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User Topic: Hating/blaming the AP?
hopefulmother
♀ 38790
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do some of you feel we should not blame the AP too? Is this how you feel or did you read it somewhere where it is wrong to do so?

In cases where the AP doesn't know about the M, I can understand.

But, if they knew. Had even met the BS or are family friends with the BS. Why can't we hate and blame them too? Why is that so wrong?

As long as we have put blame on the WS, which as far as I can tell we all do. Why can't we hold the AP accountable too?

The A would not have happened without their co-operation or in some cases their instigation.

They may not have owed it to us like our spouses personally, but they too have a responsibility to society (to contribute, not destroy) and to the institution of M. They are practically damned in wedding vows "let no man pull asunder this contract".

Even putting all the blame and anger on our WS seems counter-productive. If we are to reconcile, it is easier to do if we hate and blame them less. Isn't it easier to R when we share the responsibility with our spouse to R. So, why can't our spouse share the responsibility of the A with the AP so we may be angry at them less?

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:05 PM, May 18th (Saturday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Angel177
♀ 37274
Member # 37274
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate and blame the ow. She was my "friend" I do feel my husband had more of a reason to be faithful to me considering we took vows and he knew how I felt about cheating. However ow knew that I felt cheating would end my marriage and she still decided to go after my husband. I will never forgive her for that (not that she has asked me too, in fact she has not spoken to me since dday)

Now the OBS was wh's best friend for 12 years. They are now friends again. In fact they are together looking at trucks right now. Ow and obs are divorced and none of us have anything to do with ow. I have told obs that he is far more forgiving then anyone I have ever encountered. He says he still gets the odd urge to punch wh but that he couldn't carry that hate around anymore. 6 months after dday they were friends again. I'm glad because the three of us (obs, wh, and I) were very close before obs met ow but I struggle to understand how he can just let it go so easily.....


Me:BS
Him:WH
D-Day Sept. 14/12...R started Dec. 3/12
Together-10 years Married-5 years
Daughter-3
Son-13 months (died July 2, 2014)
Baby #3 due Feb. 2015
4 month EA and 4 month EA/PA in 2012 with my "friend"

Posts: 252 | Registered: Oct 2012
heartbroken0903
♀ 27879
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree. It takes two to have an affair. It only would take one to say "no" or to end it.

That being said, I do accept more responsibility because I was married. The OP wasn't.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

We remarried in 2014.


Posts: 2316 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
LA44
♀ 38384
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In short (for me), she was not the cause of our problems nor was she the solution.

I didn't know the AP in our story. If I did, I would feel that much angrier towards her.

She is fully responsible for contributing to what could have been the break up of our marriage. I hold her accountable for that. I was not real to her. I am now!

But my H said his vows to me. She did not. I don't like her. Don't want to know her. Don't have any respect for her.

My R is with him. I don't care what the hell she does. I just hope she stays away from the next married man she encounters.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2593 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
SisterMilkshake
♀ 30024
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I vehemently disagree with those that say we shouldn't hate or blame the AP's. It is natural and they do deserve it unless, of course, they truly don't know that their partner is married and they aren't married themselves.

I believe that the AP's do owe us common human courtesy. To expect someone to not fuck your married spouse isn't too much to ask. There are many single fuckable people out there.

And, you are right. In the beginning we do need to be able to place some of the anger and hatred away from our spouses if we hope to reconcile. The cumdumpster (or the dumper) is the logical place to dump all hatred and anger.

I don't feel it is wrong to blame the AP, we can hate them, we can hold them accountable. However, I will agree that at some point in time, for your own healing it is best to strive to get to indifference for the AP. But, in the meantime, I say feel free to indulge in your hatred. Just don't let it consume you.

I would imagine alot of MC's and IC's and self help books would advocate the "zen" approach. Can't we all just get along?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
refuz2bavictim
♀ 27176
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can't we hate and blame them too? Why is that so wrong?

We can. It's not wrong. It probably serves a purpose in the event that R is possible with the spouse. Anger directed at the AP can leave an opening for the WS to reattach. I think there is a window of time for that to happen, before the anger is equally directed at the WS.

I think as you grow farther away from the A time frame and the focus on the A shrinks, anger toward the "actors" involved seem to be a waste of time. As time goes on, holding on to blame and hate (regardless of the target) can keep us stuck in the mire.

I went through my hate/rage/blame phase and would never begrudge anyone who also experiences this. It's part of the process for a very large number of us. I dare say it's "normal".

I typically stop reading advice when I reach the word.....*Should*

Regardless of the opinions of others...you feel how you feel. What you do with it and how you feel about yourself based on that decision is what matters. You are the only person who must own what you feel and what you do.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
stratus722
♀ 35907
Member # 35907
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My hatred about ow was because she was a bold selfish bitch. Rule number 1 if you are screwing someone's husband it's not a good idea to come and sit at their table at a Christmas party and act extra nice to her. I just couldn't believe the nerve after I found out it had been going on. I think just respect a man that's married and stay away. Of course it's my husbands fault he's the dumb ass who got excited when an ugly whore gave him attention. Also, when I called her the next day after I found out she was acting like the victim. When you find out he's dumping you not a good idea to cry to wife that you can't eat or sleep. My world was turned upside down and I was in shock. She knew he was married with little kids and I didn't know about her. So how is she acting devasted. She contributed to the pain. It's worse when your feeling this unwelcome pain that you didn't ask for. Bottom line I hate women who have no boundaries for married men. Women can see a whore a mile away and most idiot men see it when It's to late. Believe me their is enough anger for the both of them.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2012
solus sto
♀ 30989
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The common "wisdom" is that the AP did not "make any vows" to us.

I was taught that both partners in an adulterous affair are adulterers. It may or may not be technically correct, but IMO, an AP who knowingly engages in an affair with a married person is EQUALLY culpable for the decision. (This is not to say that some are not lied to; there are APs who do not know their "partners" are married. It DOES apply, IMO, to those who fall for the bullshit, "My wife doesn't understand me! We're practically divorced! We sleep in separate bedrooms! We have an open marriage" lines.)

I DO hold the AP responsible. I do dislike her strongly.

When I thought R was a possibility, I reserved more of my ire for her because, quite frankly, I had enough bad feelings for my husband already, and any chance at reconciliation relied on me minimizing those feelings and tapping into the GOOD feelings I (once) had for him.

It became evident early on, for me, that R was not a possibility. (Sociopaths don't R well, and he was diagnosed as rather profoundly personality-disordered, with STRONG antisocial/sociopathic traits.)

By then, I no longer had good feelings about him to preserve.

But I still think very poorly of OW. She is a selfish, manipulative, mean bitch---and she deserves EVERY bit of ire I have for her, and then some (because, really, I'm pretty charitable by nature).


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9024 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Sal1995
♂ 39099
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife's AP pursued her relentlessly at a vulnerable time in her life. He spent weeks breaking down her defenses, knowing the whole time that she was married. At least one friend who witnessed this behavior told him to back off, and supposedly my wife said no quite a few times before giving in to the constant attention and flattery.

Still...I don't recall standing at an altar and exchanging vows with him. If he had never been born, there were probably about a thousand other men in this town who would have gladly helped my wife destroy her wedding vows.

I hate the SOB (don't know him and have never met him, but hate what he represents), but guys like him are a dime a dozen. It's my wife who betrayed me, over and over again.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1487 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ 39099
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was taught that both partners in an adulterous affair are adulterers. It may or may not be technically correct, but IMO, an AP who knowingly engages in an affair with a married person is EQUALLY culpable for the decision.

This I agree with. From a moral culpability standpoint, they are in the same shoes.

I guess my position is that there are people all over the world committing adultery, all the time every day. Many millions of them, sadly. But only one of them has the power to rip my heart to shreds - my wife. Only one of them has the power to spare me this agony and work on our marriage instead - my wife.

What the AP clown does or doesn't do in his life is no concern to me. It's only when he becomes my wife's accomplice that he even gets on my radar.

Let God deal with him. I'm dealing with her.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1487 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Holly-Isis
♀ 13447
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are asking questions I frequently ask. I detest when someone says forget about the AP, it's your spouse you should be mad at. They are both perpetrators of pain.

I do sometimes say your WS is the problem, but that's usually when the OP is out of the picture and the WS isn't being honest, transparent, loving and so on. That's a horse of a different color. Trying to heal through the OP won't work, it has to be done with your S if you're in R. Anger towards the OP is normal but R can't happen when we accept wayward attitudes from our S.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11275 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
LoveActually
♀ 31030
Member # 31030
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She knowingly and willingly entered into an affair with a married man. Wanted nothing more than for him to hurry and divorce me and be with her. She didn't give two shits about me, my feelings, my children, my life and obviously never thought twice about the everlasting, devastating damage their "relationship" would cause everyone. How can I not blame/hate her. She is as guilty as my husband as far as I am concerned.


BS (Me)
WS (Him)
D-Day 5/29/09
Married 11 yrs, together 16 yrs

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jan 2011
LonelyHusband
♂ 34145
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no issue with hating the AP, at least when the AP knows the other person is married. At that point they are just pond scum.

However, what I DO think is wrong is blaming the AP instead of your partner. It's all too tempting to blame the AP and believe your partner was somehow misled, or misguided, or manipulated. That's clinging to the false believe that your sweetie is still there and just confused. Which is bollocks. They betrayed you.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
Sal1995
♂ 39099
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She didn't give two shits about me, my feelings, my children, my life and obviously never thought twice about the everlasting, devastating damage their "relationship" would cause everyone.

True...but neither did your husband.

Between the two of them, which one would you expect to have your back, to take care of you?

That's my point - there are lot of men who would screw my wife. The fact that one of them was able to is on her.

Her AP is still a piece of shit, but we're all adults here. We've always known the world is full of POS persons, right?

I just don't understand wasting a lot of psychic energy on the person your spouse chose to have an affair with, when your biggest problem lives right under your roof. Sure I vent a little at times about the OM, but I never forget the person who betrayed me - my WW. She's the one I'm going to have to R and make peace with, not this other idiot.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1487 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Lucky2HaveMe
♀ 13333
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so much easier to hate the AP - especially in situations where we don't know him/her. We have feelings for our WS that conflict with hate. So it's often easier to cast the blame elsewhere. (I understand this is probably not the case when it is a case of double betrayal with a friend/relative).

The MCOW was the predator in my H's A. She threw that fishing line to him and each and every time he nibbled - for 3 years - until he swallowed everything she sold to him hook, line & sinker. HE is responsible for the choice to betray me. HE is responsible for taking the bait. SHE is nothing to me - never was, never will be.

That said, I don't like the OW. She was also married and knew my H was and deliberately went after him. I don't typically like people with such low morals. But she is merely a blip on the screen to me. I really am indifferent to her.

It really is healing to get to a place of indifference.


Love isn't what you say, it's what you do.

Posts: 6635 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
Ashland13
♀ 38378
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a while I did that too, but it's a person I don't know. If I did know her I may feel different.

My point of view does change with the day, but right now, for me to hate OW is wasted energy. I understand a little bit, I think, and it helps, and I can share what I think if anyone would like. It really helped me in that regard.

I think when OW/OM are someone we knew/family knew, that' different, as I said...in this case OW only knows of me what Perv complained about, which I'm sure is terrible.

But you know, I spend more time on me and a little on him with my thinking, because without him there wouldn't be the little connection to OW there is. She was lied to as I was and she still accepts him. She's "rescuing him" from a horrible wife and life, but has no idea what's in store for her!

In some ways I feel sorry for them both, because they are planning this fantasy life together, but they can't even tell the truth!

Maybe her threshold is higher than mine for being wronged, I don't know.

Anyway, I think it's ok to blame OP when she knew WS is/was married. Sometimes, from what I understand, they are tricked-that happened here. Perv told OW he was a widower, when here I am, pregnant and typing away-not dead.

But I don't have any compassion for her, for what she's done with a married man and knows a woman and child suffer.

And I agree that hating/blaming OW/OM is easier than SO/WS because there's no connection with a BS to them like there is to a SO.


Ashland 13

You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2366 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
LonelyHusband
♂ 34145
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually feel nothing for the AP. I went through feeling enough anger that I was worried for a time what might happen if we met. Then for a long time I actually pitied him, especially once I grasped how truly pitiful he is. then I laughed my ass off when the karma bus not only hit him full in the face, but then reversed over his ass too. Most of the time now I couldn't give a shit. He's a long way away from my wife and as long as that situation remains the same then all is well.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
hopefulmother
♀ 38790
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for the input.

Don't worry, I put plenty of blame on my fWH. I gave him lots of hell and made his life pretty stressful for some time. Even tried to kick him out and at one point left.

I by no means am letting him off the hook, when it comes to his share of the work in R. He has since a month after D-day been working extremely hard.

He does not blame shift on the AP. As a matter of fact he tried to take the entire blame. Even though she started it. Which caused a lot of issues for awhile. I saw it as him protecting her. But, he said it was because he was the one that owed me his loyalty. True-he said the vow-to forsake all others.

There have been some days where I pitied her. So who knows, perhaps I am close to indifference.

Lonelyhusband: great laugh about the karma buss backing up for him. I would love to know what happened.

No karma buss for the OW yet. Except losing my husband and failing to break up my M.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
918Mama
♀ 37756
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe that the AP's do owe us common human courtesy. To expect someone to not fuck your married spouse isn't too much to ask. There are many single fuckable people out there.

I'm one that's largely let go of my intense anger towards the OW. But the quote above from sister is dead on. I blame my husband for completely and totally fucking up my life. But seriously??? Why are these women going after married men??? Wtf? Where is girl code? Human decency? The golden rule? Hell, what about not taking things that don't belong to you? Honestly, my five year old is better behaved.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 600 | Registered: Dec 2012
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, May 18th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Meh. Hate/blame away. The only time I would advise someone to stop hating the AP is if it was holding back their own healing or if it was affecting them adversely. Or maybe if the AP was ignorant of the WS being manrried. For my own part, I had to give up on the horrible thoughts I had about the MOW because it was uncomfortable to feel that way about anyone. However, I still hold her fully responsible for her role in the A, and for being a lying, despicable, deceptive person. Since she has never made any effort to apologize to me or express remorse, I can't go farther than that. But it is enough for me. I consider it a huge personal growth that I would now consider pissing on her if she was on fire, if only for her kids' sake.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1766 | Registered: Nov 2010
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