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So, what is wrong with people?

As I read here about all the fallout, particularly with children, I just get enraged at the basic selfishness of people. The new member whose WW's AP, whom he had given a job, and said to the WW, he's a great guy but I want what I want. WTF!!! The children who can't stand to have their parent's fight, who develop eating disorders, fail in school, etc. How can so many people put their needs ahead of innocent people? So, if you wanted someone's car would you just take it? If you wanted an I-pad would you steal it? Why is okay to justify wanting someone who is off limits? Or, even worse, how can you as a parent rationalize the harm you are doing to your own children, not to mention the one person you pledged your life to?

When we have children, IMO, we basically give up being selfish. They didn't choose to be born and they are our total responsiblity for a long period of time. What is more basic then trying to give them a stable home? I'm not advocating being miserable in a M for the sake of the children, but certainly not making a choice to deliberately harm the family should be a frigging no brainer!!

This has gotten me a bit fired up.

In my M, I don't believe that our children noticed the LTA while it was ongoing; my H did not change his behavior. But his other behaviors were noticable and I am noticing the effects on our children. Our beautiful, talented almost 19 year old daughter has a hard time trusting men and although she has had many offers has never had a long term boyfriend. She said to me a year ago that she would not be married to my H if she were me because "he lies to himself". She had noticed over the years how selfish he was. How can you trust a man when the one man you know best doesn't know himself? She is aware of his current struggles with CSA (found out accidentally) and I think it helps her understand, but this may affect her her whole life. Our son grew up thinking that it was not okay for me to make requests of my H; he would literally yell at me if I did (you can't tell a man what to do!). Fortunately he is in a long term relationship and tries very hard to be giving, but his girlfriend accuses him of acting entitled.

My point is that there are so many unintended consequences on our children for things that are hard to control, why in the world would we intentionally do something just about guaranteed to harm them. Or the innocent spouses. Why can't we just be decent people?

End rant.

[This message edited by catlover50 at 7:51 AM, June 13th (Thursday)]

The problem is entitlement and selfishness. Some people feel they have the Right to be selfish. Selfishness breeds selfishness.

My H parents are completely selfish people..its all me me me. They are their own #1. Not each other or their children or grandchilren.
Guess what? My H and his brother are the same way.

My WH always did what he wanted no matter what and the A was no different.
The consequences for me or his children didnt even come into play because his main focus was himself first.
I would tell him that it felt like we (the kids and I) were just living in his world like things he owned, decorations.

People like us that are givers and have our head on straight and think rational can never understand that way of thinking.
I learned my being too much of a giver from my mother.
My only hope is that we(my H and I) can now help teach our children to find a healthy balance of taking when you need it and giving just as much.

That was a good rant and very true cat, it's a catch 22, these people have to be selfish to do what they do in the first place, I'm afraid children don't come into it for a lot of them or they wouldn't do what they do. It's so sad

It is so sad for the kids. My
wh acted differently during his infidelity and my 16 yo kids found out before me and I ingnored the facts.

My DD found out when my WH got STD testing during the bouts with the prostitutes and when I asked him he said oh the doctor thought it was a good idea. I believed him. Looking back that was definitely a sign, and my son heard him talking to a women in the car and he called her "hon" (yes, he called a prostitute "hon", our pet name), my son asked him if he was having an affair and he said no, and I believed him. Why should Ii doubt him?

Fast forward to the children. My DD did developed an eating disorder during his 2 year bought with them. and she just got out of an inpatient eating disorder clinic Friday. My son says he will never trust his dad again because he lied. It's all so sad. I feel your rant.
w

You asked:

"why in the world would we intentionally do something just about guaranteed to harm them?"

I don't think we 'intentinally' do it. It is all a part of our world falling down around us and our coping skills aren't what they should be.

I never intentionally act different around my WH. But my kids notice my being withdrawn. I try to 'fix' whatever I notice, but it isn't always possible to do it before others' lives have been affected, even if only in a small way.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 9:01 AM, June 13th (Thursday)]

I don't mean the BS's are intentionally hurting their children; of course not. It's amazing many of us can function at all. I was fortunate that my children were in college when it all came down.

I mean starting an affair in the first place without considering the consequences on the innocent.

catlover, I know this wasn't the point of your post, but about your daughter:

How can you trust a man when the one man you know best doesn't know himself? She is aware of his current struggles with CSA (found out accidentally) and I think it helps her understand, but this may affect her her whole life.

I'm sure it has affected her. If it gave her very high standards when it comes to men, that's a good thing . Having the world's most honest, decent, faithful father, taught me to believe the best of everyone. I'm sure you can imagine the pitfalls of that approach!

Your daughter has a role model for emotional well-being in you. She also knows that her dad is working hard to be whole and healthy. Maybe counseling would be good for her so she could verbalize the qualities she wants in a man and how those look in action.

As for your son, does your H talk to him about his own journey to heal from childhood and become more open and giving? Messages from his father's own life would be powerful.

To get back to your rant, of course I totally agree! Maybe part of the problem is that, at least for Americans, we have this proud individualism. If I asked OW whether she would have stolen my iPad, she would say, "No, but you don't own WH." You can't own a person, so it's not stealing. As if WH is a lone individual, not a crucial member of an interdependent web of family relationships.

I'm sure she also sees herself as primarily a separate individual with a right to pursue her happiness any way she sees fit. She doesn't feel a responsibility to society as a whole, or any connection to our children. OW is not married, but if she were, I doubt she would consider her marriage to be one of the building blocks of society, or her home to be a haven for friends, family and children.

So, she doesn't see the disrespect she showed when she wheedled her way into our family. She doesn't know how it feels to be intimately interconnected with a community of people. For that, I pity her.

WH realizes more every day the effects his affair, and his childhood damage had on us. But, we a so much wiser and we are healing.

When we have children, IMO, we basically give up being selfish

I agree with this 100%.

I also think there are those who have children for purely selfish reasons. Having the mommy/daddy title and "look what I do for my kids" attitude is more important for those types of people than mothering/fathering for the sake of the child.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 9:47 AM, June 13th (Thursday)]

Thanks sailorgirl. I have asked my daughter about counseling and right now she has declined. Right now she is actually in southeast asia learning about social entrepeneurship! Our son has not come home since we learned he knows. I would really like him to sit down with my H. When our daughter told him what she had learned about their father his response was "that explains a lot". I would love to learn what he meant by that.

I'm glad things are improving for you and your family. It is a journey.