SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We talked about, among many things, that men, when they see an attractive woman think "I wonder what she looks like naked" or " I wonder what shed be like in bed?"

And that most guys talk about women like that. That its look but don't touch but its ok to talk about women and what they'd like to do to them.

This makes me sick.

True?

Guy here. Yes, it's true more or less. But remember men are visual creatures. It's in our nature, it's biological.

For example, it's been proven that women with large breasts are more fertile. Hence men have a predisposition to be attracted to large breasts.

Not excusing it, just pointing out that it is more than trivial behavior.

This is disgusting and makes me sick as well.

If I ever heard my fiancé talking in such a way, even if he was just joking around with the guys, I would smack the shit out of him.

Lord only knows what happens behind my back.

For example, it's been proven that women with large breasts are more fertile.

I don't think that's an actual thing.

rachelc,

Not all guys wonder what a woman looks like naked or what she'd be like in bed. And, the definition of attractive is different for everyone and also changes over time.

When it comes to talking about women, not all guys talk like that. Not all guys think "it's okay to look but not touch." Taking it further, it isn't okay to talk about women and what they'd like to do to them.

Some actively work to make sure guys don't degenerate to that level.

Sounds more like overcompensating Freshman in High School guy talk to me. There are plenty of guys out there who are a bit more evolved than that.

LOL yeah I don't think breast size correlates with fertility. Waist-to-hip ratio, yes. Boobies, no.

I am pretty sure my H and his friends talk about women although I don't know how crass they get. My brother and his friends are worse than what you wrote in your OP.

True?

No. But if it is in your H's case, he needs to start hanging out with different men.

How disrespectful, to women AND men.

Some of my mates do but not all of them- if I'm involved it's usually in a more humourous way- I can't resist a good one liner!!

I don't look at women like that in general- probably did when I was 15/16 though.

Some women talk like that too though- I've heard them!!

Not to argue the point but...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4953-barbieshaped-women-more-fertile.html

Barbie-shaped women more fertile

00:01 05 May 2004 by Shaoni Bhattacharya

Large-breasted, narrow-waisted women have the highest reproductive potential, according to a new study, suggesting western men's penchant for women with an hourglass shape may have some biological justification.

Women with a relatively low waist-to-hip ratio and large breasts had about 30 per cent higher levels of the female reproductive hormone estradiol than women with other combinations of body shapes, found Grazyna Jasienska, at Jagiellonian University in Krakow, Poland and colleagues.

Two of the team, Peter Ellison and Susan Lipson at Harvard University in the US, have previously shown that higher levels of estradiol are indeed related to higher fertility in women trying to get pregnant.

"If there are 30 per cent higher levels, it means they are roughly three times more likely to get pregnant," Jasienska, a human biologist, told New Scientist.

"In Western societies, the cultural icon of Barbie as a symbol of female beauty seems to have some biological grounding," concludes the team. "I would be the last person to propagate Barbie," Jasienska notes wryly. "But when you think about the hourglass shape, Barbie is sort of the symbol."

Universal feature

The team studied 119 Polish women aged between 24 and 37, who were not taking any kind of hormonal contraception or medication. Women who were extremely underweight or overweight were not included.

Saliva samples taken from the women revealed that those with narrow waists and large breasts had on average 26 per cent higher levels of the hormone 17-b-estradiol, than women of other shapes. In the middle of their menstrual cycle, this peaked at 37 per cent higher levels than women in other groups.

Waist-to-hip ratio also had a strong effect on levels of another female hormone, progesterone. Jasienska, says that higher progesterone levels should also theoretically translate to increased fertility. However, large breast size was not significantly related to increased progesterone.

Jasienska says that a preference for low waist-to-hip ratios is a "universal feature" in psychological studies of men. "It was interesting to see what we observed in psychological studies has some biological background," she says.

Androgenous models

"The results are extremely intriguing," says Maryanne Fisher, a psychologist at York University in Toronto, Canada, whose study of Playboy centrefolds over 50 years revealed a drift in Western men's tastes.

She points out an ongoing debate over the relative importance of waist-to-hip ratio and body mass index (BMI) as features used by men to judge female attractiveness. She says women who have a "great" waist-to-hip ratio may not necessarily be attractive if they also have a high BMI.

Fisher's study of Playboy centerfolds showed that over 50 years men's preferences had moved from voluptuous to more androgenous models who had higher WHR but were thinner.

Jasienska notes that some non-Western societies do not use the same measurements of female attractiveness. In cultures which value large women, size may be a more important indicator of nutrition and health and therefore fertility, she says.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the Royal Society B (DOI: 10.1098/rspb.2004.2712)

Objectifying women (as sexual objects) is a slippery slope for a WS. It's something I brought up with fWH, because I'd caught myself doing it in regards to men. I became aware that I classify all men in my head as "fuckable" or not. We talked about that mind-set and he admitted that he also does it at times, but since DDay was starting to try and change that mental habit.

There was a study that showed that in North America there were 6 widely acknowledged markers of beauty: large eyes, small nose, large lips, long (blonde) hair, large breasts & big hips. And through this study they showed that you could still be ugly as a troll but if you had those 6 "markers of beauty" men would "look".

A few months ago,I asked WH if,when he saw a pretty girl,he wondered what she looked like naked,and how she was in bed.

"Of course! Don't all men?"

I told him...no. Not all men do this. Some are actually faithful in their minds,as well as with their body.

IMO..looking at another person and undressing them with your eyes,and imagining yourself having some form of sex with them is disrespectful to your spouse..and a form of cheating.(I admit,I may just be super sensitive...I know alot of people say it's ok to fantasize...but my WH takes it beyond fantasy).

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:31 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

I think it's different types of men- I'm not particularly sensitive or sweet but I don't view women like that- not even in my head. I was thinking it might be like how some men like strippers and lapdancing- I hate it- I went to a strip club once, sat for 5 minutes thinking how I bet the women hate the men in there and probably wish their dicks would fall off- then I went outside and rang my wife, talked about the awesome day I'd had in Amsterdam and how the strippers were scaring me!! I do like burlesque though but I see it as an art.

Women aren't sex objects just like men aren't. It's not OK for women to grab my junk just because they're over 50 and they're drunk on a hen do!! Same argument.

Oddly enough, the men that he mentioned were all co- workers, some talking about their customers. More sad, my husband is the boss. I can't believe he is allowing this...

And, one of the guys wants to go out for a drink with him tonight.

I believe it's cheating in the head as well....

IMO..looking at another person and undressing them with your eyes,and imagining yourself having some form of sex with them is disrespectful to your spouse..and a form of cheating

I guess that would make me a WS - however I do completely understand how you may feel this way given all that we are put through as BS.

I do think for many men this is just natural type thoughts. As long as it is not obsessive or the man doesn't have SA issues that they are dealing with it is not a problem. Many woman do this as well. I don't really think it is problem that my WW has these type of fantasies in her mind on occasion.

I will say that in a work environment I don't consider it proper conduct to be talking with fellow employees about that type of stuff. That is really out of line.

Yeah, I knew that comment might upset some people. As I said,maybe Im super sensitive because of my situation.

But..really? If a man looks at a woman and undresses her with his eyes,and is thinking"Damn I'd like to fuck that..I wonder if she's limber..look at those breasts..look at that ass...mmmhhhmm...I would like to fuck her"....then yeah...that's not exactly faithful.In MY opinion.

We talk about mental NC for a WS when it comes to their AP. I think this is similar. A man doesn't *have to* fantasize about random women,"normal" or not. Hell, there are quite a few studies that say that monogamy isn't normal,but we all expect it..don't we?

Yes..that's right...not only do I want my WH to be faithful...but I don't want him looking at women and thinking about having sex with them...even if he doesn't make any move towards them.

Yup...Im a dreamer....

WH told me that once, a few months after Dday, he went out for lunch with a group of male coworkers. The lunch discussion among the other men was about how much they "would like to do OW" (WH thinks nobody @ work knows about him & OW.) On Dday, WH had stated that OW was "the hottest girl at work."

WH stated that he said to them

"Would it be worth losing your wife & family to do her?"

I agree, that if a person is fantasizing what it would be like to "do" someone, it is a slippery slope.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 6:34 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

The breast thing is just one more bullshit excuse men use for lusting after big tits lol

My mother was very small breasted and was pregnant 7 times, so am I have been pregnant 6 times and if WS hadn't gotten a vasectomy over 12 years ago who knows how many times I would have been,,men make me sick lol

A handful of studies are not biological proof, though. There is some correlation, but pushing random pedals you find on the floor of a vehicle doesn't make the vehicle move forward despite the correlation that nearly all vehicles that move forward do so when a pedal is pressed.

Neither is it any kind of rational justification for behaving like a boor. Were that so we could all conceivably perch on our chairs at staff meetings and hoot, jack off and throw poop around while we discussed RIPng and its viability in an IPv6 Network. Sometimes IT may look like that from the outside but you're not going to keep your job. Though believe it or not that has been discussed as a corporate exit strategy more than once.

That said, I occasionally look at a woman and wonder what she looks like naked, though I occasionally look at trees and wonder if they're planning to eat me. I don't think congregations and conversations regarding what size a womans nipples are or if she likes to wear a cowboy hat during sex is normal conversation topic. Most conversations I've overheard or participated in along those lines tend to be "Wow she's hot/Nice rack/I'd love to hit that" kind of thing.

eta:

As for imagining fucking someone else equating to cheating, I strongly disagree. Unless you want to also argue things like imagining running off to a desert island without any kids to wake you up as equal to child abandonment, there is a distinction between fantasy and reality.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 6:39 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

Most conversations I've overheard or participated in along those lines tend to be "Wow she's hot/Nice rack/I'd love to hit that" kind of thing.

I just don't think married men should be speaking like this...

the fantasy is part of the slippery slope.