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catwrangler posted 5/15/2013 00:16 AM

It's been a few months since I last posted on here. WW has been back just over 3 months now, after having been seperated for a couple of months before that. It took a month before she really went NC (tried to be "just friends" in secret), and then after finding out about that got more trickle truth for another couple of weeks.

Now I think she's really all here. We did a lot of HB. She got pregnant and miscarried a couple weeks ago. I've been trying to support her but it's been a very confusing time. When she got pregnant I took it as sort of a sign that things were going to work out and that I needed to let go of the hurt and focus on our future and our children's future. Now, with the miscarriage, the old hurt is back. I'm worrying again about what she's doing when we're apart. A part of me keeps wondering if I wouldn't ultimately be happier with someone else, somebody who hadn't broken me into pieces and cheated and lied for years. I find myself noticing things little like her not showing very much affection in my opinion, and I see that as a big warning sign that something's up again, even though there's probably not anything going on.

Everybody says that a marriage is worth saving. How do you know that it is?

FeelingSoMuch posted 5/15/2013 00:35 AM

I'm not going to be much help. I'm going through a similar situation. I just want you to know you're not alone.

Stay strong.

integritymatters posted 5/15/2013 02:39 AM

Now I think she's really all here.

My/Our best friend's advise that proved to be the most helpful for me during the dark and confusing days was:

"It's not change you need to be looking for, it's consistent change"

Knowing posted 5/15/2013 06:41 AM a side note, your post reminded me of my discovery in IC recently. I have this defence mechanism where I envision the worst happening and I become convinced of it and I replay it over and over in my mind for years. I do this because I believe some forethought or foreknowledge will protect me or buffer me in the event that my worst fear transpires. And as it turns out this faulty defence mechanism does not provide a buffer at all, the pain of DDay was not in any way lessened by years of being convinced my fWH would cheat someday. All it did was rob me of my day to day experience tainting otherwise happy moments all those years.

I mentioned this because you also mention an aspect of "fantasy" in your thinking. Fantasizing has also been one of those faulty defence mechanisms I've indulged in all my life.

LA44 posted 5/15/2013 07:18 AM

If R is something you really THINK you want then I would repreat Integritymatters statement - Consistent change.

If its not consistent you are fearful of trusting and always questioning.

Also, and I am saying this VERY GENTLY bc its a sensitive matter but... bringing a new life into a very confusing time in your lives might be something that works against you RIGHT NOW. You saw it as a "sign" to move on. I don't know that recovery of A's work that way. You need to see the work, the effort, the consistency (there's that word again!) before you get to a place where you feel you are ready to move forward as a couple AND bring a baby into the world.

Now she is in pain from the miscarriage (as are you) but you are still in pain from the A. Complicated.

Work through the A first. Work on the fears, doubts and insecurities and unbeautiful parts - first.

I wish you well.

brokenniceguy posted 5/15/2013 09:26 AM

So maybe someone can give examples of the consistent change they've seen.

I seem to struggle with this but can't figure it out because I don't specifically know what it is. There are days that are okay but sometimes I think it's just due to how I start off, not anything she did.

It helps when she starts the conversation versus me. It helps when sorry comes out of the blue versus the conversation going towards a spot when sorry is about the only way to end it. I'm pretty sure NC is working and it's over and other BS probably knows enough to be asking questions on her end.

However, sometimes I just sit there and think I need to see and feel something from my WS but don't know what it is. Sometimes I think I should ask for a gift or tell her I'm starting a new hobby, but I don't think that would work and they would only become triggers. I like the hobbies I have, why start something new.

I feel like I need to see the "A" game but can't really say what it is.

I struggle when she starts the day and seems to not recognize what has happened but at the same time we can start every day on the memory of the bad past.

So what is the consistent change others have seen and felt that moves us past the uncertainty?

sisoon posted 5/15/2013 11:22 AM

Not all Ms are worth saving. You and your W get to decide which kind yours is. Ultimately, IMO an M is worth saving if you and W want to save it and are willing to do the necessary work.

I'm sorry for your terrible loss, but I think you'd be going through the same thoughts/feelings/issues whether or not our W had become pregnant and whether or not the baby was healthy.

I believe a healed FWS is a better bet for a long term M than a new person, so it's worth working on R, if you want R. If the A is a deal breaker, though, the M should probably end, the sooner the better.

But that's all just logic. What are you both doing to heal?

You're ambivalent. Are you in IC? IC can help you sort out your thoughts and feelings and come to a decision that's best for you. IC can also help you process the feelings of grief rage, and fear that come with being betrayed.

How about your W? Does she answer your questions honestly? Does she keep you informed of her whereabouts and companions? Is she in IC to change the thoughts and feelings that allowed her to cheat?

How are you communicating? If you're not, or if you think you need to do better, MC could be useful.

As a BS (FBS?), my concern is with you more than with your W. I urge you to focus on yourself - what you want, what you need - and not on your W at this point.

LA44 posted 5/15/2013 13:16 PM

Brokenniceguy, since you asked and since it may help Catwrangler, or someone else I will post what I think are examples of bold]consistent change. Normally, I would start a new topic bc I don't want to take away from CW's question but since this is all related here goes....

About 3 months in, we read Gary Chapman's 5lovelanguages. It's easy and its excellent. This gave my H a clearer idea as to how I NEEDED to be loved. It also did the same for me for him.

My love languages are Affirmation - "you look great", "thanks for dinner", "boys, your mother does so much to help you every day." and Acts of Service: Emptying the dishwasher, cleaning up the yard, making coffee. Since we have read this book my H has CONSISTENTLY spoken my love language thus filling up my "love tank". I have done the same for him but I have to say - he is taking the lead bc he knows he broke the insides of me. Still. If I want to R, I have to work on this too. I urge you to give this book a try. You can both take a very quick quiz on his web site by the same name. Try it tonight!

In terms of consistent remorseful behavoiur....when we talk, he listens patiently and answers questions, he says I am sorry (but yes, like you, I prefer that he just say it out of the blue every now and then). He goes to IC on a regular basis. He reads something I ask him to read. He bought and read, After the Affair by Janis Spring. I read it next. You see...he is taking the lead. Owning it.

In the past few days he has: hugged me many x/day, told me he loves me many x/day, asked me if I am bothered by something, done the laundry, prepped the coffee, contacted a landscaper for some issues we are having around here. He could not stop "wowing" me when I put on a new nightie (if that is what you want to call it), he left a card in my van. He holds my hand when we fall asleep at night. Sometimes he just grabs my hand walking down the street.
Maybe you are thinking, "what does prepping coffee and hand holding have to do with being consistent?" It says to me, I see you. I know what you want. I am here for you.

I can only say that these things work for me in repairing the damage. They help me feel seen and heard and loved.

And if you WANT something from her - let her know. I always wanted my H to just know what I needed. Well guess what? They don't.

Give the book a try. There are a few easy exercises at the back to help break the ice and get you started.

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by LA44 at 1:30 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

DixieD posted 5/15/2013 13:36 PM

Catwrangler, I'm glad you came back. I was wondering how you were doing.

The only thing I would add is that the recovery time for betrayal is often said to be 2-5 years. 2-5 YEARS! You cannot rush this. It takes as long as it takes. You cannot bypass steps in the process and expect to heal.

People also say it's a rollercoaster and they are correct. Your emotions will be all over the place and change from day to day for a long time to come.

They also say not to make a decision for 6 months if you can. So you give yourself some time to adjust to the trauma you've experienced. That doesn't mean from the day your W and you separated, but from the day of the last TT.

It's different for everyone. For many it is a deal-breaker. I think the key is how hard your WS is willing to work at it and show you they've changing for the better and support you through this mess that they created. Without that, no it's not worth it.

Good luck.

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 1:42 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

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