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[This message edited by 41andthankful at 7:33 AM, June 28th (Friday)]

You don't get to pick and choose which vow you are going to quote. That's like the commonly misquoted passage in the bible where it says that the wife doesn't rule over her body, but the husband does. Funny how certain people "forget" that in the VERY SAME sentence it also says likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does.

Break one, and you've essentially broken them all. Which should be apparent to anyone with half a wit.

STBXWW basically said the same thing. I told her I wanted a D and her response was "At least I take my M vows seriously!"

It's all an attempt to deflect the guilt and blame for their poor choices.

*for better or for worse* were part of our vows. I had hoped for more of the former and less of the later though.

Break one, and you've essentially broken them all.

My thoughts exactly.

IMO "for better or for worse" means the crap that life throws at us, which we're supposed to handle together, like sickness, financial problems, losing parents, snotty kids, injuries, etc., not a spouse's intentional acts of betrayal. He needs to come up with something better than that.

SI, Did you say for better or for worse and did you really believe in your vows or just recite them?

When we said them the first time, I don't think either one of us knew what we were saying or what it all meant. Our dysfunctions fit together perfectly, and we danced an intricate dance of mutual f*ed-up-ness for 12 years.

Then I got sober. The healthier I got, the less willing I was to perform my part of the dance. It careened out of control until he found a dance partner. And then all hell broke loose.

When we finally had both done the work in IC to become healthy, whole people who could commit to a true M, our vow renewal was perfect for us. We wrote our vows and our ceremony. It was all deeply meaningful and exactly what we wanted to say to each other, to our sons, to our families and to God.

My wedding vows did not include a clause about accepting abuse OR staying in the marriage if the other broke their vows. There is nothing in the vows which says I have to give up self-preservation and die on the alter of marriage.

My marriage was LONG over by the time I got around to filing for divorce.

SI, Did you say for better or for worse and did you really believe in your vows or just recite them?

Shortly after D-day I really struggled with this question? I though about it often during R. When I took my vows, I meant them, but realized I did not fully understand what all of them meant. For me, I decided that infidelity did fall under the vow of "for worse". As long as my FWW showed remorse for her actions and wanted R, then I should at least try to R.

As a result, I gave myself one year to make a decision about leaving the marriage. I also threw myself 100% into R and making things work. My thought was, if things fail after 1 year, I want to walk away believing I did everything I could to make it work.

I am so glad I made that choice. At 6 years out, we are happily reconciled and I have no regrets.

Yes, we said for better or for worse. And I tried to R, tried to hang on... despite the fact that he had been unfaithful to me, not just by being with the OW, but financially, by being emotionally and mentally abusive, and by lying to me from the time we met about the person he was - what he liked, what he believed, what he wanted.

I eventually realized that not only was calling it quits on the M when he refused to quit seeing the OW right, I should have D'd him years before that because of the emotional/mental abuse. The only reason I didn't was because I sincerely believed in those vows and that D wasn't an option because of them.

The part I didn't see until I made the decision to D? That those vows are a contract, and once one side has broken the contract, there is no obligation for the other side to continue with the contract.

Everyone makes small mistakes at some point or another. One gets mad and yells at the other - not exactly "honoring". Or gets tired of taking care of the other when he/she is sick...

But that is not breaking the vows/contract. Willfully going outside of the marriage, repeatedly being mentally/emotionally abusive, lying (or just omitting to tell) extensively about finances (breaking the part about honoring and "keeping", meaning to take care of each other) - THAT'S breaking the vows.

And once one person breaks those vows, it is up to the other person to decide if he/she wishes to continue to try and repair that contract and go forward with it, or to declare it null and void.

Typical WS blame-shifting.

Honestly, I think we were too young to realize exactly what forever and for better or worse really meant (I was 17, he was 19). I really wasn't sure what the "worse" would or could mean...really I don't think anyone thinks the worse could really be something bad, especially on their wedding day. At our vow renewal both of us meant what we said and I intend to keep my vows, but now I understand the extent of the better and the worse.