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I have asked WH for a few things to even consider R with him, one of which is to tell his parents what he did, why we are so on edge.

I asked him this a couple months ago, and he flat out refused, he'd rather not R. He doesn't see the point if we're not going to D to tell them, but if we do D he'll tell them why (which I know he won't because he doesn't tell them shit). The thing is the reason I want then to know, first off is because I want him to admit to someone what he did, even right after final dday when we did a short term of MC I was the one that explained why we were there. But mostly I want them to know I'm a bitch to their son for a reason, his mom hates me always has. Things got some what better between us after our ds was born, but then his A happened, I lost respect for him, and I'm not good at hiding it especially when we try to fake a happy M every time they visit, and the fact that his mom hates me just adds to the stress and I break. I can never pretend for the whole weekend, it always blows up by Saturday evening or Sunday morning, making me look like an even bigger bitch then she already thinks.

I want them to know so they understand that's it's not just me being a bitch, that there really is a huge problem between their son and I, and to also possibly help us out financially to get quality MC.

Does this sound unreasonable? Should I keep making this a part of even considering R (which is very very far from what I actually think is going to happen any time soon). Or should I back off and drop it?

[This message edited by scangel3 at 2:01 AM, June 14th (Friday)]

I don't necessarily think it is unreasonable, but he told you he is not going to do it and he'd rather not R if that is the condition. So, is this a deal breaker or not? If it isn't, I think it would be best to stop saying it is a requirement for R.

The way you explained this, he sounds unremorseful and unwilling to do much at all to fix things, and that is a huge problem, but in general, I would agree with him, that if you are considering staying together, telling family members often does more harm than good. Just my opinion.

Every case is different though, and you have valid reasons to want your MIL to know why you are not such a lovey-dovey wife these days. So you could tell her yourself! Your WH might be mad, and it might be a dealbreaker for HIM if you do so, but that would really let you know just how committed he is, and in that case, you could stop wasting time trying to R with him.

As far as hoping a woman that you say hates you will help financially so you can get quality MC, I must be honest, I don't get that one. I don't think that will happen. Often, the parents of the WS will take their child's side even when their child is clearly in the wrong and cheated! Why would she invest in helping him save a marriage to someone that she doesn't like in the first place? You know her better than I do, though, and maybe you have a good reason to think she would help.

oh yeah, total asshole behavior. still trying to save his own ass. he doesn't want to tell his parents because he doesn't want any punishment for what he did. he wants to have as little discomfort from it as possible. to me, this is very ominous that he is still the same selfish person who made the choice to willfully betray the one he promised to love. he should be doing whatever you ask...he doesn't get to call the shots and manipulate you by saying he'd rather divorce....what an ass-hat. sorry, I , know he's your husband, but this stuff really fires me up.

I see this as separate issues:

~He won't actually say the words "I have been a lying cheat and betrayed my W and family" to anyone, even a MC.

~His parents, especially his mom, treats you with...contempt?

~You need financial help for a good MC.

The first issue you can have him address by being the one to speak the words to the MC you currently have (or another if you switch). It doesn't matter if the MC has already heard it. It's the whole AA thing...owning what you did out loud, "Hello, my name is WH and I'm a wayward."

The second and third issue can be addressed by him telling his parents that you are the family he chose and he expects them to respect that. He hasn't always, but he would like to change that by going to someone for help repairing damage he caused. Would they be willing to help their grandson have a more stable family by helping financially? Even if they decide not to, he expects them to treat you with kindness as his chosen life partner.

Additionally, you two obviously need to spend less weekends with the ILs until your R is better established and he is able to look at his parents- especially his mom- and tell them, "You are not treating my wife with kindness and respect. We will be leaving now."

Basically he needs to be an advocate for the family he chose to create rather than the one he was born into.

Finally- I would look into mother/son issues. Something I've learned about in recent years is "emotional incest". It usually happens when there's a single mom (or parent I suppose) relying on their child like a partner. It creates a dynamic of competition when the child gets M. If your FIL was emotionally distant, your MIL might have relied on your WH emotionally and created a dynamic that he strains away from but doesn't know how to break. It would also create issues with him knowing how to truly be emotionally intimate with you, because somewhere deep inside what he had with his mother felt wrong so emotional intimacy feels wrong.

In which case, him advocating and speaking clearly that you, as his W, are his priority is even more important because it helps break that dynamic and strengthens your bond.

Keep in mind I could be reading into this entirely based on you mentioning more than once that it is your MIL that has issues with you.

Scange13. The angle i have on this is you want him to do something in part because you want the in laws to appreciate you more. It could backfire as often this revelation causes in laws to feel that they must firmly place loyalties with the side of their child even if they know they have done wrong. I'd think harder about the root reasons you are asking for this condition and determine if it is really something you need regardless of the outcome.

I agree with the backfiring risk. Many people will say the BS did something to cause the cheating. Especially ILs who don't want to face that they raised a cheater.

My MIL told me MrH could wander as long as he always came back to me and didn't leave me to be a single mother. Yeah, I feel all that when I think of her response.

Thank you for your replies. I was just going over something I had written WH a couple of months ago, as a last ditch effort of clueing him in about what I needed from him to consider R, but since he is a unremorseful ass, we are no where near R right now, and we are not currently in MC. We don't have the financial means to be in MC right now when there may be no reason to go. I was just reading this letter/list and remembered how he was so against this one thing. Is this a deal breaker for me if he won't tell his parents? I don't know honestly, there's more to it then just telling his parents he screwed his family up big time. And I know it will probably back fire on me and she will hate me even more, blame me, especially since when our son was born he was very small for gestational age, and her first comment was (to my WH not me) "Well maybe she should have done xyz or abc so he wouldn't be so little", something I had no control over and she blamed me. So I don't expect her to even consider taking my side, I know that, and I would be completely shocked if she responded any differently. Now my fil I don't know, we have no problems for the most part, and my sil, well she was for a long time one of the only two people outside of WH and I (and OW and her BS) that knew about the A, and she hated him for it. She totally took my side, and was ready to throw her brother under the bus, and tell her parents, but I told her not to at the time, because I didn't want to embarress WH and make him mad

Additionally, you two obviously need to spend less weekends with the ILs until your R is better established and he is able to look at his parents- especially his mom- and tell them, "You are not treating my wife with kindness and respect. We will be leaving now."

I wish this would happen, but never in a million years. First off we only see WH's family once every month or two, they live three hours away. I rarely go up to their house anymore, just send WH and the kids, but they come down here. And for my WH to stand up for me, or even mention that she needs to act differently would be a miracle to say the least. He has NEVER had my back when it comes to his parents!!! And I don't ever see that changing. Which may be another reason I want him to spill the beans with his family.

I know his mom thinks I ruined his life, made him move three hours away, and being that we are from different religious back grounds, was a big concern about hers when we announced our engagement. I don't ever expect her to change, and like me, but maybe if she knew, she could at least understand. When I am just done with WH (as I always am when we spend even just one full day together, let alone two) she'll maybe get it. I am not just some bitch that is being unfair to her precious son, but I have valid reasons. And I know for a fact that if she knew about the PPD that I suffered after YDS was born, and the fact that is what led to his A, she would totally pin the whole thing on me, but I really don't care, she can't dislike me anymore then she already does.

Again thank you for your replies, support, and encouragement, I will be thinking more about this, and if we ever do decide to fully R and not just live in limbo forever, this will be something that is brought up in MC, and worked out with them. I just want to know that I am not being unreasonable for asking him this, from other BS's point of view.

ETA: Holly-isis, I am sorry your MIL said this:

My MIL told me MrH could wander as long as he always came back to me and didn't leave me to be a single mother

I am sure my MIL would think (not sure that she would say it out loud) WH would be better off with OW.

[This message edited by scangel3 at 11:33 AM, June 14th (Friday)]

Telling his parents will most likely not result in anything that you hope it will. Case in point, my in-laws and I had an amazing relationship. My MIL was my best friend for a decade when DDay hit. My H told his parents on his own, I didn't ask him to or tell him to, but he did because he needed to stay with them since I kicked him out on DDay.

His parents were very set on pushing for R, and we decided to work on R anyway on our own. So while we were busy working on R, his parents started distancing themselves from all of us, including our kids. They stopped inviting us to dinner all the time, they stopped calling very often and eventually stopped calling at all, they stopped accepting our invitations to things, and they stopped allowing our kids to come visit them even. They actually ended up telling us to not contact them for a year.

It was so heartbreaking. I loved these people more than my own parents, and they just threw me away. They knew I did nothing wrong, my H told them it was all his fault, and the in-laws were both BS's from prior relationships too so they know it's the truth. They wanted us to R, and then they didn't want to have anything to do with us after that.

Be careful what you ask for. WH telling his parents that you're a BS now won't automatically mean they care about you at all. Worse yet, what if they end up then harping on you more and throwing that in your face "well, if you weren't such a B, then he wouldn't have cheated on you now would he?" That would cut to the bone to hear from someone who's close to the family. Another thing to watch out for is for them to then be on his "side" and trying to get him to understand how it was all your fault that he cheated, and eventually try to get him to leave you. If they already don't like you much, it wouldn't be a far stretch for them to take this road as well.

"well, if you weren't such a B, then he wouldn't have cheated on you now would he?"

This is exactly the response I expect you'll get if the in-laws learn of the A. If they're already obvious in their dislike of you, why would you expect any other reaction? I would suggest you focus on your H's behavior and the decide whether or not he is capable of being the husband you deserve. And try to be nice to him. I know you're angry (Good Lord, do I know!) but being a respectful person is healthier for you. Stick to your boundaries, require him to own his behavior, and accept nothing but respect from him, but try to treat him with decency. Unless you're in NC with him, in which case there should be nothing for the in-laws to criticize.

something I had written WH a couple of months ago, as a last ditch effort of clueing him in about what I needed from him to consider R,

Scangel3, read that again. Several months ago you wrote a last ditch effort for R. So, what are you doing now?

When I am just done with WH (as I always am when we spend even just one full day together, let alone two)

Why are you wanting to reconcile with someone you cannot spend a day with.

I'm not trying to swing a 2x4 here. I just am asking you to reconsider some of the things you are saying here. I think you are so focused on your horrible inlaws, you are missing some of the larger issues here.

You aren't in R. So asking him to do this is moot. You want him to stand up for you, but he never will. He has never had your back.

Even if all of the above was not true, his mother does not like you. She will never side with you. She will never help you. She will blame you for his affair, that you made him unhappy, that you should have known this would happy when you married him, etc etc etc. You are setting yourself up for a world of hurt here. It will never provide you what you need. I suggest you stop looking outward for things that you think will help you, and look inside yourself for the strength you need to move on. ((hugs))

rebreather: I know the point is moot right now, I haven't asked him any of these things. Unfortunately I can't do anything about our living situation until september/october. And since I can't do anything about it, he knows he has until then to show me he wants to change, and wants to fight for this M. That does not mean I will change my mind about leaving just because he throws a hail marry at the last second. But the chance is still there for now.

I know my in-laws, especially mil, will not take my side on this. I am not looking for that. When I wrote that letter/list it was in there for the reason, I feel his parents should know what is going on, and he should own up to his shit and tell them.

I am not expecting him to do this right now, I don't even know if we ever do R that I will push it, I was just wondering if this is even something I should be looking at in a R starting point, regardless of his parents reactions. I just wanted to know if I was unreasonable for asking this of him.

I don't expect anything to change if he tells them, except like so many have said that they take his side and blame me. I really honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did, I would expect nothing less of that. I know they (especially mil) would blame me for the whole thing.

I know I need to focus on other things right now, like getting my butt off the fence and facing a new life without him, but I can't do that right now. And yes I know I shouldn't want to spend my life with someone I can't even stand to be with for one whole day, it's sad actually. I know, but like I already said, there is nothing I can do about it right now. I hate that his days off leave me feeling tense and full of anxiety all day. But I can't do anything about that right now. I can move on, start over, and detach, but that doesn't change the fact that I can't leave for another few months. And until then, I don't want my kids to know any different, so I put on a fake happy smile and go about my day, or at least I try. I think about what I need to do and what happened every day, and what I would need from him to consider R, if that is even something I would be interested in doing after this much time has gone by.

Thank you for your replies, and small 2x4's I really understand what your talking about. And I get it, I just can't do it right now, I am in limbo with my heart, but I am nailed to the fence financially and other ways even if my heart wasn't in limbo.

Based on what you've written, I do think that you are off-base by requiring this as a starting point for R.

Sultan has never had my back, either. And while he may not have engaged in *bash Gonna* parties with his family, the tenor of the conversations and the subtlety of tone definitely encouraged a disrespectful attitude.

I sense that same type of thing in regards to your WH. He doesn't respect you right now, so even if he were to *out* himself to his parents the whole 'underlying' tone would not come across in a way that you need it to. The words he uses may be the *right* ones, but I'll bet that his tone and body language would be sending a different message and any type of *defense* he would make for you would come across as more condescending and placating towards you than supportive of you.

I'm wondering if maybe you should un-muzzle your SIL and let her be the one to spill the beans about what her brother has done and why you are out-of-sorts with him......

gonnabe;

I'm wondering if maybe you should un-muzzle your SIL and let her be the one to spill the beans about what her brother has done and why you are out-of-sorts with him......

I've thought about this, a lot actually. I wished back then that I hadn't said no to her asking if she should tell her parents. I have gone back and forth, I however don't want WH and SIL's relationship to be messed up because of this though. She seems to have forgiven him, altough they have never talked about it between the two of them (that I know of), I am pretty sure if she knew we were still rocky because of his A she would be there for me, again. She was the one that was pushing for me to kick his ass out when he was bouncing back and forth between ddays and false R. I haven't mentioned it to her since the end of his A, she's not stupid though I am sure she can tell we (WH and I) haven't not been the same since this.

Personally, I see this as more motivated by making it a punishment than making it about your healing and a carte blanc to continue your current negative behavior. Now, I am not saying you shouldn't expect him to help you heal or that you should not be angry. But I feel this is very much the wrong path.

First of all, I doubt it would change his parents' behavior. It may make them circle the wagons and force you even further to the perimeter.

Secondly, if you are looking to his behaviors to justify your own behaviors, that is not a good long-term outlook for true reconciliation. You have to own your choices and behaviors just as he has to own his. Sure, you may have a teacup full of shit and he may have a dumpster-load, but it doesn't mean that you don't have to own that teacup. You do, and you don't have a right to throw it at him just because he has a dumpster full.

I think IC would be really helpful for you right now. I don't see your WS anywhere near ready to reconcile, and you need to work on yourself so that you can be strong enough to do what makes the most sense for you.

Cat

I ratted my cheating H out to his mom the moment I found out. We lived with them then. Fuck him. I didn't cheat and I had FOO issues and "I" should've been the one to cheat. But, that was my first instinct to leave him and their house, in which HE brought us to...

Take care of you, try not to focus on IL's just yet. You two have A LOT to deal with.

I've been asking my FWH to apologize to my dad and he hasn't yet. I'm not forcing him. H does say my dad's nice to him again. I come from a very loving family, unlike his. He's probably scared and not ready...plus, both partners have a lot to deal with, not just BS...NOt downplaying your position, but I find I have a lot of compassion and empathy for my H now...

Good luck, sweetie.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 12:48 PM, June 14th (Friday)]

Yea, I was thinking of a more gentle approach. I didn't mean that you should do a 'shock-and-awe', release the hounds type of thing. More of a "ya know, sil, if you hear your mom comment that I am being bitchy....it is okay for you to talk to her about what is going on" kinda thing. And not to cause drama, but to give a 'fair' picture. Your SIL seems pretty level-headed and also seems to feel some level of loyalty to you, so it may be bothering her to have to listen to your MIL bash on you and not be able to come to your defense at all.

But I still personally feel that this whole IL thing is a peripheral issue and should be very low on the priority list right now.

Scangel, I am sorry you are stuck there. I didn't intend to imply you need to bail out today. More that I think it might be more useful to turn your thoughts inward, toward yourself. Continue to heal yourself, focus on you. 180, or whatever. YOU are what is important and I think keeping your eye on that ball will be very helpful for you in the long run.

I've been lucky enough to have a supportive SIL as well. She didn't get involved in anyway but she was supportive when I neede someone to talk to who knew how challenging WH was but didn't hate him for it because she will always accept him even with his flaws. Maybe you could talk to SIL now and tell her how you feel, including the fact that you don't want to hurt her relationship with her brother. Let it be her choice as to how she deals with it. Also, she might help give you some perspective as well, in the same way my SIL did. They have known each other their whole lives.

Thank you everyone for your replies, and no this wanting WH to confess to his parents about why we are the way we are together, was never about punishing him. I want him to admit to someone that he fucked up, because he's never even told me that. Sure he's told me sorry and he regretting hurting me the way he did, but he never just broke down in an apology and said how sorry he was and how bad he fucked everything up. I know that has to come from him, and its been almost 3 years since the A ended, so I'm not holding my breath any longer for that true heat filled apology. Would telling his parents really help my healing probably not, but i thought maybe it would make me feel even a teeny tiny bit better about his regrets.

And Rebreather, I appreciate your post, yeah it was hard to hear, but it made me think... I go thru these stages, where I'm either on SI constantly or barely at all. I have been on here a lot lately, posting quite often. And I realized when you said in your last post that I needed to look into myself and focus on myself. And I realized, when I'm not on SI I'm comforted with the knowledge that I'm OK, I know what I want to do, and that's start over. Then I second guess myself, feel guilty for my kids, and embarrassed to say, but I feel guilty for wanting to leave WH. So I come on here, start posting a lot and get pulled out of my thoughts letting everyone that knows exactly how I feel tell me what I should do. I don't have to think about my needs, or what I should do. Because at those times (like now and the past couple weeks) I feel so lost and lonely and worthless. I feel like I would rather stay in a loveless marriage for my kids then to be alone and taking my kids away from their family. I know that may not make sense, but I second guess myself on everything so I reach out here and I can get lost in the other people's problems that are so close to mine, and I can write down the struggles that are clouding my mind and my heart and someone can come and tell me what I should do. I get out of my own head and get some answers too.

My world has become so sad, I thought going through severe post partum depression was the worst thing that could ever happen to me, but I would rather go thru that a 100 times then be where I have been for the past 3 years, with no end in sight. The constant roller coaster ride, knowing you feel good now but that the down hill spiral triple loop is just around the corner, just weighs down on me to a point I am considering quitting school and giving up on ever being truly happy. I HATE THIS!!! God I hope he thinks it was worth it because I am falling apart at the seems and yet he has been more distant the past few days then he has been since the A was over. I'm losing my fucking mind!!!

[This message edited by scangel3 at 5:57 PM, June 14th (Friday)]

I know honey. It hurts so bad. It is so easy for people on the outside to look in and see that you just deserve so much more. You are obviously a bright, kind, compassionate person. You deserve a life of happiness. You are not taking your children away from their family. You are showing them how they should be treated in their own adult reltionships. And you are showing them what a strong, capable person you are. You will make it through this, and you will thrive. I am sure of it. Be easy on yourself.