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I am meeting WS at marriage counseling with the counselor we have seen off and on for 5 years and he has been seeing for IC for 8 months. He told the counselor last month that he had been in an EA and apologized for not being honest with him.

He says he wants to work things out but we have a lot of negative history from before the affair. Most of it centers around his dishonesty. He says he is just too afraid to speak the truth. He is afraid I will hurt his feelings with my words. I try to be honest, kind, empathic, and do the best I can to communicate. His lieing drives me crazy though. I have called him names and gotten super emotional after trying to communicate how he hurts me when he puts so much as a priority over me, seeks to please others while letting me down, and not supporting me in disciplining the kids who are into drugs. He gets defensive and makes excuses. I get frustrated and lose my temper. He doesn't seem to get that I am a real person with real feelings.

I'm afraid of counseling today because I don't want to do anything like separate or divorce right now. Too much stuff is going on in our lives with our kids and ourselves. I hope the counselor doesn't push it. (I do feel hopeless that we are going to be able to reconcile but I don't want to face that yet.)

[This message edited by LearningToFly at 5:24 PM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Good luck Learning. Maybe try some of the 180? Try to put your stuff on the backburner and listen listen to him and his stuff. Be understanding, kind, sympathetic. Sometimes you get back what you give but unfortunately you have to give it first. Be the example of who you would like him to be for you.

Hugs and strength.

We went to counseling.

I read his "love poem" to the OW to the Doctor. He gave it to her when they said goodbye so he could work on our marriage. The doctor wanted to be sure he was okay with me reading it but he didn't speak up for himself. I know he was not okay with it.

I also brought the two short notes he was supposed to write to the OW. The Doctor said they weren't enough and challenged him on his language. (We "should" have no more contact.) was not clear enough. Husband said he would write a third letter.

After the session my husband said he needed to be alone and would walk home. I was disappointed because I had hoped that he would apologize to me for goofing off with weak letters for a week and a half and tell me he was really serious about reconciling.

I came home and decided to go out a half hour later (trying to be independent and take care of myself). Husband was downstairs and asked what I was doing. I said going out for awhile. When I got back he was gone. No note. I think he feels that he needs to let me know he can go out by himself too. Of course I am wondering if he is trying to contact OW, pouting, or what. He certainly isn't trying to be there for me. I wish so much that he would be there for me sometimes. Even in counseling, I am told to be there for him over and over. He's like a child.

It doesn't seem like he wants to put out effort to make me feel safe with him. He is still defensive and angry when he is called on his behavior. I have twangs of guilt for not staying home after finding out he was back. Then I think, he could have found me in the house and let me know he was home. Instead he was on his computer downstairs. To feel safe, I need for him to be reaching out to me, initiating positive contact and letting me know he is serious about wanting to be with me. I have a year and a half worth of his emails to his girlfriend saying that he wanted to be with her. He wants me to just let it go and move on. I don't believe that if I do that anything will change. I think he still wants to be with her.

((( learning ))))

He certainly has his own issues to work through with his pattern of lying, and dishonesty to the person he should be closest to, and feel the safest with.

He also is not taking any ownership of what he has done, is doing. He is not taking the appropriate steps to R. I say find a new conselor, because you HAVE been there for him, and look at where that got you. Yah he's broken, and has some deep issues blah blah blah, but it's time to be a grown up and start to really deal with it.

I so know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you take care of you, and wonder if that is going to "push" him to go to the OW. I struggled with this a LOT early on, esp when NC was broken repeatedly.

I finally realized that I cannot control what he did/does. He knows it's the wrong thing to do, to contact OW, but if he chooses to, then he is not only hurting me, but himself, and I could no longer live with that behavior. (Thus the keylogger and finding out that he yet again contacted her and throwing his A** out and him rapidly defogging and getting it at that point). You can no longer mollycoddle him. You need to demand the respect you deserve. If he can't do that, and you can't S or D now, then implement the 180 with full force.

(((and strength)))

He says he is just too afraid to speak the truth. He is afraid I will hurt his feelings with my words.

Umm, this is bullshit. I'm sorry but what about hurting you with his actions? Where's the ownership of that? You getting emotional, crying, yelling, whatever it is, what does he expect? He CHEATED!! He destroyed your world and *HE'S* worried about getting hurt?!?

I know you said you're not ready to think divorce or separation, and that's ok, but you can still take care of yourself. Please do.

First, I would not be at all comfortable continuing MC with a man who is not remorseful. I especially would not be comfortable doing so with the counselor that non-remorseful man has been seeing for IC.

Instead, I'd find a great IC for myself.

In your shoes, I would become very familiar with the 180. You can find it here (it's #11 in the FAQs for BSs):

http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

You can't change him. You can't change the way he thinks, feels, or acts.

You can, however, detach enough to really observe his actions to see if they are consistent with reconciliation.

Right now, his behavior is completely inconsistent with it. That may change---only you can decide how long you are willing to wait and see if this is going to occur.

Not all WSs are willing or able to make changes consistent with reconciliation.

Yours may be---or he may not be. The only way to know is to pull back and observe what is real and true, not what you wish.

Millions of hugs to you.

solos sto

You are right.

I don't completely understand the 180 but I like the picture of pulling back enough to see if the actions of my spouse are truly ones of reconciliation.

He has always been selfish so its hard to see if he is trying the best he can or not. He is trying, thats for sure, but I am not sure of his motivation or desires at the moment.

He certainly isn't doing as much as I would like to see to assure me that he is serious or that he wants to be honest and transparent.