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Those words, along with, "you are the man of my dreams", "I want you, I love you, I wish I met you sooner", etc, etc....They are ruining me and my W in our recovery. I cant get past the words my WW said to her OM,( my former best friend, during their 18 month love affair.) WW is doing all the right things, saying all the right things, we are in IC and MC, and we are trying, but I am stuck. Stuck specifically with those words. How could she, why would she, how can we move forward? When I see her, I see those words, I picture her with him, and I am stuck. I know I cant be alone with this. I dont want to be stuck, I want to be able to move forward with our R. What have others done when faced with similar issues? Any thoughts, suggestions? thanks :)

What do I do? I remind myself that those are the lies they had to tell themselves in order to do what they did.

((cantgetworseII)) I am so sorry you are stuck in this thought and obviously you really want to get out of it. That's great that your wife is doing all the right things now. Can you think of 1-2 and focus on that?

Also, I keep reading about putting obsessive thought on something tangible - like a piece of paper. Apparently, our minds has a way of focussing less on obsessive thoughts once they are in a perm place, or once we make them an object.

So make that place a piece of paper - instead of your brain. You can even destroy the paper after you write it. Again, you have made it an "object" and you are taking matters into your own hands by destroying it.

This is a hard road. I wish you well.

LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 2:51 PM, May 20th (Monday)]

It's awful isn't it ? (((cantgetworse11)))

I read all my WH's deleted texts and saw similar as well as bashing me and planning their trysts, talking about trysts. I can't unread ANY of it. It will always be a part of me. How can a person forget that?

I am 14 months out of this mess and all I can tell you that has helped me with my obsessive thoughts is time, discussing these thoughts in IC, discussing them here at SI and with friends. I also am on medication that has stopped a lot of that cycling in the brain.

There is nothing that I found that takes away the hurt and pain associated with the words. I will never be the same. I will never see my WH the same.

I also remind myself that the sweet and incredibly romantic things my wayward husband said to his ap (I found 3 emails that he sent to her that he forgot to erase) was all pretty much bs and it was just a part of the fanstasy. Nonetheless it hurts everytime I think about it!!!

Just keep telling yourself this has nothing to do with you whatsoever!!! They're just very sick and broken people!!! What they're doing isn't reality- it's fantasyland!! There's no way that they could live and co-habitate in the real world! As soon as one crisis came up- they'd turn to someone else who'd think that their crape don't be stinking!!!

Hugs to you!!! You're in my prayers!!

Thanks all for the replies. I read them all, and found some great advice. Meds isnt on the table at the moment, BUT I may have to go down that road if the obsessing continues. I agree with u MJ, they wouldnt last in reality, but that doesnt take away the pain of knowing the words she said, and feelings she felt at the time, "I will love you forever" its in my head all the time. The idea of writing these thoughts out in hopes of moving on from that thought is a good one, and i will try that. We keep up with both MC and our own IC...so, lets see what happens over time, but i'm afraid, that what crazyblindsided said is true, " There is nothing that I found that takes away the hurt and pain associated with the words. I will never be the same. I will never see my WH the same." thanks all :)

Can't,

I know that this has been a long ongoing problem for you, you have written about it before.

Do you feel in your heart that she meant these things?

I ask because I had a few roadblocks myself with Hlessons, and I had to decide if I really felt that he felt that way about her, or if that was his stupidity at that point in time. It took some time for me.

@ tired girl....1st, thanks for all your help. your friendship with my W and your words to us both have been very helpful, thanks :)

To answer your question, " do i feel in my heart she felt those things?" Yes, I do. And I remember D Day when she looked me in the eye and said, "I think I love him"....yeah, great memories. Anyway, I have asked her about it, she says it was how she felt at that time, and that it "wasnt real"....and, im sure all BS's have asked those questions, and my WW has also asked me them...., WHY? and another one...HOW? Its funny, I get bothered about the sex, and the mind movies, etc....BUT, my biggest struggles seem to be with her saying those words to him, "i will love you forever"

Believe me- I know exactly how you feel!!! I'm a year since d-day. Last February- I was up all night because I was worried about my son's oral surgery the next morning and noticed my wayward's phone on the counter. I wished I would've never touched it - what I saw will stay with me forever!!!

It was three chat's he sent to the ow on Christmas day 2011. For us Christmas has always been about love and family! I'll never-ever feel the same way about Christmas again!!!

His last chat after I went to bed and he was picking up toys.

"In twelve hours you'll be taking him to the airport (husband #3) and I'll be counting down the time until we can be together! I love you so much!!! I hope this feeling never ends!! I can't wait to hug and kiss you until you beg me to stop! Maybe next year we can be in Disneyland!"

Of course- this hurts me to know end!!! But I know- it's all fantasyland!!! And that's what I tell myself! Do I actually believe that he wants to be her husband #4?!? Not by a long shot!! They're just sick and twisted!!!!

Keep your chin up!! I know it hurts like hell!!!!

I can tell you, Hlessons did something on DD that for me, I viewed it as a transfer of loyalty, from me to her. In that moment, all feelings of love left me. It has taken a year of his hard work and my hard work for that to start to come back.

Do you feel that way, sort of? Like it was a transfer of her loyalty, and it is that part of her that you can't quite trust or get past?

ETA: Thank you for your kind words. I am hoping that the two of you can find your way back to each other.

[This message edited by tired girl at 7:49 PM, May 20th (Monday)]

@ tired girl.

Im sure that has something to do with it. I remember my WW telling me she trusted her AP over me. Imagine that, she trusted a guy she knew briefly over an 18 month affair, over a husband of 17 yrs, the father of her kids, we had a life together, etc...So, yes, that hurts. But, for me, i guess my biggest problem is those "love " words. I mean, she had her affair, she did what she did sexually, and there was an emotional bond, clearly...BUT, to say those words....If you reach that point, where you say, "i will love you forever" " you are the man of my dreams, my soulmate", "i want you, i love you, now and always" etc..(btw, yes she DID say those things, those aren't my imagination") If you reach that point, and feel that way....then leave. Bail out with as little pain as possible....he didnt she got caught. She reached out to her AP, he blew her off. she found out her AP had over 20 different affairs over the past 5 yrs. What is she to do? R, thats what she did. Wow, im a lucky guy :)

Cant,

She reached out to her AP, he blew her off. she found out her AP had over 20 different affairs over the past 5 yrs. What is she to do? R, thats what she did.

Are you feeling like plan B? That the only reason you are in R is because her AP threw her under the bus? I don't have any good advice - I've read stuff my wife said to her AP during her A that will haunt me forever, but it also haunts me that she stuck with me because I was a security blanket and provider, not because I was "too amazing to be true". Words she's never said to me, and really, I don't think I would find them authentic now. It's tough as shit knowing that those feelings your spouse had for their AP were real at the time - they minimize and rewrite the A history, but that's just human nature. I just try and concentrate (hard) on the person she is today, not who she was during her A. It's just not that easy, not do I ever expect it to be. But that's my choice, and I know I'm signing up for that if I want to R.

I can tell you, Hlessons did something on DD that for me, I viewed it as a transfer of loyalty, from me to her. In that moment, all feelings of love left me. It has taken a year of his hard work and my hard work for that to start to come back.

Hit the nail on the head for me on this one...wow thank you! This is why I get stuck and feel I cannot go forward with R. My WHs loyalties were with MOW up until our last DDay.

You may not like what I am going to ask you to do next, if you don't, don't do it.

Being as you are a madhatter, and the two of you literally found out about each other's affairs like the same day, I want to see if you can step back for just a second.

Your wife, found out that, not only was her AP not the person who she thought he was, and almost 100% of the time that is the case, but neither were you. She has had to deal with a double whammy, and she has remained steadfast in her remorse to you throughout.

You mentioned in your last post that you were upset about her not being able to trust you, were you a trustworthy H? Turns out you weren't were you? Neither was the affair partner, but sometimes when we carry this much anger, some of it really is directed back at ourselves.

I think you are a little bit pissed off that she could be taken in by an asshole like your best friend, but dude look in the mirror, you were right along side him doing the same thing. I know this is hard to hear.

When I went and did what I did, I was full of rage, and for a long time I was convinced it was all directed at Hlessons because of how he had been in our M, and I had a right to do what I did. Turns out, the one I was pissed at all along was me.

Make sure the anger you have with this is being pointed in the right direction.

Don't be afraid to look in the mirror at your own actions, only through that will you ever be able to truly heal yourself.

APs often speak lies to one another as a means of manipulation.

My WH, at the time of the affair, was 5' 11" ~ 280lbs ~ balding ~ and less than attractive.

Words spoken by MOW to my WH:

1) "You are cute"

2)"You are so hot and sexy" (to a blind person maybe)

3) "It's you that I want" (as she planned a fishing excursion with another MOM)

4) "Yes, you're bigger than the men in the porn movie I watched last night" (NOT!)

She said what my WH wanted to hear. In turn he would feed these ego stroking compliments back at her.

I refer to it as "fishing"~ when my WH told her she was "hot" he was looking for her to tell him how amazingly good looking and wonderful he was.

It hurts to know that your WS spoke those words but try to remember that they are just that: empty words spoken while delusional in a fantasy world.

Although you feel you are the fall back option there is an important difference when compared with most affairs; your WW knows the AP's lover image was an illusion.

She not left with fond memories and unfulfilled wishes; she knows he is a liar and insincere person who cannot be trusted, not the dream lover she thought he was. So the affair is revealed as a joke, a nightmare. This makes reconciliation a lot easier and I believe your WW is making a determined effort to rebuild.

So the "I will love you forever" may have been sincere at the time she said it, now its just a considerable embarrassment to her. If she could unsay those words she definitely would. The phrase was spoken to a OM who does not exist and never did; as I said, an illusion.

The issue I would struggle with the most is the fact she had an affair with your best friend and in doing so destroyed two relationships not just your marriage. Hard to forgive such treachery.

thanks again to all for the replies...

@ OK Now, I agree with what you said, and believe me the double beytrayal is brutal. AND, we live a mile apart in a small town, where at any moment there is a chance we can bump into each other, and we were part of a small group of couples that got together, and everyone knows now, and our kids (12) were best of friends, who no longer see each other outside of school. its brutal. And in addition to my obsessing over the words she said to him, I also cringe when she says them to me now. Knowing how she would be on the computer with him every night, say , "i love you, good night", then come to bed with me and say those same words....it kills me. Now, when she says i love you to me, it simply triggers me and makes me cringe. and on that note, to Tired Girl. AS a mad hatter myself, i did wrong, i know. But I never had any emotional attachments, and never uttered any word like that to anyone. 1 AP would tell me she loved me, and i would say, i love my wife, this is a fantasy. in reality we probably wouldnt even like each other, etc, etc...I was able to separate it and realize it, and i think the fact that i was in the same place she was, a person in an A, and didn't ever feel or want to feel love for another makes it that much harder to get over her A. She loved him. She wanted him. She didnt end it, she got caught. The reality is that if he didnt have 4 kids and us 2, and we were just 2 married couples with no attachments, we wouldnt be sitting here discussing my R, I would be on the divorced forum because she would have left me for him. no doubt about it. not to say their relationship would have survived in reality, i highly doubt it, and he would have cheated on her as he did his own W, BUT make no mistake about it, our M would have ended. Yet, I am supposed to forget all this as i continue to R. perhaps a lobotomy may help :)

My suggestion: consider that As can be very different for women. Typically for men it's waist-down, but for women it's waist-up.

Read this, if you haven't yet:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

Men are able to approach sex more casually than women, a factor not only of the patriarchal double standard but also of the difference between having genitals on the outside and having them on the inside. Getting laid for all the wrong reasons is a lot less dangerous than falling in love with all the wrong people.

Men who get caught screwing around are more likely to be honest about the sex than women. Men will confess the full sexual details, even if they are vague about the emotions. Women on the other hand will confess to total consuming love and suicidal desire to die with some man, while insisting no sex ever took place. I would believe that if I'd ever seen a man describe the affair as so consumingly intense from the waist up and so chaste from the waist down. I assume these women are lying to me about what they know they did or did not do, while I assume that the men really are honest about the genital ups and downs—and honestly confused about the emotional ones.

Reading this helped me understand that what I did was not unique, and it wasn't about the AP. The "emotional connection" I felt with him wasn't real.

We often see on here that women have the affairs to meet an emotional component, that is often lacking in THEMSELVES and men have them to meet a sexual component. For myself, I think this generalizing is bullshit, men do it for the validation just as much as women do. You were out there doing it for the same exact reason that your wife was, you were both two very broken people, your wife just happened to get her emotional self very involved in the fantasy. You on the other hand had no problem using other women for your own validating sexual gratification. So who is the better person here? Are you really trying to hold yourself up as the better person because you didn't say I love you?

Look, I had zero emotional investment either, I picked the biggest douchebag I could find because I knew there would be no emotional ties that way. Just how I am built, sounds like you are the same way. My H on the other hand , needs that emotional relationship, it is how he is built. Sucks, but there it is. If I want to make a life with him, I have to find a way around it.

TG, the shrink I quoted seemed 100% about it, but ITA with you that generalizations don't apply to everyone. Remember when some clothing used to be labeled "one size fits all," and they changed it because some bigger people proved them wrong?

There is no OSFA affair, or means of healing from one. Recognizing that my A followed a pattern, and wasn't just "unique and special," was a major wake-up call.