletes all of her sent emails from her Sent folder, and recently (starting a couple/few months ago) started deleting most all of her text messages from her cell phone. Her response about her emails was that she likes being tidy, and has always done that (maybe she has, maybe she hasn't - I don't know cuz I don't check or anything).

When I asked why she deletes most all of her text messages, she got irate and left the room to be alone and cool down. So, I don't have an answer from her at this time, but it still seems weird to me to do that. Keep in mind, she has given me "access" to her phone and email, neither of which, BTW, I have checked because I'm trying to trust her. However, when I do things for her on her phone (e.g., she asks me to reply to someone on a text, or I do an update on her phone IN HER PRESENCE, etc.), I happened to notice that most all of her texts are deleted from people she texts with on a daily basis. It just seemed odd to me because I don't do that at all. There is no sense of being "tidy" by deleting a person's name from the text message list, as it will simply be repopulated in the same fashion upon receiving the next text from them.

Sure, I can understand trying to be tidy by deleting all the sent emails from a sent folder (again, not like it takes of place on your desktop or computer, and there is no quota limit on email box sizes for us, etc.).

So I guess I'm wondering if this is normal behavior? If this is indicative of a transparent, honest and open relationship?

Let me say that I am 99% sure there is NC between her and her AP (or any of the other guys she was having an EA-like behaviors with). But I guess that begs the question, then: Why delete texts and sent emails if there is nothing to hide? No "questionable" behaviors or messages? I guess I wonder that because I have never done that. I have every sent email I've ever sent in my Sent folder (dating back to at least 2007 or 2008), and I also don't delete my texts (they take up absolutely NO room on our model of cell phones, of which we both have the same, with the exception being that I had to delete ALL my texts a couple days ago when my phone kept rebooting on me whenever I tried to send a text. Upon deleting everything and rebooting, the problem has been fixed).

Any thoughts, comments, opinions, advice? Greatly appreciated!

[This message edited by Theradin at 9:00 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

Knowing posted 5/2/2013 21:02 PM

Sorry, deleting messages from the "sent" folder? Are you kidding me? That's a major red flag... I'd address that, if I were you.

losingmyground posted 5/2/2013 21:07 PM

I would let her know that you feel this is her hiding things. And since you did not know about her affair or her need to keep her email tidy, you are asking that she not delete anything. And to do so would be a sign that she is cheating again.

She-Ra posted 5/2/2013 21:11 PM

In my opinion.. She should not be deleting texts or sent items. My BH is like you where he has access to my phone and email but does not check up on me. Now if I was deleting all my texts it would raise red flags. Like why are you hiding them? He knows that he could pick up my phone any time and he could dig into my conversations with my friends. He knows that I could delete stuff and show him what he wants to see but it looks like your WW wants you to see nothing which seems very off to me.

Your Dday count frightens me and the fact she TTd up until a month ago, she is on thin ice to say the least. I don't like her defensive act either. She better count her blessings and treat R as a gift that it is.

Ask her to stop deleting her messages as it will help build trust. If she doesn't like it, show her the door. This is no game and you are being too kind. Make her accountable

absolut posted 5/2/2013 21:12 PM

No it makes no sense.
I am single with no significant other at all.
I never delete texts.
Why bother? Even if it takes two seconds why expend the energy?
Shes clearly hiding something.
And if I were you I would start going through her phone and emails and tell her she cant delete all that stuff, its shady.

mchercheur posted 5/2/2013 21:30 PM

she got irate and left the room to be alone and cool down.

NO NO NO NO NO. That's not how it's supposed to be in R. She is supposed to be offering you her phone, undeleted, to prove to you that she can be trusted.
So sorry to say, but she is hiding something.

AFrayedKnot posted 5/2/2013 21:36 PM

Time for a keylogger. Trust is great but when there is a red flag like that I would need to verify.

brokensmile322 posted 5/2/2013 21:42 PM

^^I agree.

And I will add that maybe she did always delete them before. But you know what? Now she should refrain from her urge to be tidy to prove she is on the up and up.

Hugs!

Rebreather posted 5/2/2013 21:53 PM

I don't understand why you are so sure she isn't in contact, when you don't check up on her. Why would you be trying to trust her this early in, with her history, when she recently was checking out OM's Facebook page?

What she is doing is normal behavior for someone who needs to hide things. Tell her no more. At all.

In addition, her storming out? Classic sign of nonremorse and affair thinking.

Sorry.,

roughroadahead posted 5/2/2013 21:56 PM

Agreed. I only post in R when I see a situation that reminds me of my own this time last year. WH faked transparency for months. I had the password to his work cell (which was how he contacted OW) and access to his work email through the phone. All it meant was that he deleted all contact with OW before he came home. He messed up eventually and forgot, though, and was busted a couple more times.

So, to your question: No. Not normal. Does she clean out her inbox or only the sent? Does she delete the trash folder? Do you have access to the trash folder? Whereas my WH was trying to play it cool and let me see texts to colleagues other than OW so it wasn't too suspicious, yours may be taking a scorched earth approach under the guise of being "tidy". Only you know if this is consistent with her personality generally.

As others have said, even if it has always been her habit, R means she stops now. Maybe she can posptone her deletion until you've looked at her phone. She should be glad to have the opportunity to rebuild trust (that's a lot of d-days!). However, I see a red flag with her getting upset about it. That seems defensive and deflecting.
(((Hugs))). It may be time to go back to investigative mode.

broken81 posted 5/2/2013 22:00 PM

My WH was always one to delete text messages..from everyone.
Since he is being transparent, he now only does it every few days. Its habit for him to delete them. He always did and im sure it was worse during his A. But now he wants me to know who he is sending and recieving texts from.
The deleting of her sent folder is very odd to me. I or WH have never emptied it in the history of email.
I think the biggest red flag of all is her reaction to you questioning it. get a keylogger and see if she is hiding something or still has some wayward thinking.

5454real posted 5/2/2013 22:09 PM

If she likes it tidy, why can't you help with that. Leave them until you have a chance til you can delete them for her. The end result will be the same.

Sorry bro, either she is still in the fog or the A has gone underground.

Transparency is not giving you a pre-cleaned phone. My guess would be her next step would be a hidden E-mail account tied into a pre-paid phone. She will probably abide your request in some fashion to placate you though.

Keylogger and vigilance. She should be offering you every text she receives.

The only privacy in a marriage is closing the bathroom door.

IMO

Lulu38 posted 5/2/2013 22:50 PM

I always used to delete my texts, it just bugged me seeing them all there. Now, post A, I don't delete anything.

Until recently, I would put emails I was done with from my in box into the trash folder. Then I realized that the trash folder empties itself every so often. So I made my own trash folder that I can put stuff in so it won't disappear (so BH can look if he wants), and it keeps my inbox tidy.

FeelingSoMuch posted 5/2/2013 22:55 PM

I'm sorry. To me deleting texts and emails is a red flag. Becoming defensive and storming out is a second red flag.

I only say this because my WW did exactly that and she was hiding messages from me.

Since getting caught, ending the A and attempting recovery she doesn't delete any more.

Hearthache again posted 5/2/2013 22:56 PM

(((Theradin)))

I have to agree with everyone else. Red flags!

musiclovingmom posted 5/2/2013 23:14 PM

I shared just the first couple of paragraphs of this post with my H (who lied and cheated for months, including taking one relationship underground). His exact words: 'she's still hiding something'.
Besides being 'transparent' (and I use that word very loosely based on what you've written), what else is your W doing to R your marriage?

Theradin posted 5/3/2013 07:29 AM

Wow! Thank you so much, everyone, for replying and sharing your thoughts and opinions on this. Sometimes, I really don't know what I'd do without SI.com.

Here's an update on our situation. I explained to my WW that although she likes to be tidy and clean up her email, I think I would feel more comfortable if we met in the middle on this. So, she'll continue to move items to the trash, but will no longer empty the trash. That way, she can still be tidy by keeping a clean Inbox, Sent folder, etc., but the Trash folder will be no longer be emptied.

In terms of deleting text messages, after calming down, she explained to me that she started doing it with her new cell phone because she didn't want to "bog it down with a lot of text messages because it's a new phone and she wanted to really keep it in good condition and not have a lot of texts negatively affect its performance". Our cell phones have a ton of memory and processing power (Samsung Galaxy S3), and this is not an issue whatsoever, so I explained that to her, and she said she would no longer delete her text messages, too.

I also told her that I don't delete my Sent folder or text messages, and to be fair, at any time she can look at mine. In fact, I encourage her to do so, so she sees that the road goes both ways with us, in terms of transparency, openness, etc.

So, in short summary: No more clearing out the Trash or Sent folder (but still keeping the Inbox tidy), and no more deleting text message threads.

Thanks again for all your support on here - it really means so much to me to not feel alone and totally confused with how I feel about behaviors while we work through R!!

jellybean22 posted 5/3/2013 08:14 AM

Huge red flag IMO. When my WH was in the midst of his EA, he had the same excuse. He didn't like having lists of calls/texts on his phone. And that wasn't it at all. He was deleting everything to hide his three hour phone calls to his AP.

He doesn't delete anything off his phone now. Of course, he gets all pissy when I check it without him present. But that's another post.

sri624 posted 5/3/2013 09:59 AM

when i was in false r with my wh husband, whenever i would check his phone...the call logs would be deleted...and emails too. i learned when the truth all came out that he had been cheating the whole time.

i am not saying that she is cheating...but deleting anything is a red flag.

roughroadahead posted 5/3/2013 10:18 AM

Do you have access to the phone bill? It won't solve the email problem, but it is a way to make sure she is not deleting her texts selectively. The email is much tougher, as again, she can remove emails selectively from the trash folder and I'm not sure how you'd find out without a key logger.

I also don't buy her excuse regarding the texts and slowing down the phone. I would still be cautious.