(I have browsed around here a bit, but haven't found a definition of all the acronyms. I've figured some of them out, WW, OP, etc. Is there a list somewhere? I haven't found a search feature yet either...)
She is currently cheating online. I know who the OP is. I haven't confronted WW yet.
I haven't been happy in the marriage for a long time. I've thought about ending it even before knowing that W is a WW. Have stayed together "for the kids".
I see 3 options:
1. Go on pretending I don't know about it. I don't know if this is viable long-term, as it is already eating at me, affecting my concentration at work, etc.
2. Confront WW and try to save the marriage. Not sure I want to do that, as I don't feel liking or love for WW any more. And I'm not sure she would give up OP anyway - probably just get smarter about hiding it.
3. Confront WW and leave the marriage. Traumatic for everyone, especially the kids, but maybe the best in the long-term. Financially not great, but managable. Just not sure I can bring myself to do it.
I'm not not sure I want to dump this on any of my friends. It feels terrible, not knowing what's going to happen, or what I want to happen.
It seems like there are many kind, caring people here who have been through this. Any help or advice would be most welcome.
[This message edited by thad474 at 9:07 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)]
There's a list of acronyms in the General forum at the top.
My best advice that I can give right now as far as confronting is when you do (and you should do it) is to only confront with half of what you know. She'll have to provide the other half so you know that she's being honest. If you go with everything you have and she knows more there's a good chance she won't tell you that extra.
Do not tell her how you found out, just that you did find out. Because if she wants to hold onto this A (affair) she can take it underground then you won't know what is going on and it could look like she has stopped.
Please do not do this. It will only continue to fester and eat you alive. It will only get worse.
This is HUGE possibility. If you're not sure, the best thing would be for you to seek legal advice. Most lawyers have free consultations and it doesn't hurt to know your rights and where you stand. Then you can make a more informed decision.
I understand that divorce is a difficult decision to make. But my line of thought is that just because a family is still together doesn't mean it isn't already broken. Sometimes divorced couples tend to be better parents because the stress of the relationship is gone and now they can focus on the children. Of course this only works when both parents are willing and capable of co-parenting.
You have found the right place my friend. We are all here to help and will do our best to guide you in the best possible direction.
When I first joined in 2009 another SIer said to me "post often, it helps." This is so true. I honestly don't know where I would be without this site.
(((HUGS)))
This will get you going on the abbreviations...http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp
Now then, your options
Option 1 Come on buddy, you know this isn't going to work. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. It's starting to eat away at you. That's only going to get worse, and build anger and resentment, and then it's all going to come out. All that time you will be feeling worse and worse for hiding your feelings.
Option 2 It's what I did. However, whether that is right for you or not only you can answer. The only good news is that you do not need to make an immediate decision. confrontations are never nice, but you can minimise the trauma. Here's a guide to how to confront if that's the decision you make...http://ezeorva.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=472128. Reconciliation IS possible. there are some very happy couples on here. However, it's bloody hard work for everyone and takes years. For that to be an option you really need to believe deep down that there is a spark of love and something worth fighting for, and also believe she is capable of change.
Option 3 Yes, traumatic for everyone. Ironically, the one thing likely to end up with her coming back begging and dropping the OM. Although traumatic for everyone I would argue that you get on the road to healing and health quickest. Again, if you are not ready for this option, then don't push yourself into it. However, bear in mind that divorce is actually rational and sensible option. she has emotionally and physically moved on. What you have left at the moment is just a memory, a convenience. Oh, and and bringing up kids as separated parents is a hell of a lot less painful to the kids than bringing them up in a shattered home filled with lies and distrust.
It sounds like you have detached from her, whether it be years ago or due to the affair. Only you know the answer to that one. I guess you need to have a think about what YOU want in life. right now I wouldn't focus on the marriage, or indeed her. You are in shock. Eat. Drink water. Sleep. Get some excercise. Focus on keeping yourself healthy whilst the shock passes and some clarity emerges. and keep posting. We're always here to listen.
LH
[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 1:25 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=469718
Keep reading and posting here. Gradually, you will achieve clarity about what is right for you. I am going to suggest you find a good therapist to talk with, too. It can be hard to find someone you click with, but it can be invaluable to have someone to talk over your thought processes and figure out how you want to go forward. It will also give you some IRL (in real life) support, if you do not want to talk about it with family or friends.
I also wanted to read a lot of understand more about infidelity. This site has a lot of great info, and the members collectively have a lot of wisdom. In addition, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass is a good primer.
Welcome to SI.
[This message edited by Lyonesse at 2:08 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
As far as Option 1, I think you already know this is not a long term solution. It is often helpful though to go in stealth mode for a little while to learn as much as you can about the affair before confronting. Often many can't go long though, I managed to make it a whole week before confronting my WW.
As far as the other options, you do not need to decide now. Gather your information as best you can, confront, and then take the time to figure this all out before making a decision. You will need to see how your WW reponds, what are her actions, is she remorseful, if she is do you still want to go forward. I know I didn't understand at first but these long term affairs like yours are often different than you would expect. You might think a 10 year affair is difficult to end but many times these long term affairs end more easily than the short term one. Think of it this way, if your WW was "in love" with this OM, why didn't she get to the point where she finally left you for him? You will not know your situation you are fully dealing with until you confront.
So sorry you found your way to us but please know that you are not alone. All good, caring people here that want to help you navigate through the nightmare.
Just some thoughts:
1. Don’t put her out or leave her - yet. You may eventually decide to do, but for now, I say wait. Right now you need to keep a close eye on what’s going on. It’ll be easier to do that if the two of you are still living under the same roof. If you put her out or leave, you’ll be hard-pressed to know what she’s doing, short of hiring an investigator. As long as you’re still together, you can keep your finger on the pulse of her affair and gather some much-needed facts. There’s a lot you need to know about the situation before you can make an intelligent decision about what to do. Continue monitoring your wife’s activities, attitude, the frequency of her contact with her lover and any other details concerning her affair. Write everything down in a journal for future use. Also bear in mind that as long as she’s still there, you have a chance to work things out. 2. Don’t ignore her affair or pretend it’s not happening. Going into denial will only make matters worse. As traumatic as it is to find out that your wife has been cheating, you need to face the reality of the situation. Ignoring her infidelity gives her the go-ahead to continue her affair. Pretending it’s not happening will make her think she’s getting away with her cheating, or give her the impression that she has your silent approval. At some point you should inform your wife that you know about her affair and make it clear that you want it to stop. The sooner you confront her about her cheating, the better. Affairs thrive in secrecy. Sometimes, just telling your wife you know about it, will be enough to put a stop to her affair.
3. Confront Choose the time and place carefully so you can discuss the affair at length without interruption. DO NOT ask your wife if she’s cheating. CHEATERS ALWAYS LIE. Present the evidence you’ve gathered that proves she’s having an affair - names, dates, places, times, absences, phone calls, physical evidence, etc. Then ask her some pointed questions about her affair: why she did it, how it started, how long it’s been going on, how she feels about the AP, what she intends to do now that you know.
Listen carefully to her answers so you can accurately assess the situation. Then you’ll be able to make a wise decision about what course of action to take.
You may be unsure exactly what you’re going to do and that is completely normal. You don’t have to decide today but you do need to bring it to light.
I give you a lot of credit, as there is no way I could have stayed with my FWH for weeks knowing but not saying anything. I am much too impulsive/emotional
Your children deserve a healthy and loving environment. That can be as on family unit or in two.
But it It can’t be under the umbrella of infidelity that is full of lies, betrayal and dishonesty.
Good luck and keep us posted. We are rooting for you.
[This message edited by 1Faith at 2:40 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
Re: No search - of course that makes sense, I wasn't thinking.
Re: Option 1. I know that's not a long-term solution.
Re: Kids. 9 and 12. Old enough to understand what's going on. One just entering adolescence, which is hard enough on its own.
Re: Counseling. I did actually call my company's confidential Employee Helpline and got an appointment with a professional counselor. I did not find that helpful. Maybe just didn't click with that person and need to keep looking. But it's limited what I can do while still in stealth mode.
I will look at the resources you've pointed out. I didn't know if this (posting here) would help, but it is helping - a surprising amount, already. Again, thanks for all the support.
Thad
[This message edited by thad474 at 9:04 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)]
You can do it as gently as possible but do it.
It also brings the A out on the other side and causes the AP to decide what he wants. You are causing the pain and the hurt they already did that. This is their's to own, NOT yours.
Get into counseling and also when the time is right depending on the outcome, get your kids counseling too.
So sorry you are dealing with this. Please take care of yourself.
Healthy hugs
Should you fight for the marriage? In principle, I say that you should always fight for the marriage, but it's tricky. When I found out about my wife's affair, I tried everything I could to fight to save the marriage, and pretty much everything I did backfired. Lots of people here encouraged me to make a 180 (I'm sure you'll hear a lot about what this is), and I probably should have listened to them.
It all depends on what you WW's attitude is when you confront her. Is she contrite? Repentant? Are there any signs that she has hope for the marriage or that she might be willing to work on it with you? If so, then you should do everything you can. Even if it doesn't end well, at least you'll know that you did all you can.
But if she is unrepentant, remorseful and uninterested in working on the marriage, then you should should take steps in the opposite direction, moving towards separation or divorce.
I was paralyzed for a long time by my fear of what divorce would do to my daughter, but eventually I realized that it wasn't my choice anyway. It wasn't in my power to save our family for my daughter. Divorce was something that was being inflicted on me and her by my WW, and my "fighting for the marriage" was just making things worse.
So in summary, what you do will all depend on what she does when you confront her, which is one of many reasons why you need to do it.
[This message edited by crisp at 7:42 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
In my country you can't. I would see a lawyer about your rights - particularly about the kids.
I guess deciding what to do will all depend on when you tell your WW that you know of the affair. You can't save a marriage if both parties aren't committed to that course of action. I tried to R and as I have said before it was like trying to bail out a sinking boat with a hole filled bucket. He wasn't willing to work on it.
So confront and then make your decisions. Please consider telling the other BS, the realtionship between the AP and the other BS stopped being just between them the day the A started. Sorry it affects both families and you both have a right to know. Plus if you do decide to R then you are going to want another set of eyes making it harder for them to slip back into old habits.
My son was 8 when we split, he is turning out just fine. We both act as parents and make sure he knows that mom and dad love him and it is okay to love mom and dad. Don't underestimate your kids, they know when things aren't right and they are pretty resillient.
Oh and check with a lawyer about her moving the kids away, you may have some recourse in that area.
Take care of yourself.
[This message edited by ninebark at 6:44 AM, June 7th (Friday)]
Brother, I feel for you. But this is an area many of the Betrayed husbands can help (why, because we made tons of mistakes that we hope you can avoid).
So far, you are very impressive. You have a degree of detachment because of the crappy marriage that most of us did not find until well into the process. That detachment is your second best friend. It will help you make good decisions.
Your best friend will be the anger that will come. It will help you make decisions you are afraid to make now. It will give you strength to move mountains to heal yourself when you think healing yourself will cost you your kids or marriage or whatever. (In reality, it will only help you if you channel it correctly)
If you made it this far, here are some steps you want to take if you have not
1. SECURE ALL YOUR EVIDENCE. Do not assume that she does not know you have caught on to her affair. If you back up her emails and chat logs on a flash drive and label it evidence, you can guess it will be gone pretty quickly. Put the hard copies in a secure spot where she cannot get to them and the electronic version in another.
2. SEE A LAWYER. You think she will be able to move and take the kids. Well, a good divorce attorney can put the squash on that. Disruption of the lives of children is often frowned upon by the court. Seeing a lawyer does not mean filing, but it does give you knowledge. And knowledge is power!!
3. CONFRONT WITH FORCE when you have enough evidence and a plan of action. At a minimum, here is what I recommend: - This is not a negotiation. This is simply stating what will happen if the family is to stay together. Reveal to her that you know all, but verbally repeat only a limited portion of the evidence. NEVER reveal your sources (if asked, tell her you were informed. Period) Only question her if you need an answer now. Otherwise, let her sit and stew in the fact that you know it all and she has no cover for her adultery. - Present your conditions. If you want to keep the family together, he goes. No contact letter (draft it for her), admission to the other betrayed spouse, individual counseling for her, MC for you both, whatever else) This is not a negotiation, so when she pleads, tell her she has had ten years to betray her vows. She has no more time. It will throw her off her game of deception. - Have a separation agreement draft ready for her if she chooses him or says she needs time. She needs no time. But she does need to know you are serious. Let her know you can have her packed and out of the house in minutes. Give her your lawyer’s contact information and let her know all further communications are about the kids and finances and not to let the door hit her in the ass on her way out. (Yes, you cannot enforce that, but she will probably not know that) - You need to have already sent the other betrayed spouse some communication informing them of the affair. Do not tell your wife of this, just do it. It is not only morally the correct thing to do, but the shock-and-awe effect on the other side will blow this thing up. - Get yourself a VAR to record the confrontation. She may decide later to trump up false DV charges. It is a frequent, but slimy trick that some WW use.
Above all else, remember you control your destiny. Not the destiny of her or the marriage or the kids. Only yours. Make the best decisions you can for yourself and the rest will fall into place.
Strength to you.
I would say get to an attorney ASAP. Get their advice, and find out what your rights are. You don't really need to keep digging you have proof enough. Now it's time to call her on it. Of course, I would recommend doing this once you know your rights. In many states if the custody is 50-50 they put limitations on how far apart they spouses can live, like within the kids school district. The kids come first.
Keep taking care of you, and putting you first. Make sure you are eating, sleeping, and drinking enough water. This can be difficult early on.
Figure out if you want to R. What your requirements are, lay them out in a matter of fact way with consequences if she is not willing to comply. Stick to these. This puts the power in your court, you will no longer allow her to lie and manipulate you.
((((and strength))))
It doesn't surprise me you haven't been happy for a long time; when your wife left the marriage, she erected a wall between the two of you. There can be no emotional intimacy in the presence of secrets and lies. And a marriage devoid of emotional intimacy is not much of a marriage at all.
I, too, learned my spouse was a long-time cheater. There was something about the willingness to live a lie long-term that made it especially difficult to recover and reconcile.
Long-term cheating casts a shadow on everything that came before discovery. You find yourself thinking, "Oh, my God. Christmas? She was cheating!" or "No wonder she didn't care about our anniversary," or "Wow--that's why she kept her phone on during our vacation." Or whatever. I am sure you know this all too well.
A lying cheater makes everything that came before discovery a lie, in the BS's (betrayed spouse's) mind.
Here's the thing: you don't have to decide what to do with that information today. You don't have to decide tomorrow. And you don't have to decide ANY time soon.
You've been married a long time. You can take the time you need to sit with this and think about what you want.
You say you were unhappy before you found out about the infidelity. As I mentioned, that's not unusual. You had a wife who was invested elsewhere. It's natural that you'd experience dissonance---even without knowing why.
Now you do know why. What you don't know is how deep your wife is in to this lifestyle. Or whether she is either willing OR able to be monogamous. Or ---and this is the most important, so pay attention to it-- whether you even WANT to attempt R (reconciliation) knowing what you now know.
If you do want to reconcile and work to create a meaningful, emotionally intimate marriage, you both will have to learn the skills necessary to face these things, heal from them, and move forward constructively. Conflict avoidance won't work. So, in your shoes, I'd make IC (individual counseling) a priority. It can help you get through this crisis AND help you work through your stuff so that you can do the work necessary. (And yes, it's grossly unfair that you have been put in the position where this work is necessary--and anger about this is normal and natural.)
MC (marriage counseling) with an non-remorseful spouse is emotionally dangerous to the BS, IMO (in my opinion). I'd hold off until you both have had some time in IC.
Confrontation and conflict are difficult for most of us. Our cheating spouses exploit this, relying on us to respond the ways that cause us the least discomfort. Unfortunately, conflict avoidance enables the cheater.
When you're ready---and this doesn't mean ready to make long-term decisions, but ready to let your wife know you're aware of her cheating-- I would keep it very simple: "<Insert name>, you have been cheating on me. I know with whom, where, when, and how. I would like for you to tell me about this---about all your infidelities, including online cheating. We can't move forward constructively until you do."
She may or may not have empathy for you. Some WSs (wayward spouses) are immediately remorseful and get the pain they've caused. Others do not, at the beginning. Others are completely unable to form it---ever. You may have an idea where, on the spectrum, your wife lies. (This knowledge may be feeding the conflict avoidance--avoidance is a way of postponing rejection and the requisite decision-making that follows revelation of what you know.)
Before you confront, form in your mind your must-haves for reconciliation. These often include no contact (of any kind) with affair partners, transparency (openness to having one's means of communication examined---so, access to passwords, access to computers and phones, open disclosure of attempts by APs --affair partners--to contact the WS, and so on), IC (individual counseling), and MC (after some headway has been made in IC---such as the WS learning some new coping tools to replace the really flawed one of cheating).
You can add your own conditions---it's your reconciliation, so it's on your terms. Some things may be completely non-negotiable; other things may have some room for bargaining. Decide, in advance, what is NON-negotiable, so that you don't get manipulated into a corner where you are uncomfortable. Remember, your spouse has the right to say no, just as you do.
Reconciliation is hard work. It will require 100 percent from BOTH of you. (Of course, early on, you don't have 100 percent to give to anything other than getting through the day---but even that is work to heal from infidelity.)
A word about "staying together for the kids." It's bullshit.
Stay together if you want. But please, do not use on your children as the rationale. It's misguided, and it's dishonest, and it's grossly unfair. As the child of conflict-avoidant parents who "stayed together for the kids" (and then for many decades after there was a "kid" on the landscape), it is a HUGE burden. Even if it remains unspoken, kids KNOW they're the "reason" for their unhappy parents remaining married.
But here's the thing: it's a lie adults in bad marriages tell themselves to make their own inaction palatable.
You're not doing anything for the kids. If you were, you'd be choosing to do whatever you could to provide a safe, loving, non-tumultuous home for them. Even if that is a safe, loving, non-tumultuous homes that is separate from your wife.
I don't say any of this unkindly, truly. I "stayed for the kids," too, for a while. And I suspect that, like me (and many others), you will soon realize that this is not the real reason. The real reason is fear---and at some point, you will realize that the truth (no matter how scary) can no longer be avoided. (It's lots easier to "stay for the kids" when your dissatisfaction is of vague etiology. Now you have concrete evidence.)
It's a rollercoaster, and I'm sorry you've been thrust onto this ride. It sucks. But it can be the catalyst for changes that, ultimately, are really positive---especially if you've been unhappy long-term. I'm not saying that there's anything positive about experiencing infidelity---just that you can take the horror you've been handed and emerge not only intact, but in a better place than before (since before wasn't all that great). It's a lousy catalyst, but catalyze, it does.
It's up to you how to respond to this gut-punch. Do so with open eyes and an open heart---but with caution. Your wife does not have your best interests, or the kids', in mind right now. So you have to guard your heart and theirs. The inclination to just white-knuckle and avoid may be strong--but until a light is shined on the infidelity, it will thrive, and you will not.
Good luck to you--- I hope you will stick around. This is a wonderful, supportive place.
[This message edited by solus sto at 1:17 PM, June 7th (Friday)]
Part of me wants to confront WW tonight. I want to see how she reacts, if she is truthful, remorseful in the face of knowing that I know. But I haven't yet talked to a solicitor. Complicating things is that home town for both of us is overseas. So I think I need legal counsel on both sides of the pond.
Thanks again for all the support and advice.
[This message edited by thad474 at 9:10 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)]
I have sent you a pm
I'm not surprised you feel detached from your M. If the A has been going on for 10+ years, your WW has been checked out of the M for at least that long. It's not shocking that you aren't feeling a lot of love for her at this point.
That's one of the reasons you don't have to make a decision about R right now. Once the A is out in the open and both of you are in the position to confront the actual state of your M things may look very different. My FWH wasn't in a long-term A, but he was emotionally detached for years and I, too, had thought of D before I found out about the A. However, we chose R and it has worked for us. It doesn't for everyone, but you can't predict how either of you will feel after you confront.
You'll know which way to move when the time comes. Just trust that for now.
I want to encourage you to tell the OBS. It may seem like you are the one bringing pain to his M, but the truth is that the pain is already there. Just like you felt something was wrong in your M before you knew about the A, the chances are very high that the other BS is dealing with those same emotions. But she doesn't know what is wrong and may very well be blaming herself. She deserves the truth.
That's the higher level, moral reason to tell. The other reason is much more gritty... Telling will force the AP to deal with the fallout in his own home and, possibly, cause the A to crumble to dust. Affairs thrive on secrecy and fantasy. The antidote is a strong dose of harsh reality.
"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces
I've been on these boards for 2yrs and have never read a compelling reason not to. The OM could be cheating with someone else. As you know, all cheaters use protection. Not. She could be exposed to a disease. The OM could be diverting funds from the family, my WW did. Do you think the BW really wants to live a lie? Let her live free. With the truth.
"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."
