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So, if they're broken, then they get away with it?

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libertyrocks posted 6/17/2013 10:32 AM

My H has deep rooted FOO issues, okay, I know, who doesn't right?

But, does that mean he gets a free cheating pass for life?? Oh, because he's broken and his daddy never showed or told him he loved him and he and his mom got hit all the time. I do feel really bad for him, but really? I just don't get it. Still.

Well, I had crazier shit happen to me and I sure didn't cheat.

Now what? I'm having a hard time making sense of this...

Need a little help here.

Thanks for reading,
Libbey. :)

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 10:36 AM, June 17th (Monday)]

itainteasy posted 6/17/2013 10:36 AM

No way. We all have FOO. We don't all chose to cheat.

No free pass.

Kelany posted 6/17/2013 10:37 AM

Why would you think this is a free pass? Who told you that?

My FWH is a SA, has PTSD, bipolar, PD and FOO issues (abandonment) and he certainly is NOT getting a free pass. He's owning his shit. He's in therapy, on meds, working hard at R.

WhatsRight posted 6/17/2013 10:40 AM

No free passes. No way.

But I know I feel less horrible about my husband's infidelity knowing that he has extreme FOO issues, etc. than to just think he is a horrible person for no reason.

Maybe that's naive.

karmahappens posted 6/17/2013 10:45 AM

But, does that mean he gets a free cheating pass for life

Only if you give it to him.

We all have foo issues,(most...never all ;) ) and those of us that want to get better get some IC and dig deep.

It sucks but in the end is so rewarding.

Concentrate on healing you, let him carry his own shit.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 10:46 AM, June 17th (Monday)]

atsenaotie posted 6/17/2013 11:06 AM

No.

FWW had FOO and other issues. What this has meant for her is that for the M to R she not only had to address the entire damage done by her betrayals, but she also had to address and repair her FOO and behavioral issues.

I get that she was uncomfortable with emotional intimacy, may have had an attachment disorder. I get that to her feelings were facts and so if she felt unloved it meant to her I did not love her. I get that CSAb and being an ACOA did a number on her.

These all became a part of the things she needed to fix after dday if she wanted to R with me. If these were a part of her "Whys?" then they needed to be a part of her recovery and becoming a safer person to be M to.

After dday and the growth I have had to go through as a part of my healing, there is no reason why I would accept a spouse who was unable to be an intimate partner, unable to be honest, who had substance or other addiction problems, who did not want to be with me out of a healthy love.

Knowing what I know now, even if FWW had never cheated, these things needed to be fixed in order for us to have a healthy and successful M.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:07 AM, June 17th (Monday)]

JanaGreen posted 6/17/2013 11:11 AM

Well, that's really your choice - what is and isn't acceptable to you?

forgivenesswins posted 6/17/2013 11:26 AM

It depends on whether you want to allow it to be.
On the one hand, if you are going to forgive, that means to wipe the slate clean.
There is no tit-for-tat where he messes up and then asks for forgiveness and so you punish him for it & remind him all the time that he messed up before you let him stay. That's not a happy situation for either one of you.
Just letting him stay, in and of itself, is not forgiveness. You need get to a point where you know & feel it in your heart that he loves you and you love him and you can move forward together.
On the other hand, if he continues to mess up, and continues to hurt you, there may come a point where you just won't be able to forgive anymore. If he chocks it up to FOO issues everytime and doesn't do anything to correct it, you need to be in a place where you KNOW you can or cannot continue to forgive it.

sisoon posted 6/17/2013 12:58 PM

In one sense, no free pass, ever.

The best punishment is to withdraw your love - but you can't do that if you R. As long as you're together, anything that punishes him has negative effects on you. In that sense, you have to give him a free pass to R - not because of FOO issues, but because it's the nature of R.

I have FOO issues, and I haven't cheated. I once developed a crush on a woman, after 10 years of M. I kept myself from being alone with her, and when she complained (with good reason) about her H, I talked about my W positively. I did this despite pessimism, self-hate, belief that my W would leave me one day anyway, etc. I had my crush at a long class away from home. When I got back home, I started therapy.

A cheater is broken, but in some ways almost all of us are. Broken-ness is an excuse.

But if we R, we have to let our WS off the hook.

hathnofury posted 6/17/2013 13:11 PM

The way I see it, being broken in and of itself isn't a free pass for cheating. It's a compass for how to address the underlying issues that made you broken enough to cheat, so you own your shit, fix it, and make restitution for what you have done.

But maybe I am naive too.

libertyrocks posted 6/17/2013 13:48 PM

Sisoon

But if we R, we have to let our WS off the hook

That was the answer I was looking for.

And, forgivenesswins,

if you are going to forgive, that means to wipe the slate clean

So, there it is. It's always harder to take the path less travelled...and to turn the other cheek...

He's 110% committed to R, IC/MC, finally going to start his 12 step/AA...He's sorry, he feels bad, etc...

I'm giving it a year, but this may very well be my dealbreaker...

Thanks for your honesty and imput everyone. :)

sisoon posted 6/17/2013 18:00 PM

lib, I know the following advice is unasked for, but WTH, I'm anonymous....

IIRC, it took me well over a year to get comfortable with this, so it makes sense to be very angry at your point in the recovery process.

Keep your focus on what you want. If in a year this is a deal breaker, so be it. If you come to a decision earlier, so be it. An if you change your mind, so be it. You're in control of yourself.

SecondHelping posted 6/17/2013 18:30 PM

If you and I know that FOO issues don't get to the why's and give them a free pass, why is it fWW IC is spending so much time on it. She's been going for 8 months and they haven't discussed the A yet.

solus sto posted 6/17/2013 19:06 PM

No. If he's broken,he becomes responsible for mending himself AND the damage he's done to the marriage.

Ashland13 posted 6/17/2013 19:27 PM

No, being broken isn't a free pass, it's an explanation, a reason, something to consider and comprehend beside the actions. Maybe FOO things are roots of why one person might cheat but not another?

And I agree with the post that says it feels better to contemplate all that happened with reasons behind it.

Counseling, I think, is like music lessons, where when done right, isn't finished in any short period of time. FOO issues are major, major things in a person's life and this is not an excuse by any means, but if they are "real", take eons to address. It's by no means saying an A should not be discussed and I don't want to give that impression.

IRN2006 posted 6/17/2013 20:49 PM

Here's what I think: I think that people are either are born with a personality that upholds boundaries over everything else and some aren't.

I think it's nature and nurture-what you are born with and how you are raised.

My 9 yo is a very black and white thinker. Has been from day 1. He doesn't understand why people do things, on purpose to break the law, or get high, or anything like that. It just doesn't enter his realm of understanding.

I'm sort of the same way. I don't "get" addiction. I mean, I understand the ins and outs in an academic sense, because I'm married to a recovering SA. But, fundamentally, I do NOT understand why my husband chose porn to deal with life. There are about 100,000 other things he could have done to help himself manage his emotions.

Now, I grew up with a primary caregiver that had untreated mental illness. Of course I learned some bad behaviors. But, they were learned, and I was able to unlearn them over the course of 18 months or so.

I also don't believe all people are screwed up. I mean, really, really screwed up. That would mean that the general stats done about how much of the general population has an addiction, has untreated mental illness are WAY way off base. I choose not to believe that 90% of the population is either addicted, has untreated mental illness, or is living in an abusive relationship (with extended or nuclear family.)

I think we need to be careful about the role of FOO in ourselves and our recoveries. Ultimately, our recoveries (both personal and the marriage if it applies) depends on our willingness to change our behaviors. That's on us, only.

Bluebird26 posted 6/18/2013 03:53 AM

No way, no free pass.

They can choose to be a victim of the foo issues or they can get some help to deal with their inner demons once and for all.

It only becomes a free pass if you let it be.

rachelc posted 6/18/2013 06:42 AM

I really struggle with this. Even if they're not broken (and we know that they are)they still get a free pass. I've said this over and over to MC/IC. So, he got to do that and all he got was a pissed off wife for a year? Maybe if I saw him posting here, reading more (any!). If the wayward doesnt' feel badly about what happened it IS a free pass, IMO.
He does go to IC/MC....and hates it.


I'm not sure if he feels this way about what I did. The karma bus hit me pretty hard though.

[This message edited by rachelc at 6:44 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

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