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Mrs Panda posted 6/12/2013 21:06 PM

I will never do that to us again. I do not use cheating as a "coping mechanism" anymore. No matter what happens.

My BH is worried. I am under a tremendous amount of stress at work. My work partner is injured, so it's all on me. Plus, I have to deal with these assholes who want to try to absorb me into their crappy practice. I'd cut off my right arm before I'd work with these assholes.

He's worried. He associates me working a lot and/or getting depressed with me cheating. An outlet, if you will, from the job.

He can't understand the internal and mental changes that have gone on in my head. He doesn't know how I think about this all the time (and he doesn't want to know). He can't see much different on the outside...I am not sure I seem different at all. I reassure, I keep him up on what's going on, I don't shut down. But I doubt I seem different to him.

We don't talk about IT enough. His choice. I wish he was on here.

authenticnow posted 6/13/2013 05:10 AM

I get it.

If my BH is having a triggery day (which happened just this past Monday) I tell him things like, "I'm here, completely and truly. It's all you all the time, sweetie. My head is here, my heart is here. I love you."

I also told him, "There are no lies, there is nothing else, no secrets, I promise."

He does know it (from my actions every day), but I tell him because there are times when he needs to hear it. And even if it's only words in that moment, they come from my heart and it's all I can do.

I totally get the mindset you are talking about. And I wish LD could see it so he could be comforted in knowing it and trusting in it completely.

KBeguile posted 6/13/2013 07:33 AM

Agreed. So many times I have wanted to pry open my own head in the hopes that someone - anyone - could investigate the changes inside and validate to Heart that I am thinking differently.

But, just like a crystal ball, we don't have ways of 100% guaranteeing that these changes amount to anything and that we really will follow through with our promises. We haven't in the past, so why should we start now?

No, AN is right. You need to focus on being here for your spouse in the moment.

Darkness Falls posted 6/13/2013 09:11 AM

I hear you. I'm in the same boat. My XH also associates work stress (which I have a lot of) with cheating. Like your H, he doesn't talk about it. I'm trying not to project and assume that he's triggering...but I can't help but wonder. I know him, and I believe that he wouldn't bring it up; he'd just leave it in his mind.

He and I are so very opposite in that way. If I'm worried about something, I like to talk it out. He internalizes.

floridaredman posted 6/13/2013 12:06 PM

Hi Mrs. P,
Question...

How does your BH see you?
If he was describing your character to a friend of his..how do you think he would do it?

Mrs Panda posted 6/13/2013 18:22 PM

Thanks all.

@FRM (hi!)
My BH would describe me as the most dedicated person to her job he has ever met. He would say I sacrifice me for the job. He would say he admires me tremendously for how much I care.

He would say I am a good person.

He would say I am very smart book-wise, with less "common sense." He would say I am a bit socially awkward.

Why do you ask?

ETA: he wouldn't say anything negative to a friend. He would probably just say I am really smart and sometimes shy, sometimes talk too much.

[This message edited by Mrs Panda at 6:24 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]

Neithan posted 6/13/2013 20:16 PM

You may think that you know yourself.

But understand that everyone's personality has 4 "panes" to its window into the " soul".

The first pane, both you and others can see thru. The second one, only you can see thru, not others. The third pane, others can see thru, but not you. The fourth pane, no one sees thru.

So I take it with a grain of salt when someone assures me that they "know themselves" and know just what they will and won't do. Others may see things in them that they are blind to, despite their best honest efforts.

KBeguile posted 6/13/2013 20:39 PM

Neithan said:

Others may see things in them that they are blind to, despite their best honest efforts.

I know people have seen a LOT in me that I've been blind to. Just opening my eyes to these things has helped me identify them and sort through them better.

EmotionalFool posted 6/14/2013 03:12 AM

@Neithan:

Isnt that applicable to every human being? So what r u trying to point out here??

Flatlined123 posted 6/14/2013 05:12 AM

So I take it with a grain of salt when someone assures me that they "know themselves" and know just what they will and won't do. Others may see things in them that they are blind to, despite their best honest efforts.

I agree this is true about everyone.

What I get out of this is you can never be 100% sure of yourself and can never trust yourself.

I disagree, I KNOW after seeing what an affair did to us, our family, that I would never do that.

I also like to think that the WS on here who truly see the destruction their actions caused, can say the same thing.

[This message edited by Flatlined123 at 5:14 AM, June 14th (Friday)]

authenticnow posted 6/14/2013 05:49 AM

I agree with Flatlined. I may not know myself completely, I am still learning, but with all the self work I have done, I know with 100% certainty that I won't cheat again.

LA44 posted 6/14/2013 05:58 AM

Soo...I don't want to t/J but...Mrs. Panda, et all...At what point did you know this? That you would never cheat again?

Did you feel it following D-Day? Or if you ended it before A was discovered did you know it? Altho, I am not sure how that would be possible.

Curious...
LA

AFrayedKnot posted 6/14/2013 06:28 AM

Just playing devils advocate here. Wasn't there a thread a week or two ago about WS who thought they would never cheat?

Didn't that show that under the right set if circumstances anything can happen.

I know its different now. There is a different mindset. There is a different knowledge base. There are different tools.

It just seems like a cocky "I've got this" attitude is the perfect place for cracks to form unnoticed.

Without concern there is no vigilance. Without vigilance there is no permanence.

floridaredman posted 6/14/2013 07:13 AM

I asked because you say he associates you working a lot with the cheating that happened.
It's like a two-edged sword. He likes that you are dedicated to your work. And that you care a lot about it.
I was just thinking he may think you get so absorbed that you forget about him or he may be thinking he's not a priority.
Even though you two have been working on that..it probably is a classic trigger for him.
I know you know how to handle that..it's just he has to begin to trust you in that and that probably will take a while.

authenticnow posted 6/14/2013 12:00 PM

Not sure if this is a t/j but I wanted to answer Chicho's question.

The thing is, for me knowing doesn't feel like cockiness, the knowing IS the vigilance. The mindset that is now in place is awareness of boundaries, of the lessons from the process, etc.

Now if a pre-A attitude starts to surface, all that sets into motion. It's the awareness of all that and the desire to maintain my healthy, honest and decent lifestyle (in addition to never wanting to hurt myself or my BH the way I did during my As), that makes me know I won't go there again.

I am one of the WSs who said I used to say I would never cheat. I didn't know shit about myself then! The process in me that my cheating caused opened my eyes up to so much dysfunction. An awareness that wasn't there before.

I will always remain vigilant, and I can see why that may come across as cocky, but I guess it's more like confidence. Confidence in myself and the person I've become.

Mrs Panda posted 6/14/2013 19:35 PM

@Chico , I am not quite sure if you were addressing my original comments or on a t/j. But my point was that I would bet that from my BH's persepctive, such a statement would sound stupid. Because I know and accept that as good as I am, he will never trust 100% again. 99% maybe. Not completely.

@LA44, From My perspective, it is real to me. There is a quiet confidence.

Look, I was a repeat offender. I cheated 12 years ago and swore to myself and all that is holy never again.

I white knuckled it. You know, "dry adultery." I changed no boundaries, I changes no thought processes, I did no work or introspection. I buried it and the shame as deep as I could. Until it (I) erupted 7 years later with another AP.

So it's conscious now. It physically hurt to face my demons and see what a fucking bitch I had been.

And there were consequences. Like having to live with the memory of what I did to us. And betraying the man who loved me unwittingly.

So, I believe I know. Doesn't matter how bad shit gets or if Brad Pitt begs me to sleep with him. I can't survive that again. It's almost five years and it's always there. So vigilance, yeah, that's not a concern.

Fallen posted 6/14/2013 20:48 PM

MrsP... you've got this because you get it.

How do I know I wouldn't cheat again? For the same reasons you know.. because there is nothing worth going through that again. I find it interesting that people take it at face value when BSes say "I'd never cheat" but when a WS who has walked through that hell and changed says they wouldn't cheat again, that same statement is invalidated.

mainlyinpain posted 6/14/2013 21:04 PM

You say you do not use cheating as a coping mechanism anymore. That before your stress led you to cheating. You may know that in your head and heart but your BS does not. Ok. What is your coping mechanism now? Have you shared that with your betrayed spouse? You can see that he is worried because of the stress you are under. Tell him how you are relieving that stress so that he knows it will not be infidelity.

AFrayedKnot posted 6/14/2013 21:22 PM

Sorry it was more of a t/j pointing out the irony of the two post.

But it was also somewhat of a warning of the use of absolutes in regards to over confidence.

So to address your original comments, Maybe:

"I will remain vigilant and self-aware"
might be a stronger mantra for you and your BH

Neithan posted 6/14/2013 22:02 PM

What Chico said. I can get behind his mantra.

I have been around the block often enough that when someone swears to me that they learned their lesson and that they will NEVER do such and such again, I would not bet much money on them.

[This message edited by Neithan at 10:06 PM, June 14th (Friday)]