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Shockedman posted 6/7/2013 08:59 AM

You are all so good at helping me read between the lines. My WW just sen me this email.... this all sucks so bad. I hate this an wish to fast forward my life! I want to beleive it, but just can't. She still is in the fog, no doubt.

I would like you to know that I'm working very hard within myself, with my therapist, family and God to work through this. I've come to some resolve with some things. One thing I can not do is forsake the work that I've done a long my life's journey already. I've worked so hard to deal with the obstacles to come out as a healthy individual. I truly believe that I am. I've come so far with so many things and won't blame my childhood as this I believe, would be a crutch, an excuse. I've done some work currently to see where Im at with codependency etc. Things related to being a child of an alcoholic and that truly has nothing to do with it as I've come out of those patterns and you have seen the work I've done to do so. I will also not forsake 17 years. What we've learned a long our journey about each other. The obstacles we did make our way through together. And for some reason who we were as a couple, got lost in the chaos of the last two years. We often worked through life together, we always worked on our relationship with open ears and hearts. So 2 years of alienation on both of our parts, severely hurt our way of being, the healthy way of being. We, as a couple, became unhealthy in all of it and then I made a very wrong choice within that time period. For that, I'm so beyond sorry. Sorry doesn't even cut it.
I'm so sorry that I hurt you. But please know, that my basic makeup of me is still there. Because I sinned in our marriage doesn't mean that I'm a totally different person. What that means, is now I have to work with God within the person that I truly am to work toward forgiveness of myself for that decision. I'm not in a fog, I'm not oblivious to what I've done. I'm truly working hard to come to some resolve so I can communicate with you again.

tushnurse posted 6/7/2013 09:15 AM

Wow a whole lot of I's in that statement. I'm not sure if she is starting to get it, or if she is fishing for an attemtpt to manipulate you.

Guard your heart.

If you respond in any way at all I would lay out your rules of R. Very clearly and simply, and if she chooses to not abide by them to not bother contacting you unless it has to do with money or the business.

These types of notes from the WS can take such an emotional toll on you, it give you some hope, but caution. Don't fall for it hook line and sinker, becuase the fish on the end of that line is most likely a drum, or gar.

((((and strength))))

Shockedman posted 6/7/2013 09:24 AM

Thanks tushnurse for your thoughts. I have no plans to even respond at this point. 2 weeks after d-day and this is what I get? Of course I know she loves me and we did have a good marriage for most of the time, but until I see something that isn't riddled with blame shifting, I have nothing left to give. It is early in the process, I know. But as I said, each and everyday that passes, I step further way. I don't want to and don't feel I deserve the pain. Anger is very real in this situation as I was forced into this all and had NO choice. I plan to make NO decision in the coming days, BUT if I were forced to say at this moment what I would do, I would walk away.

confused615 posted 6/7/2013 09:25 AM

When a wayward,this soon after dday,starts talking about forgiving themselves,that's a sure sign that they have no idea the magnitude of the damage they have done.

It's all about her.

rivenheart posted 6/7/2013 09:28 AM

Just ignore it. Really, that's the smartest and best option for you. Do not engage with her psychobabble. She is not attempting to communicate with you; she's just thinking (her dysfunctional, delusional thoughts) "out loud."

Leave it alone.

doesitgetbetter posted 6/7/2013 09:52 AM

Ditto what confused said. We're over 5 years out, and my H is STILL trying to forgive himself for cheating on me. I've forgiven him long ago, but he is still working on it. My H also truly gets it though.

Your WW's letter put blame on the M, and then she "made a very wrong choice". What a pretty way to put it. Doesn't sound like what you would probably call it, or any other BS would call it. She has no grasp of the magnitude at all. I also think it's quite telling how she proclaims her health in more than one place. If she was a healthy person, she would never have cheated to begin with. She will need to stop deluding herself in order to really work through this.

What does it mean? It means she's nowhere near ready to put the effort into it that she needs. Oh, but she's healthy.

brokenblackbird posted 6/7/2013 09:54 AM

I agree with everyone here. No need to respond.

Shockedman posted 6/7/2013 10:27 AM

I totally agree. If she were "healthly" like she says, then that is even worse to me. that she means she is a cold hearted bitch. She is no where near healthy. I did not respond. She followed up with:
"It is not that I don't want to respect your boundaries. Can you believe, after 17 years that we cant even have a conversation? Continued alienation? Or is it simply just that we need time?"

I responded with: "We need time" Thats it.

I don't know how much time she will need to come to reality and she may never and I have to accept that. As I already said, as each day passes, I come to new realizations and new truths. When she is finally at the point of even being ready to understand her actions and REAL truths, I will be long gone. I wish SO badly it that wasn't the case. I believe I could have and would have been able to get past this. I was very optimistic at first, but now I realize I was just delusional as well. I was/still am in BS fog. Facing reality is really hard....

[This message edited by Shockedman at 10:28 AM, June 7th (Friday)]

solus sto posted 6/7/2013 10:46 AM

I... I'm... myself... my... I've... I've...I've... I...I...I've...I... I've... I'm... I've... I've... I... we've... we...we... We...we... We... I... I'm... me... I'm... I... me... I... I'm... I... I... I'm... I'm... I've... I'm...I
There are more than SIX Is for every we in her poor-me missive. The meager Wes are in a brief segment of her manipulation-fest that deflects responsibility for her actions. The gist? You, as a couple, lost your way---because "somehow" you grew apart. (Odd how infidelity does that to a marriage...)

But now, lucky devil, you get the "new and improved" wife who now has done all the hard work and forgives herself. (The implication: you will be expected to forgive her, too--and post-haste. Expect, quite soon, to start hearing about how things would be all right if you would just forgive. Trust me, the Why won't you just GET OVER IT? is traveling not far behind.)

She has no clue. The work has not even begun. Not the work she has to do for herself, and not the work she has to do if she wishes to R.

I would not respond to this in any way. (Though in reality I did, for quite a while---so there's no judgment at all if you do. Just keep in mind, as you do, that a woman who IS working hard to get it would not be focusing on self-forgiveness and other conclusions to feel better about herself, but would be struggling with the immense pain she's caused.)

ETA: I think, in future communications (if any), you should take more ownership of YOUR decisions. "We need time" implies that there IS a "we." Right now, there is not. Your marriage is over, and you are working hard to determine whether it is worth your investment--emotionally, and with your heart--to build a NEW marriage with the woman who took a wrecking ball to your first. When she needles you about your lack of response, say, "I need more time." You might even tell her what you need time for: to decide whether you choose to build a new marriage with a woman whose problem-solving toolkit includes leaving her marriage to build relationships with other men. You know, because that always makes things better.

(But really, crickets. I just took far too long to develop cricket skill.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:05 AM, June 7th (Friday)]

Skan posted 6/7/2013 11:14 AM

Crickets. Very small, chirping ones. She's essentially said nothing that deserves an answer.

wonderingbull posted 6/7/2013 11:45 AM

Wow.... She's pretty damn delusional...

All she's doing is throwing the dog (you) a bone...


Shockedman posted 6/7/2013 12:17 PM

I agree. I even thought I should have said "I need more time", but I said we. I guess because I am still in BS fog a bit.

What is the crickets analogy you keep speaking of?

She is terribly delsuional and has been and will alwyas be good at manipulating me and others around her. I need time to decide how this is all going to go down. I have (for the most part ) already given up an any chance for R. She is in so DEEP and is so stubborn that it will likely take years for her to come to her senses (if she ever does) and I will long gone.

Yeah...healthy people have affairs. That, in many ways, is worse. For me, some mental issues would make it a bit better and more tolerable to get over. Now she is just saying "I am a selfish bitch, who chose to have and affair because I WANTED too"

[This message edited by Shockedman at 12:19 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

confused615 posted 6/7/2013 12:22 PM

^^That is actually very close to the truth...cheaters have a variety of reasons for cheating...but the bottom line is almost always..they did it because they're selfish and because they could.

sailorgirl posted 6/7/2013 12:24 PM

So 2 years of alienation on both of our parts, severely hurt our way of being, the healthy way of being. We, as a couple, became unhealthy in all of it

Holy crap. Convenient how she can forget that she criticized, disrespected and deceived you, while you actually worked your ass off in IC and in the marriage.

now I have to work with God within the person that I truly am to work toward forgiveness of myself for that decision

Sure, she can make navel-gazing and self-forgiviness her priorities. I guess that's a lot easier than taking full responsibility for your pain and the devastation of the marriage.

I'm truly working hard to come to some resolve so I can communicate with you again.

Probable translation: Stay tuned for future monologues about my open heartedness, healthiness, and God-like forgiveness of myself. Do not expect me to ask how you are doing or imagine how this is affecting you because, damn it--this is all about my journey to find me me me!

I agree with crickets, unless you feel like sending a simple list of your requirements for R.

k9lover1 posted 6/7/2013 12:24 PM

I read what she wrote and then some of the responses you got.

I got a completely different vibe from her note. To me it sounds like:

She is sorry;
She doesn't want to use childhood, etc as an excuse;
She doesn't want to throw away 17 years;
She knows she screwed up big time;
She's trying to find a way to work toward R.

Just my opinion.

I know you're hurt, but in her own feeble way, I think she's hurting too. And I think she's starting to realize that she let the marriage slip away.

sailorgirl posted 6/7/2013 12:29 PM

Oh, and crickets is slang for silence. As in, "Nothing but the sound of crickets chirping."

And btw, Shockedman, I think the BS fog stays pretty clear of you! You rock.

SuperDuperWonderboy posted 6/7/2013 13:17 PM

Hey Shocked. I don't normally post too much in the JFO forum but had to chime in here.

I don't know your story, I checked one of your recent posts and saw that your dday was about two whole weeks ago. I can't believe you haven't just forgiven her and moved on with this yet! Can't hold onto the past forever right? I mean, it's been over two whole weeks. (insert sarcastic "f-that-shit" here)

I agree with those who point out that this email reads all about her, and shows that she has no damn clue about the enormity of screwing away 17 years.

As far as her not using her childhood as an if you aren't going to use your childhood as an excuse...then don't bring it up. Don't bring up the fact that you're a child of an alcoholic. Simply by pointing that out..she is using it as an excuse.

Good to hear her say she's not in the fog..I mean, just two weeks ago, she was telling you that she loved the OM..right? But now she's decided she done the work and isn't in the fog..that's convenient. And, for lack of a better word, bullshit.

I see a lot of blaming you for this. "2 years of alienation on both our parts"...correct me if I am wrong..but wasn't she cheating on you during at least 9 months of this? But sure, it's your fault that the marriage suffered while she was living a lie.

My response is probably coming across as a little heavy handed. But I went through similar shit when I found out about my wife's affair. Eventually she pulled her head out, but she tried this same tactic with me early on. Blaming me, telling me to get over it. Blaming me some more.

You were in the same didn't cope with it by cheating. It's not your fault man. Don't take the blame for it.

Shockedman posted 6/7/2013 13:59 PM


Thanks for your comment. Always interested in other BS who shared the same experience. My WW was abused as a child and I know that her past had something to do with it. I think she knows it too. She is extremely prideful and that will be her downfall. As she said, she isn't in a fog and she is "healthy". What the hell? I guess I am the one being delusional, right? I should just understand this and move forward. F that. Yes, she calims to have "checked out" 1 year ago and has been in the affair for 7-8 months, during which I tried my ass off to make the marriage better. No wonder it was getting any better?

I will continue to push forward and live my own life as she stalls in her delusion. Likely 2+ years from now she will start to realize the gravity and enormity of her actions and be able to start to heal, but I will be long gone. How long did your WW take to get her head out of her ass? My WW is SO stubborn, I think it will take her forever....

[This message edited by Shockedman at 2:02 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

SuperDuperWonderboy posted 6/7/2013 14:15 PM

Child abuse is a terrible thing. I am not trying to minimize its damage, as my own child was abused by a care giver. That being said, there are many child abuse survivors who remain in faithful marriages.

Yup, big surprise the marriage wasn't getting better while she was having an affair. Convenient how the wayward mind still blames you for the "alienation on both our parts." Nothing new there.

In my situation, it took my wife a good 6 months before she fully pulled her head out. The first month was terrible, though. She blamed the affair on me, told me that I could never make her feel as special as he could...yadda yadda (he was married with 2 small children--real stand up guy).

After a couple of months she started trying, but it was still half-assed. A lot of blame shifting and rugsweeping. "We just need to move on" I think she finally "got it" when I served her with the divorce papers at about 6 months.

But it's been a long process for both of us. I had to learn how to deal with the betrayal, just as she had to fully extract her head from arse. The first year was really rocky. But, we are at about 18 months now...and things are going really well.

Just remember, you can't make someone come to their senses. You can control you...and that 's it. Accepting that is pretty freeing.

circlingthedrain posted 6/7/2013 14:35 PM


Her saying she is not in a fog concerns me. Did you use the term fog to her ? If not I'd be concerned that she knows you are here and is reading your posts.

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