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As the years go by 'reality' is hitting more. He had an actual A

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MrsDoubtfire posted 6/7/2013 11:44 AM

My profile explains our timeline in relation to when I suspected, found out and found myself in a false R for months and months so I won't rehash all that as you can read it if you want ..... But....

It's been over 3 years since we R, (4 years since false R started and 6 years since his A and this roller coaster started)

Year 1 was spent getting over the shock and hurt and learning all aspects of FWH and OW LTA

Year 2 was attempting to survive counselling and enjoying life as a stronger couple than we ever were pre fwh's A.

Year 3 was when I was diagnosed with PTSD and took steps to 'get well again.

Now? I'm FINALLY being struck with the knowledge FWH screwed someone else for almost 3 years and I find I'm not okay with that!

Don't get me wrong. FWH is one of the WS's who got it, who owned his shit and who has walked through heaven and hell trying to amend for what he did.

But, he had an A and I'm not okay with that fact.

I think about aspects of their A every day again now..... The more normality has returned the more I find myself thinking, "did you do/ say that with/ to her?" whenever he does/says anything!!

The first few months and the first year were abnormal times. When I think back now I didn't get angry, I didn't do anything! People kept telling me that the anger would come in a blinding rage.... But it never has.

And now, I have more questions than I have answers simply because EVERY situation has the capacity to remind me that he had an A and I'm not okay with that fact!! He's answered each and every question as I've asked it but now I have a hundred more...

Gaaah!! Time heals? Really? Granted that gut sucking pain has eased so very much..... But I find I think about the fact FWH had a LTA more now than I ever did and did I mention that I'm not okay with that fact?

FWH has noticed these last couple of months and keeps reassuring me. He also asks what's causing me to distance myself from him now? What can I say?

"Gee honey- right after Dday you were my biggest trigger but that soon eased but guess what? You have gone back to being my biggest trigger again!"

Knowing that would probably devastate him!

It's like that plain of lethal flatness is back. I don't want to S and I don't want to D but I cannot reconcile with the fact FWH had an A and I have finally come to a place of understanding where I realise that I don't want to be M to someone who fucked someone else day after day after day after day after fucking month for almost 3 years REGARDLESS of whether he treated her like dirt and didn't see her for weeks on end etc!!!!!

I need advice, I need wisdom here and possibly I need 2x4's.

Is this normal ??

ETA, I really apologise for using the F word but it fits so I'll leave it in

[This message edited by MrsDoubtfire at 11:47 AM, June 7th (Friday)]

MoreWould posted 6/7/2013 12:01 PM

Mrs D

I am so sorry for you. I think this might be a side effect of fucking PTSD. OK, I said it, you can drop the F-bomb as often as you need here.

In our sitch, FWWs A was over 30 years ago. No Dr Glass or SI to guide us, and MCs were worse than worthless re infidelity at the time. Rugswept, Revenged, R'd, "Got over it", had kids, still married and glad we are.

Then, I had a brutal PTSD attack triggered by two coworkers' A, and took a second ride on the roller coaster. Quicker, but just as brutal as the first time.

Got FWW (now, just W) to help me work through it, and she was much better than the first time, even if "I don't remember" deserves a bit more respect than it did the first time when events were fresh.

But here's the thing, some of this shit, fresh for the second time, I don't know if I can live with. Loving W totally mystified, like "You got over this a long, long time ago, why it is suddenly not OK anymore?" Actually, I can't blame her, but it is what it is. Sounds a lot like you, and sounds a lot like PTSD. Damn this sucks.

unfound posted 6/7/2013 12:06 PM

sounds like there's still some unresolved anger going on. also sounds like your H is stepping up and trying to help you through this time.

it sucks when you're brain gets soley focused on that realization so far out. and it's hard to broaden that focus to all the good that's happened since then, and where your M is NOW.

"Gee honey- right after Dday you were my biggest trigger but that soon eased but guess what? You have gone back to being my biggest trigger again!

yeah, that might be devastating, but if it's the truth, then it's best to share it with him. maybe find a more gentle way to say it, but personally, I don't think it's mean or nasty or anything but what you're feeling right now.

those thoughts do come up, and can from time to time years after. it's important to own those thoughts, and also remember how hard he's worked, how hard the both of you have worked. if you truly believe he's remorseful, it might be a good time to revisit counseling for you (if you did it after dday) or revisit how the two of you worked through the same shock and realizations after dday.

talk with him. you can work through this together.

Tred posted 6/7/2013 12:08 PM

Mrs. D,

I wish I had advice, but I don't. I do understand though. I've been seeing a brain trauma expert for the last 5 months for PTSD. I don't know if you get well again, not in the sense that you can accept this. I'm just trying to find a way to live with it. I don't know if there is a normal in my future.

Rebreather posted 6/7/2013 12:13 PM

Uhhh, maybe I might have Facebook stalked the OW yesterday. Randomly, I was pissed off for the same reason. I'm six years out. I usually am ok. But then I saw her on a balcony in Maui standing over the beach where we spent our MFing honeymoon. Really? Really?! Why did she have to be THERE? Why does it look like she lost weight, and maybe got new boobs? Total self inflicted mindfuck.

Occasionally, it will just COME OUT OF THE BLUE.

But last night I was thinking it is kind of like any type of loss or grief. My friend Jimmy was killed the night before we left for college, in 1986. And occasionally I will still get a moment of SHOCK that he is gone. He didn't get to live his life, make his mom a grandmother, and see the rest of us accomplish all we have. It's just so UNFAIR.

Maybe your lack of anger early on is coming out now? I think if anger isn't a part of your healing, it can be a problem.

I've never been 6 years out before. I have no idea what is normal. I'm happy most of the time. Are you? Perhaps acceptance comes in waves, like grief does.

It happened. It's part of our history, our story, our lives. I don't want it to be. It's unfair. But it *is*.

All I can say is to keep turing toward him. Ensure he is still worthy of you. And I think you should talk to him about how you are feeling. Don't shield him. He made this your reality. He should share it with you.

PinkJeepLady posted 6/7/2013 12:23 PM

(((Mrs. D)))
May I add a quick 2 cents here?
Hell no, it's not freakin' (don't mind the f bomb but I am more comfy with freakin') ok that he had an A!
It's great that he has walked heaven and hell, I really do admire people who own up to their mistakes. To me when you say, "it's not ok", means that you are being true to your values and convictions. You are being truthful to yourself. It's not OK and never will be ok with you for your H or my H or anyone else to cheat. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't think what you are saying is about getting a D at all, I think you are simply saying it's not ok and it still bothers you. It's OK to say it's not OK, in my opinion.
I completely understand about H being the actual trigger, strangest thing isn't it? Somedays I wake up and look over and think, "what the hell are you still here for", but then I want to be close to him. I find it confusing for sure.
I do wonder if you are asking the same questions now or are they different? Have you ever tried writing them down and then taking a look the next day to be sure you still want to ask them? I am all for getting the facts, believe me, but I have had success with writing them down at this point. Sometimes I will still feel the need for an answer and then sometimes I don't care so much, so I throw the paper away.
Just want you to know you are sure not alone with your thoughts. I am wishing you BOTH the best on your journey out of this nightmare!
Take care of yourself!

so_lost posted 6/7/2013 12:46 PM

I totally understand being 8 years out myself. After an extremely stressful year, I fell back into thinking about my FWH's affair non-stop. I felt like I had made a mistake by staying despite him being 100% remorseful. We now have two kids and have worked so hard for so long at healing so leaving was not the option I wanted. I sought counseling.

The counselor seems to think I trigger back to the affair so I don't have to deal with issues in the present. Some of these issues are ones we had pre-affair ie I wanted my husband to spend more time with me and look what happened when I expressed my feelings to him back then. I feel if I express myself now he'll just go and cheat on me again so...I go back to my safe zone, the affair. I can get mad at him and put up my wall. That way I'm protected from future harm, right? Well, sorta. It's making me miserable in the process!

What's helped me is realizing I've been behind a wall of varying heights for the last 8 years. I've really started focusing on the present and trying to stay here. I'm trying to trust him with my heart again. I'm trying to forgive him. What's helped me get closer to forgiveness is empathy. Neither of them would've accepted their behavior towards each other in a real relationship. It was about every thing but love. It kind of makes me feel sad for them. Thank god I don't walk around with that baggage. It's hard mental work. Some days I'm better then others...but I keep trying. (((MrsDoubtfire)))

rachelc posted 6/7/2013 13:58 PM


I'll have to admit that this thread scares me a little, as I've followed many of your posts and you seem to be so together, inspirational and your attitude has been something to shoot for.

i'm so sorry you're going through this. Are you still going to IC and might this be a residual affect of the PTSD or just, you know, more acceptance issues?

I so understand the issue of not wanting to S or D but not wanting this as part of your marital history either. It's the shit that comes with it. What would your life look like without him in it?

Alex CR posted 6/7/2013 14:11 PM

(((Mrs.Doubtfire))) First, the F*&k word is so helpful...please use as necessary.

Sorry you are feeling this way....I am not as far out as you so I can't offer advice from my experience, but I wonder if not going through the anger stage is something you might need to do.

For me, anger and rage were a daily event about 6-9 months out from DDay....It was really year three before I came to 'acceptance'....that this is our life with all its warts and scars among the good memories.

Working this out with your H is really important .....although time has passed, that doesn't mean the pain of betrayal has and as he has been a WS who 'got it', there's more he needs to get to help you through this stage.

I broke a stash of dishes almost 10 months out...smashing them against the wall, one after the other, swearing and screaming as I threw each one. Scared the heck of my H but it felt damn good to me. I felt like something ugly crawled out of me that night.

After that, the anger just wasn't as intense and the rage almost non-existent.

You don't need 2x4's but what you might need is to break some 2x4s.....

Notmetoo2011 posted 6/7/2013 14:12 PM

It's like that plain of lethal flatness is back. I don't want to S and I don't want to D but I cannot reconcile with the fact FWH had an A and I have finally come to a place of understanding where I realise that I don't want to be M to someone who fucked someone else day after day after day after day after fucking month for almost 3 years REGARDLESS of whether he treated her like dirt and didn't see her for weeks on end etc!!!!

I can sooo relate to this ^^^. Sorry I don't have any great advice or insight but know you are not alone in your feelings. Maybe IC could help as someone else suggested.

((( MrsDoubtfire)))

annb posted 6/7/2013 14:13 PM

Mrs. D, glad you posted this.

It sounds like you might be experiencing PTSD symptoms. I have it, and it can be f*cking brutal, I think it got worse with time.

Eight years out, had a bad morning, sent WH a text that I "am divorcing his cheating ass." An A is really difficult to accept as part of your marital history, I don't think I can ever reconcile WH had an A. He is a traitor to me and our family. A very, very hard pill to swallow.

My WH was also extremely remorseful, but the TT was deadly. When I think about the lies, I can easily slip into a PTSD mentality. It s*cks.

When I get stressed about anything, the damn PTSD rears its ugly head. Is there anything else going on in your life?

I'm not okay with that

^^I don't think anyone of here is ok with it, some are able to accept it more easily than others.

((((Mrs. D)))

cds22 posted 6/7/2013 14:22 PM

I am not clear on how to differentiate PTSD from just flat out not being OK with being in a marriage with someone with a past affair. Certainly, I would explore the PTSD angle and see if you can ameliorate things that way.

But *and I am new here so take this with a grain of salt* you are getting closer to the time where you need to forgive/rebuild or leave. I don't know where that precise point is and certainly it varies between couples and situations. But I think at years 4 or 5 if one if feeling ongoing (not just triggers or occasional flares) feelings that this is not right and they cannot accept it, it is time to leave.

I am a betrayed spouse and am on your side here! But at some point relatively soon I think you need to figure out whether this is something you just cannot accept, and in fairness to both of you, leave the marriage if that is the case.

sisoon posted 6/7/2013 14:22 PM

My experience is that A stuff keeps cycling around, even with my remorseful WS. That's the nature of trauma, after all.

I urge you to talk with MrD - give him a chance to help.


rachelc posted 6/7/2013 15:26 PM

slight t/j:

Eight years out, had a bad morning, sent WH a text that I "am divorcing his cheating ass." An A is really difficult to accept as part of your marital history, I don't think I can ever reconcile WH had an A. He is a traitor to me and our family.

are you really? so sorry to hear this.. but as with all of us, we can live with only so much...

speaking as a wayward, if my husband came to me tonight and told me he just couldnt do this i would understand. I really would.

Flatlined posted 6/7/2013 15:51 PM

Oh Mrs D., I sure do understand. I see you have just come thru another anti-versary. Idk, but there seems to be something about those yearly dates that triggers us on a primal level.

I am approaching year 4... My FWH had two A's, with women I knew well (I no longer call them friends), each A was a few months long. I had the further exasperation of 18 months of trickled truth after DDay. My FWH sounds like yours in that he really has made the 180.

ITA with the others who say you definitely have to talk it out with Mr. D. I used to tell my H that he is the one who made the unilateral decision to book us on this (hellish) cruise. When the water gets choppy he is not allowed to pull the covers over his head. I need him to do his best to hold on to me until the sea calms.

Our R has gone well. But lately I have just been feeling sad. I spent quite a bit of time cyber stalking O(utside)W#2 last year. I was finally able to forgive her earlier this year and that feels so good. (She was really stinking up my brain!!!) Four years ago this month, when FWH was just gettin hot-n-heavy with her and the 2 or 3 months that followed will probably forever be remembered as the worst time of my life. (And I have also lost a 14 yo child to suicide.) I totally understand when you say, it's not okay. As so_lost said, this is hard mental work... learning how to be ok inspite of what isn't (wasn't) ok. I also agree with sisson, trauma is quite cyclic.

I don't think this is an issue of do I want to be married to a cheater or not? I think we both already made that decision. I think it's just an issue of how to live with the recurring emotional pain. Our Hs did a terrible, stupid and horrific thing. It still seems unfathomable. Some of the best advice you've been given is to let him in so he can share the burden of your current struggle.

Best to you ((Mrs. D.))

MrsDoubtfire posted 6/8/2013 01:40 AM

Thank you so much for all your replies. Sometimes, to gain perspective you need to sound off people not so closely linked to your situation.

To answer some questions: I am in this M with both feet and with eyes wide open so don't worry that I might be wavering with wanting a D. It's just that reality seems to have smacked me hard upside the head..

I didn't actually equate these feelings with the realisation I've just been through another anti versary and that resonated so thank you. You've helped me put this into perspective a bit more. My thoughts and feelings have probably been influenced by that a lot. That I can deal with.

As for PTSD? I really thought that, once it had been dealt with, that it would be solved so I might just call my IC and ask her opinion as I am a great believer in "if there's something out there (that's legal and morally acceptable) that can sort your ailments out then for goodness sake take it!"

I just want my feelings to be gone or changed into something more healthy.

To answer the question about the fact I now have 100 questions I want to ask FWH: yes, we too use a book so I can keep all his answers. These questions are different ones.... Ones that just add bulk to the backbone of the ones already known to me I guess.

I looked at FWH earlier and thought to myself, what would it feel like to tell him that his A isn't acceptable in my life and that I want a D? My gut felt sick and I knew I still am in this M 100% and that I made my choice already.

Life without him would be happy as I don't look to him to make me happy- that's my job! But, he does add the sprinkles and cherry on top of my (already) lovely cup cake life

I'm hoping this current feeling will pass and I really hope it passes soon as I hate feeling 'indifferent' and detached.

Maybe, just maybe this is a step towards something better as I hate that he's become my number one trigger once more.

I wish I could get angry to the point I'm red in the face and drooling so I could let whatever poison this is out!! My lack of anger really surprises me still.

sudra posted 6/8/2013 05:49 AM

It's like that plain of lethal flatness is back. I don't want to S and I don't want to D but I cannot reconcile with the fact FWH had an A and I have finally come to a place of understanding where I realise that I don't want to be M to someone who fucked someone else day after day after day after day after fucking month for almost 3 years REGARDLESS of whether he treated her like dirt and didn't see her for weeks on end etc!!!!!

That's where I am, one month short of the three year anniversary of Dday. Sucks and I wonder if that will ever change.

catlover50 posted 6/8/2013 06:32 AM


I also wanted to add that you have helped me with my journey.

I have a narrative that I tell myself, and have written it down, that helps me. I understand the whys, etc. But sometimes, sitting at a traffic light, I am crushed by the realization that my H fucked another woman for almost 4 years!! Then I slowly have to rebuild my story, etc. Gahhh!

It helps me that I learned about my H's CSA. But really, every WS has some significant damage to be able to do what they did. Even the "selfish" excuse--how could they be so selfish? What about their makeup allows that? That is where compassion comes in. We are all flawed, but for some of us our flaws do not allow us to ever go there. We had intimacy modeled to us growing up, learned about being unselfish, etc. For some reason I always had a strong moral code and good will power. Am I a better person because of that? Well, in that way perhaps; in other ways no.

Assuming that the WS was broken, it wasn't our fault, then all they can do now is try to fix themselves and the marriage. If they have truly given their all, and are committed to work for ever, what more can we ask? They can't change the past or the fact that they were broken.

Of course sometimes we can't live with it regardless. But IMHO compassion for human failing can help---it does me most of the time.

Good luck.

[This message edited by catlover50 at 6:33 AM, June 8th (Saturday)]

MrsDoubtfire posted 6/8/2013 06:38 AM

Sudra. I hope it can change for both of us.

I don't know if there's anyone way out the other side who still posts here but, if there is, I hope they can offer some insight into this. Maybe it's all part of the process ?

I don't know. I had a talk with FWH earlier and admitted how I was feeling. He said he knew something was up and then told me " what hurts you now hurts me and vice versa. We need to work through it together and not with you pulling away!" Then he told me to keep on asking any questions and he would always answer them.

The old FWH wouldn't have bothered asking what my problem was let alone share the burden with me!!

MrsDoubtfire posted 6/8/2013 06:42 AM

Cat lover. We cross posted

When I'm alone the feelings become more intense ( especially at traffic lights and when I'm in my car). I try to do mindful thinking and stay focused on the present as it doesn't do good to dwell on the past. Generally I'm able to stay in the present but, lately, I find myself wallowing back there again. I know my thoughts direct my path and I need to look to the present and to look forwards to the future. But I feel a bit stuck. Like someone's taken my steering wheel and driven me back in time against my will!!!

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