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I'm writing again for advice. The divorce papers are signed and submitted to court. My WAW is in her new apartment. I'm still a mess and going through it. I still dream about her at night and I get vivid flash backs of her in the apartment. I still dont' have all the answers/Details and we have tentative plans to go to a joint therapy session mid june. Everyone I know tells me not to do it, that she'll get satisfaction from it and I'll still feel like shit afterwards. I'm desperately trying to remain NC and I post here or email two friends I have a pact with before I attempt to contact her.

Basically it comes down to 2 questions I have that I can't stop thinking about. One is if she's living with her new boyfriend and if she's pregnant. The second is the one I can't stop thinking of. It's about conversation details between her and the OM:
The weekend before she left while I was away on a work trip she spent 7 hours total on the phone with this new guy. She never talks to anyone on the phone for that long. I am dying to know what went down during these conversations because right after them she decided to leave me. I keep thinking about it everyday, I try not to but it always comes back on my mind. It is the main reason why I want to have a therapy session with her.
I want to call her everyday and ask her about it. I keep making up my own scenarios and my hope is that knowing the truth about it will stop me from trying to figure out what happened.

What sucks is that I have no closure and I want to express myself to either my WAW or the OM but I know that it will satisfy them more than it would satisfy me. So I feel stuck because I can't express my feelings to the people that they're about. I had no choice in the ending of my marriage and I had no voice in this decision either.

Some friends I talk to are surprised I never contacted the other man but I go back and forth about it. I don't feel it will amount to much or do anything for me except piss me off further.

Does anyone have advice on whether I should try to find out the details of these conversations, go to a joint therapy session or just try really hard to let this shit go?

I can't get it out of my head!

So the D is all but final, right?

Ask yourself this - what if she IS living with the new boyfriend? Does that change anything? And if she's not? Does it impact your life in any way, truly? Or is it "just" curiosity? What would either answer gain you?

And if she's pregnant? Is there a chance it would be yours? If not, what difference would it make in your life? Truly?

Is there anything she could say that would help you? If so, make that your assumption, and move on.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as closure. It's some mythical state where every question is answered and all the pieces fall into place, and you can wrap the experience up in a tidy bundle and stick it on a shelf somewhere. Life just doesn't work like that.

Even if she were willing to tell you her full truth, what makes you think it would bring you closure? Her perceptions and her truths brought you to where you are now. I can't see any benefit in opening yourself up again to be hurt by her. Again.

I don't have any worthwhile advice because I'm still attempting R. I'm on this thread because I'm considering D.

I'm preparing myself to deal with that. If we do D, then I have to let her go, whatever her choices.

Easier said than done. If she goes to somebody else, then she goes to somebody else. I'll do whatever feels right for me.

Yes, incredibly tough to actually do.

I'd post, but NIK already summed up what I would said.

I agree with her post word for word.

NIK - Thank You for this. It's exactly what I needed to hear right now.

Her perceptions and her truths brought you to where you are now. I can't see any benefit in opening yourself up again to be hurt by her. Again.

I now have more strength to remain NC.

I'm glad it helped, Waits.

Your energies and thoughts are YOURS now. When you are ready to focus forward, on building your new life step by step, stop over in the New Beginnings forum. There's a great network there of folks (like me) who will help you as you start on the next part of your journey.

And just to be sure there's no misunderstanding, NB is NOT all about dating. There are people in NB who are out there in new relationships, but there are a whole lot who are working on themselves.

I agree with NIK. I don't think there is such a thing as closure either. It seems to be defined here as some kind of super magical words that will somehow cause all this shit to make sense and then we'll feel all better about getting stabbed in the back. I don't think there are words that magical in existence! It seems to me the more words you hear, the more you get hurt.

The advice I got here and that I've always recommended to others, is to strive for accepting what has happened to you, accepting that it won't ever make sense, and move on from there. Eventually you will get to the point where you no longer care about reasons why because it doesn't matter anymore. (full disclosure - I'm not there yet, but I can see it from here )

I think you should skip a joint therapy session with her - why put yourself through that pain? Why do you think she will even show up, and if she does, that she would say one damn thing that would help you? Most of the WS that leave for OM/OW do nothing but blame the BS for everything and my guess is that you would get a huge load of that shit. My advice is to stay away from her - total NC. NC = no new hurts.

HI Waits,

As I have a bit of the same going through my head, I thought I would write and echo your sentiments exactly as written nicely on another thread: "You are not alone".

My mind is like a reel of film that I can stop sometimes and not other times. I've been praised for my skills and self - knowledge, not to horn-toot, so this baffles me and angers me as well. The mind movies began again recently and had gone for a while. But since there's another thread with that I don't want to repeat it all.

There were also things about your concern if your W is pregnant that parallel the situation STBXH has created. He acted so strangely and I know that As make people do that, but there were snippets of conversation we had over time that make me suspicious that OW could have had an OC with him...and it is a huge trigger.

I have asked him about it politely, and I have confronted him in heated moments and he sticks with the story that there is no OC and he has only the children with me...but there have been soooo many lies for soooo long, right to my face, how to know?

I suppose that time will tell, as the saying goes and for you as well.?

I'm on the fence about your Mc plan. I can understand it but am worried for you having more hurt to process or wasted money and time if she opts to lie and be dishonest or not show up. I'm impressed that you got her to go-STBXH would have nothing to do with it, but he would have truth to face if he did, so it was no surprise.

I, too, am suffering through no contact and it feels like an addiction withdrawl...it's really, really terrible! What I remember the most, even though it causes pain to cycle, is the pain he causes. Chances are any contact will create more pain, no matter what I would have to say or ask...there is plenty of material, but I'm finally not willing and starting to groan if I do see a message from him.

And I don't know about you, but I get little bits of panic prior to possible ineractions with STBXH, so I am in this horrible place where I live the grief day and night, minute by minute missing the person he used to be, but finally getting the NC idea.

Also, we're in D proceeding now and he is so dramatic I wouldn't put it past him to make up complaints about my contacting him or OW complaining or both...a big deal for me is that I don't want to give them ammo for D or themselves to laugh at me more.

When I am not struggling with the mind movies, I find myself going through this awful memory lane period. Things from 20 years ago are surfacing, some good, some bad. I turn to the bad to try to stop the reels, but then there comes the grief.

IC said this is part of the mourning period and it has no time limit and it can relapse.

I hope that you can continue NC and hope that some little thing I wrote may help. It remains a struggle for me as well, as I said. I'm glad you have the people to help you and that's partly why I come on SI so often. I can work on stuff and ask questions but it's neutral and friendly.

"Closure" is for movies and novels, not real life.

My Ex agreed to a MC session after that I thought was a last ditch attempt to save our marriage. However he had already decided he was divorcing me, but hadn't admitted as much to me. Once we got there he revealed that HIS agenda for the counseling session was to help me "accept" the divorce he planned to file for.

I was angry that I had been tricked into wasting my time and money. I got no "satisfaction" from anything my Ex said, although a tiny satisfaction from the counsellor agreeing with me that his behavior had been unacceptable for a married man.

My opinion is: NO the counseling is not going to be worth it to you.

If you are paying alimony predicated on her living alone, then it's worth it financially to find out if she's living with someone. Hire a private detective, because you already know you can't trust what she says. If there's no alimony then let it alone.

WE are listening though and WE care what you have to say.

IMHO stay NC. All you are going to do is torture yourself more with MC or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish by doing that. She signed the divorce papers already. This is your life now. I had no choice either so I know what you're feeling. You need to get off the torture table first and foremost. THAT should be your priority, not counseling with her. Fact is your WW is emotionally gone. Sucky thing is there is nothing you can do about it now. I struggled with that for a long time. I had suicidal thoughts over it, so I've been there. People kept telling me...acceptance will fall into place. I never thought it would but it has. Do I like it?...no. Do I have a choice?...no. The best thing for you to do is let her live her life. Let her figure out her mistakes. You can't figure it out for her. I think you already know this deep down inside. Yes it's the hardest pill to swallow. The flashbacks and emotions will begin to die down as you carve out your new life and begin to care about only yourself. Key thing is to keep busy. There is no closure like people are saying here. The only type of closure is acceptance. And that takes a long while. It doesn't happen overnight. But little by little you will find it stings less and less. Read my tagline and it's how it is. There just is no other way.

Your thinking is like worrying about what happened to your leg after it's been amputated...

WB