I know there are a few BS on here in a similar situation. Sometimes I feel like my situation doesn't really fit with so many other stories. Having sex with escorts isn't really the same thing has having an affair, so sometimes the advice doesn't seem to fit. I just finished reading Surviving The Affair (read the whole thing today) and finished How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair last night (and left it for WH who did take it). I'm a little disappointed there isn't more that specifically addresses the prostitute/escort situation.
Anyway, upon discovery, WH was remorseful, started IC, but was TTing and when I discovered more I kicked him out. 10 days ago he was crying to come home. 3 days ago he was nothing but hateful, says his therapist said we had an "awful marriage", she's surprised it lasted this long. All she knows is what he tells her, and right now he's so broken he can't see anything positive. He's blame shifting in a huge way now, and is really upset with things I said to him when his cheating came to light. I'm not sure what he expected, like I was going to be all nice about it??? He is dredging up crap that happened 20 years ago of little relevance (imo), and giving me completely mixed messages. I did go to IC twice, and stopped. He's "blown away" that I'm not in therapy because he says I think I'm perfect and I need to work on my esteem issues. At this point, I was confused and said "too high?" or "too low?" You would think that if I think I'm perfect it would be too high, but he says too low. WTF? I have body issues, which I think are different from self esteem issues. I actually think my self esteem is fairly good. Nevertheless, I'm willing to consider that I need further therapy and will return.
It seems that MC would be pointless right now. I thought I was trying to decide whether to stay or go, but it seems like he's pretty non-committed to a future right now.
The WS's are usually broken on some deep level and feel they are getting "what they need" from their actions, be it attention, positive reinforcement, or getting off.
It sounds like your H is being allowed to rewrite your marital history with his counselor, and I would say to put a foot down with that and squash that nonsense ASAP. He needs to own his actions, and the effect they had on you, not come up with excuses that allows him to justify what he did in his own mind.
MC can be much better in this siutation than IC because there is a voice of reason, as you two hammer out what the real issues are, instead of him continuing to lie, to someone new, and a get validated by them because he manipulating them, and not being truthful.
He sounds more sorry that he was caught than sorry for hurting you. There is a difference.
Have you considered what you need to work toward R if you are heading that way? If not it is time to do that. You need to be very clear as to what your expectations are, and the consequences of not following through on them.
Welcome, and wishing many hugs and strength.
They are broken, not us. None of us are perfect and no one has a perfect marriage no what we think, but it is never the BS fault that the WS chose to deal with their own issues of self worth and selfishness by going outside of the marriage to feel better.
I am 6 months out from my original D-day, and have been lied to so much since then about the details of his cheating that its sheer madness, he has finally gotten to where he can come to me on his own and admit some of the more painful truths of his activity with the whores. Even though it was 2 years ago it happened makes the pain no less, actually makes it worse that he has known the whole time he did such disgusting things with them and what he could have given me and let me go until last Dec. when I found out before being tested for STDS.
No matter how they cheat, they are the same, lying, betraying,selfish twits.
The "fog", TT, 180 etc. you read on here does apply, but in a slightly different way. It is very very hard to see the difference when you JFO. I know that it seems totally different right now, but after you have had some proper healing under your belt, it will make more sense later.
IME and from what I have heard from others with similar experience, almost NEVER does the WS fess up to the real body count upfront. It is always at least double. Mine was more than 10x the amount. Given your WS's actions, I think it is safe to assume at least double. Yes, you could say gaslighting is the same for all WS, but the consequences and aftermath of many escorts is different than finding out the EA was a PA, the PA was a LTA, there were 10 ONS instead of 2. It is not necessarily worse, just different.
IME and from what I have heard from others with similar experience, the WS always blames the BS. Goes to great lengths to do so, even if they don't appear to blame the BS at all. It is all part of the gaslighting, which while common with most WS, seems to be more advanced when hookers or anonymous partners are involved. This crazy acting, blaming the BS is to take the focus off on you finding out the body count (and other actions) is way worse than you know. And to hope you will be so busy doubting yourself or needing to know the "full" story that you won't actually take action against him. Again, same stuff all WS do, but in this case they are trying to keep you from knowing about the much greater increased chance of STDs, hiding the missing money that was spent on illegal activities, arrest reports, etc. The shame and consequences from the truth getting out is different, and may have further reaching effects, KWIM?
IME and from what I have heard from others with similar experience, garden variety IC (for either of you) and MC is usually not helpful in this case, and in fact it can make it infinitely worse for the BS. You need at the very least a trauma specialist and/or an infidelity specialist for IC, and honestly at least an evaluation by someone certified or at least educated in sex addiction would be best. MC is not really advisable at this point. the WS has to be *extremely* broken to consider going to prostitutes repeatedly, the risk for disease, personal safety, and trouble with the law is much higher than someone that has an affair or affairs/multiple ONS. That brokeness has to be addressed before any real MC can begin.
I highly recommend reading all the books in the first post of the Spouses of of Sex Addicts thread in I Can Relate forum. Even if he is not a sex addict, the consequences and effects on you are the same and these resources will provide the insight you are not getting in the books you have read so far.
Whatever you do, don't think any of it is your fault. This I can promise you is not true.
I do agree that they always lie about the amount of women or times and details as well.
Anyway, upon discovery, WH was remorseful, started IC, but was TTing and when I discovered more I kicked him out. 10 days ago he was crying to come home. 3 days ago he was nothing but hateful, says his therapist said we had an "awful marriage", she's surprised it lasted this long. All she knows is what he tells her, and right now he's so broken he can't see anything positive. He's blame shifting in a huge way now, and is really upset with things I said to him when his cheating came to light. I'm not sure what he expected, like I was going to be all nice about it??? He is dredging up crap that happened 20 years ago of little relevance (imo), and giving me completely mixed messages. I did go to IC twice, and stopped. He's "blown away" that I'm not in therapy because he says I think I'm perfect and I need to work on my esteem issues. At this point, I was confused and said "too high?" or "too low?" You would think that if I think I'm perfect it would be too high, but he says too low. WTF?
I know right now you are in so much pain it is too hard to see it, but this is gaslighting and blaming you (even if indirectly) to avoid you finding out the truth.
FWIW, IME and others who have been in my shoes have told me that often the WS who has been with many prostitutes will often distort and/or outright lie about what their IC said. All part of the blame-shifting and gaslighting. So keep that in mind too.
I am so sorry you are hurting. You don't deserve this. You will get a lot of support here.
When I found out about my SAWH's activities, the only thing he admitted to directly proportionate to the evidence I had. He said he had indeed been with one hooker, twice. Fast forward 10 agonizing weeks and last count was 6 women for sex, 3 for bjs & 5-6 lingerie models who undressed & posed naked so he could masturbate.
Two days after d-day I insisted that we go to a counselor ASAP. H picked one out of the phone book & we were at her office the next afternoon. I think it was pure providence that she was CSAT & pegged him on the second visit. She gave him the SA test and he passed with such a high score he couldn't even deny it to himself. He is in IC and attends weekly SA & in all honesty, it doesn't feel like enough. I'm not sure if I think there is more he should be doing or if I'm just coming to terms with the body count & whether I can continue in this relationship. I still have an almost constant fear that in all probability there is more & I don't think I could deal with it.
Lonely, please hold on! It's an awful ride & it's only the beginning. Please post often as there are women on here that are my personal heros and can give you the information you need today so that you can make it until tomorrow.
Sending you many hugs & prayers for your strength.
It's an awful ride & it's only the beginning.
So, so true. I have been living with an SA for 20 years, just didn't realize it until finding out about hookers last Dec.
Early in our relationship it wasn't real women, it was phone sex and cyber sex, he did seem to get over all of that and for years everything was good. Then he got into porn more heavily than ever and now since he has been feeding me little bits of truth along the way , the 900 calls and porn addiction was there before he even knew me.
When he was acting out with the cyber sex there was no remorse at all, no amount of truth and he didn't give two shits about my feelings about it. Since finding out he physically cheated on me with the whores he may have TT me to death, but there has been no mistake this time that he knows he is a SA and how broken he is by what he has done to me and this marriage.
They say living with a SA isn't for the faint of heart and that is so true, been doing it for 20 years but never knew pain like I feel now even existed..hang in there.
I do think there is. A different type of fog for this type of adulterer - they may not be in luuuurve with the AP(s) but they live in lala land where nothing is their fault, it's all your fault, ans their ego kibbles take precedence over the M.
IMO your H needs a swift kick in the buttocks. He needs to grow up and own his shit. Sounds like he thinks he is blameless in all this which is frankly laughable....if it weren't also heartbreaking and gut-wrenching.
And to hide the body count and number of times.
"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."
Usually it appears the vast majority of posts at any given time are about APs and the advice is geared toward that. How the "fog" is about the WS being in "lurve" with the AP, how NC is so important, how exposing the affair is important if they refuse NC for example. To someone who just found out their spouse was into hookers, it would appear none of this applies. Their WS is not in "lurve" with any of their hookers. The idea that they would write a NC letter to them is laughable. Often exposure of the activities is not possible because it could get them fired, or in some cases (law enforcement, lawyer, etc.) could have them lose their license. So the critically wounded BS with this history that comes here wonders how they fit in at SI and how it can help.
The truth is almost all WS follow the same handbook and walk the same path in becoming broken, going astray, and dealing with being found out. The effects on the BS are all devastating, regardless of the situation. The only difference is certain situations require a slightly different application of the advice here, and a WS who uses hookers is only one of them. For example, NC. No, they don't write a NC letter to their hookers. But they agree to never call them, email them, visit websites that solicit them, go to places where they will be present (bachelor parties, vegas trips, etc). They may be cut off from the cash so they can't make expenditures that can't be tracked. Etc. In addition to the usual advice, like they give up their secret phones, secret email accounts, and volunteer full transparency on phone records, online usage, and maybe even allow themselves to be GPS tracked to prove they are where they say they are.
So just because initially it appears you have no place here, and the advice doesn't really apply to you doesn't mean that it is so. The principles are the same, the applications are just different. Post your specific questions, and the many of us with the same issues that have BTDT can help you. And just because someone else's WS had a different kind of infidelity does not mean they can't help you. Some of the best advice I have gotten here for my particular situation were from people whose WS couldn't even bear to look at a hooker. You belong here, and you can get the support you need here.
I have found (not here) some women who say hey, they're just hookers, it's just sex, who cares? And a part of me can subscribe to that a wee bit, but in the end I do care and it's still painful and I expect that women who say that are generally women who didn't experience it. So there!
The body count... I think I might be getting the truth there now. I didn't at first, of course. At first, it was "just one" and it was "only about 7 times." After my own digging revealed that likely wasn't true, he admitted to seeing one other but just once. That's when I kicked him out. It was a few days after that bit of reality that he admitted it was "8 or 9", a few he saw only once (not 100% satisfied) and some he saw a few times and this was apparently over the course of 18 months. I'm in charge of the money. His pay goes directly into our account, I pay the bills, etc and I really didn't notice it going. I think he must have gone about once a month.
BTW, where we live an escort operating out of her own home is legal. Sucks big time. I did contact the police about the one (when that was all I knew), and that's what I was told. The dick found the loophole.
I'm just not sure about SA. I looked up some info. Just don't know.
As for putting my foot down regarding his therapist, I don't see how I can do that. It's IC. I'm not involved. I'm not saying he's lying to her. He's just in a very negative, broken place right now so everything that comes out of his mouth is probably negative.
I think the hard spot for me right now is the separation of blame for the infidelity from blame in the marriage for marital problems. As much as we can say the BS is not responsible for the cheating, the BS is responsible for some problems in the marriage. It all gets tied up together despite them being separate entities. It's definitely getting tied up and lumped together for him, and right now he's choosing to attack marital problems rather than the cheating issue. He's missing a step.
IMO, he's also focusing on shit that doesn't matter. He had a conversation with my mom on the weekend where he brought up something she said more than 30 years ago when she barely knew him. Let it go, man! He brought up an issue we had in our marriage some 20 years ago, an issue where I agree he was right and I was wrong, and he's still harping about it. But he tells me that I hold a grudge too long. I really don't think that an argument from 20 years ago that should be resolved by now (I agree he was right) made him go to hookers. I guess that's the fog?
Does anyone have any feelings about the age of therapists? The one I called appeared pretty young on the website, and has only been in practice a few years. I got to thinking that maybe I want someone more mature that might actually understand marriages better, someone who actually is married - is that something you should ask a potential therapist? Has anyone found validity in that thought? Does it matter?
It all boils down to them owning their shit and being honest/transparent. If they aren't willing to do that - there can't be any real reconciliation.
So sorry you find yourself here. Don't let him blame you for any of his shitty behavior. Those were his choices and had nothing to do with you. ((HUGS))
[This message edited by JanaGreen at 11:53 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)]