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How rotten & How deep?

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BrokenBill posted 5/18/2013 05:55 AM

How rotten? How deep?

So my wife has had 2 full blow sexual/emotional affairs (she admitted to as i have the proof) and started a 3rd as the second was fading. Going on right under my nose, in our house, in our bed, in our pool. She has seen ex boyfriends on trips away (kept secret from me), left a string of phone numbers i can't identify and look very suspicious(area code+time of call+duration). She has a second sim card/cell number (secret pay as you go type), a second email address (secret) that i can't access. A second Skype address. Also, I found phone numbers jotted on boarding passes, credit card payments, "cookies" form sex chat forums on her laptop. A stash of gifts, photos, thongs, fishnet stockings, sexy underwear a vibrator (used!)... and that's all I found! so there IS more!

All this from a wife who's your classic good girl, friendly but quiet in nature, never been so keen on sex or intimacy. A wife who's value system is women's rights, equality, integrity, honesty and transparency (both work and personal). Someone who i respected greatly for her beliefs and stood behind, supported and looked up to for it.

Need i say, D-Day was also Mind-Fuck Day. I had to read (shout)a sexually explicit letter from one of her lovers to her in order for her to admit to the affair(s). Even while i read it she was looking at it like: who me, what, i can explain, you don't understand!!!?
So the horror for me is still only creeping in bit at a time. I have not had the strength to read that whole letter, 2 pages worth, it's so toxic.

So if all that's not bad enough, she has said sorry TWICE since March. And i mean she just that: "I'm sorry" short and cold. The few tears she has shed are out of GUILT, not sorrow, seeing me break uncontrollably , crying like someone i love had just died. As long as i'm not falling apart or pushing her with my Why's and questions she's FINE!!!Happy wife, business as usual!

She says she wants to give our marriage a second chance, she loves me (Wow!), and she sees a future with me (Gulp). I do love her despite all this (yes shoot me now!) but her lack of effort (denial), lack of ACTION, and disregard for my triggers are of serious concern. She seems to think that by saying "she's going to try" it's enough, and i should respect her word! But Oh, how cheap are words to a liar?

My worst fear is that she's not giving up this second life of hers. She's trying to smooth it over with me at the same time continuing her disgusting deceit.

Anyone out there have a similar experience? Help, I can't see the wood for the trees right now.

Totally BrokenBill

SisterMilkshake posted 5/18/2013 08:02 AM

Welcome to SI, Bill, the best club you don't want to belong to. Have you read anything in the Healing Library? It is located in the yellow box in the Upper left hand corner of this page. Pay particular attention to the BS FAQ's great wisdom and info there. Also, really look at #11 all about the 180. I feel you need to implement the 180 immediately for your own mental health.

WS's say a lot of stuff, but that doesn't matter. What matters is actions, and your WW has not been doing any actions that signify that she is remorseful. I would agree with you that you probably do not know the depths of her betrayal yet and that I wouldn't doubt that she is continuing in these betrayals of you.

Besides love, what is keeping you with her? You don't have children it looks like.

It is very slow on the weekends, Bill, and the Reconciliation forum doesn't get as much traffic as other forums do. Can I recommend you going to the ICR forum (I Can Relate Forum) and posting your story in the Betrayed Men's thread? The men there are so awesome and can give you some spot on perspective.

I also see you read the thread "Things Every WS needs to know". Did you print it out and give it to your WW to read? I would suggest you do that, too, and see if her actions improve.


AFrayedKnot posted 5/18/2013 08:09 AM


I am sorry you are here and for what you are going through. I want you to know you have been heard and are not alone.

I am just walking out the door for work but I will check back again later. Weekends are kinda slow here buy I am sure more people will be on to respond.

In the mean time check out the healing library in the upper left corner. Also check out the threads in JFO tactical primer, before you say reconcile, and great post for newbies. Have your wife read everything a WS needs to know in the wayward forum if she is willing.

Eat, sleep, drink plenty of water, get some exercise, keep reading and posting. Its a long road.

[This message edited by Chicho at 8:12 AM, May 18th (Saturday)]

keptmypromise posted 5/18/2013 08:51 AM

BB...Your story is beyond similar to mine, it is almost carbon copy. UI cannot say that I am in a safe place right now in my marriage, but I can tell you she has not continued her evil ways. There is a level of satisfaction for me in knowing that if I ever am suspicious again...I walk. I told her this, and she knows it is truth. There are no passwords, secret e-mails, no going to bars with the girls anymore. She had free reign to do whatever she wanted, and she slipped on the banana peel. I gave her choices, and for now, she chose family. We are R at a snails pace, but slowly heading in the right direction. Restoring faith and trust is soooo damn hard, and it takes a long, long time. I suggest you think long term on this R...make a game plan for your dealbreakers, and stick to them for you sanity. Good luck my friend.

FeelingSoMuch posted 5/18/2013 10:31 AM

BB, your situation sounds awful. I'm sorry. The advice above makes sense to me.

My WW had one LTA and had a difficult time saying sorry at first, but that's getting better now.

Not to make excuses for her, but she comes from a family/cultural background where admitting mistakes is seen as a weakness.

The only thing that's helping is going to MC.

I'm a firm believer in it.

Stay strong.

BrokenBill posted 5/18/2013 11:44 AM

SisterMilkshake & Chicho

The 180 i'm trying to do, good concepts but very hard in reality! I have always given my wife the real me, no pretense, no disguise. I thought i had married someone who loved me for who i am.

I gave up my my country, career, friends, family and moved everything 1/2 way across the world to be with her! This is not simple or easy situation and thank god there are no kids involved.

As it stands all our wedding vows lie shattered, not a single one honored (we wrote them together, in our own words). If we make it, and we do have kids, before she gets pregnant, she signs everything to me, custody, assets, EVERYTHING, or i'm gone -> That's non negotiable.

I did read "Things Every WS needs to know" and she's not doing a single thing mentioned there. NO, I have not printed it out for her! Up to now i have been the one pushing, making the effort, printing articles, setting aside time to talk, the one always talking during that time, finding books to read, etc.

She only does something when i get angry or prod her. Never her own inituative. She has so many resources at her finger tips, her work even offers a free confidential counseling service to employees! Still nothing!

She shows no remorse whatsoever you are right. That's killing me more that the whole sex thing. She still goes drinking (without me) at the place where all this filth started (?) and gets upset when i say i'm not happy about it!!! Kick my triggers why don't you? All so disrespectful.

I'm hitting the gym, the road and the tennis court with all my anger. The only way to sleep right now is through exhaustion, best i can do is 5hrs. I'm forcing myself to eat , fruit mostly, and started vitamin supplemental too. Lost 14kg in the first 4 weeks, have not dared get on the scale since April.

SI has been a god-send, thanks to all of you who work at SI and everyone who posted their pain. The BS FAQ is excellent. The Tactical Primer is also of great value, i need to re read that.

I have, and continue to put my best foot forward, being positive and strong. Trying not to see myself as a victim.

Trying to understand and support her, making a space for her to come out of denial (Fog). Changing in me what i don't like about myself, listening to her criticisms of me and growing on a personal level ...To me that's being a MAN. The balls to face yourself! (This is all at considerable emotional cost.) Not sure how much longer i can take it/wait for her to come round.

Regards Bill

[This message edited by BrokenBill at 12:02 PM, May 18th (Saturday)]

BrokenBill posted 5/18/2013 11:58 AM

keptmypromise and FeelingSoMuch

Thanks for your replies, I posted before i read your comments.

I can't deal with the fact that she just doesn't give a fuck and this was all just a sham!

[This message edited by BrokenBill at 11:58 AM, May 18th (Saturday)]

20WrongsVs1 posted 5/18/2013 12:47 PM

You posted in the Reconciliation thread. R is a two-way street, and you're clearly the only one on the road.

She is a cake eater, and it sounds like you just keep baking and decorating. I'm a WS, a liar and a cheater, and I've been where she is. Pretending to be the happy wife, while living a secret double life as a carefree single slut. It was a disgusting, horrible thing, and I am so ashamed of myself.

Now we are in R, together, and I'm probably not working hard enough. But I am so sorry, and I am in it to win it.

If I went out drinking right now...alone...are you kidding me!?! He would tell me to GTFO. That is not the behavior of a remorseful wife who wants to work things out, that's a cheater, cheating.

Run. Before you have children, before you lose more weight and put yourself in the hospital. Run. See an attorney on Monday, if you haven't already.

I'm not saying R isn't possible. But doing the 180 and seeing how it lands for her, will tell you a lot. She has to want R, she has to repent, and agree to your conditions.

Changing in me what i don't like about myself, listening to her criticisms of me and growing on a personal level ...To me that's being a MAN.

Listening to her criticisms is valid, in the absence of an A. You may be partially responsible for your relationship problems, but you didn't have an A. That was all on her. That is not even a little bit your fault.

Quit baking and frosting, and start taking care of yourself.

annb posted 5/18/2013 13:06 PM

Hi, Bill, I just wanted to add there is a thread in the I Can Relate forum for Betrayed Men.

You might want to check it out and get some more insight from the group there.

catlover50 posted 5/18/2013 13:24 PM

So sorry you are here, Bill, but welcome.

Are you in IC? It may help. Too soon for MC, IMHO, because she is not being honest. But I worry that she may have some serious issues. My fWH recently disclosed childhood sexual abuse and I have learned alot about it. I just wonder if your wife has some deep seated problems.

She is being beyond cruel. I would not be able to live in a home with someone behaving like that; just acting like it should be business as usual when you are destroyed.

I wish you well.

BrokenBill posted 5/18/2013 13:26 PM

Hi, 20WrongsVs1

Good to hear from a WS, thank you.

Sorry, i clearly posted in the wrong place, under R. You are right, we are not in R! I hadn't wanted to admit that. I will try harder to 180 and throw out the cake tin.

My wife is such a

"carefree single slut"
when we are out together her body language is off the chart and the inappropriate comments from her (to men) are just shameless. I'm seeing this now with fresh eyes now the trust has gone, i was so blinded.

Funny you mention the lawyer, i got the number from a friend via email a minute ago. I am going to call Monday and get that info. I have also packed 2 boxes of my most precious personal items last night should i decide to up sticks.

I am ready to leave, but don't want to. It's fear plane and simple, i know.

180 180 180 180 180!

Good luck with your R, thanks again and for goodness sake, try harder!!!


[This message edited by BrokenBill at 1:35 PM, May 18th (Saturday)]

Skan posted 5/18/2013 16:36 PM

BrokenBill, welcome. Sorry that you had the reason to come find us, but welcome.

Yes, every marriage has problems. Some of them have really horrible ones. But, and this is a crucial but, you were in the same marriage and didn't decide to go out and screw someone. If you have problems in a marriage, you talk about it, discuss it, get counciling, maybe even separate and divorce. Those are all steps that moral, sane people take. You had a front porch that had some termite damage. Instead of treating the damage, your WW threw a nuclear bomb on the house. Now there's no house. And she's telling you to suck it up because the radiation in the soil isn't that bad.

All of her affairs, every one of them, are ALL on her. She made the decision to have them. She didn't just happen to trip over her high heels and end up "compromised." Whatever your termite problems in your marriage were, the radiation of her affairs have to be taken care of first.

(((hugs))) Keep talking. We're here for you. If you'd like, you can ask the moderators to move your thread to the JFO (just found out) forum.

LonelyHusband posted 5/18/2013 17:16 PM

I am ready to leave, but don't want to. It's fear plane and simple, i know.

Good for you buddy you are well on the way to clarity. Now you just need to understand that what you REALLY should be afraid of is living the rest of your life in fear and distrust of your partner. compared to that, the fear of losing someone who is already betraying you should be tiny. You deserve better. If you really love her, then you need to risk losing her. Lay down the law with your rules for reconciliation and make damn sure you hold her to them

SI Staff posted 5/19/2013 08:43 AM

Please note that since this thread has been moved to JFO, it is now closed to WS responses.

Thank you.

whatlysbeneath posted 5/19/2013 21:33 PM


Our situations are similar but with important differences.

You have just discovered her affairs, I am 3 yrs out.

You do not have children, I have 4 young ones.

Like you, I am honest and transparent, I believed I had won the wife lottery. My wife deliberately pretended to mirror/share my values to gain my trust first then me.

Take as much time as you need to make the choices you can live with.

Friend, if I did not have children I would NOT be with my WW! She is in surface R but refuses to be completely open and honest.

Please don't bring an innocent child into this relationship anytime soon. Would you want a mother like this? You and your WW are adults. Adults get to make choices, children do not!

I have stayed this long and suffered this much because I believe I owe this effort to my children.

You are seeing a lawyer, good move.

Do get tested for STDs as soon as possible. Almost all Cheaters lie about having unprotected sex, please don't bet your life on it!!

If you choose R, have ONLY protected sex until you are certain she is faithful.

BrokenBill posted 5/20/2013 02:52 AM

Thanks whatlysbeneath,

No remorse and not trying is what's killing me. She's not in a Fog, she's in a cage. A brain of steel boxes.

I did get Tested for std's & HIV. She had unprotected sex and didn't want to get herself tested until i threw a total fit!

The horror of it all is that i think this behavior has been going on since before we were married, when we were dating. Looking at the patterns of depression and crying etc.

It's a lot to deal with and the anger is eating me alive. I can hardly contain my anger right now.

No kids but i didn't get married to have kids! I got married for the love and security of a single committed partner, someone to share my life etc. Kids for me would be a product of that, not the reason for it.

Kids are not on my mind by any stretch of the imagination!

stronger08 posted 5/20/2013 06:56 AM

Welcome brother. I think your assertion of the situation is pretty good. Without remorse and more importantly percise action on her part there is never going to be a chance of R. The woman has been living a double life and likes it. My XWW was the same way. I never thought in a million years she would be doing what she was. Image of a happy home life was something she always projected. But inderneath it all lied a very dark and twisted lifestyle. And to be honest all these years later I still dont know the depth of her depravity. You dont have to make a decision right now. Take time to digest what has happened. You are only scratching the surface here and Im sure there is much more to the story. Get as much information as you can and make your decision. Of course you love her and want the M to get better. But without her participation its a waste of your time to even try. You can not change her. You can not change yourself to please her. You can not nice her back into the M. Sadly the only weapon you have right now is your choice to stay in the M or not. I feel its imperative that you take a hard line and make demands of what it is you need in order to stay. Any form of compromise or weakness on your part will be seen by her as a way to continue her wicked ways.

This is going to get worse before it gets better. You must concentrate your energies on healing yourself. Infidelity is a deep and hurtfull emotional wound that takes time to heal from. Its in this hurt emotional state that a WS will try and take advantage of the situation. Some like your WW will claim remorse only to get the heat off. Others simply rub the shit in your face. And some even attempt to make you believe that all is going well while they continue cheating on the down low. I have found that the best course of action is to assume and prepare for the worst. If things happen to work out thats great. If not at least your prepared. Do not under and circumstance allow her to blame this on you. This is solely on her. And if she wants the M to work she will accept any terms you set and work her ass off in order to fix herself. If not its never gonna get better. Again welcome and keep posting and reading.

BrokenBill posted 5/20/2013 14:27 PM

Thanks stronger08

Your wisdom is duly noted, thanks for your time and advice. Sorry, you have clearly been through this. I hope you are out the other side now

It most certainly is getting worse. I was screaming at her on the phone just now and getting nowhere, just sceaming and pushing her into justification mode. She puts me last on her list of priorities and i'm angry and just sick of it. I have the lawyer on Thursday and counseling on Friday, preparing for the worst, trying to 180 and hating it all!

As my good friend said, i'm just giving up my dream, because in reality life with my wife the past year and a half has been awful, empty and cold. So let it go,'s just a bad dream.

OK now posted 5/20/2013 15:05 PM

I'm sorry, but the most amazing thing to me is why you would ever consider reconciliation. The degree of betrayal is so huge and unsurmountable; and you know its going to continue. This alternative lifestyle is so incredibly exciting to your wife she just can't give it up. She craves validation from men and she just can't turn it off because you demand that she does.

Either tolerate her infidelity and request that at least she makes sure that the children are yours, [no guarantees however], or divorce this woman before she gets pregnant with one of her lovers.

Once you really decide to end this marriage a lot of the anger will dissipate. I don't think your wife will be very troubled; there is no room for love in her type of mindset.

Read up about this type of WW, who flirts constantly and whose validation needs are bottomless. At least you will see how intractable of a problem this is, and the diminished probability that she will be able to relate normally [and faithfully].

1Faith posted 5/20/2013 15:35 PM


I am sorry you are going through this. SI is a Godsend.

You know your journey and path - we each have our own - but you are better than being treated like this. You are. You know this.

Define your boundaries and if they aren't met - leave. You given more than enough and repeatedly.

Your WW has no reason to change bc she doesn't have to. There have been no real consequences for her actions.

It sucks and it hurts but you deserve truth, honesty and love. You have none of that now.

3 strikes = she should be OUT

Sending hugs - keep moving

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