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User Topic: What does forgiveness mean to you?
twodoves
♀ 39181
Member # 39181
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


What does it specifically mean to you when you forgive your WS, or as a WS when you feel forgiven?

I've been thinking about it lately and i have no clear answer.


Me - BS
Him - WS (N3v3rG1v1ngUp)
Together 7 years, married for 2
He was cheating for 5 years
5 OW
D-days: 4/23/13, 4/27/13, 5/10/13
1 toddler, baby girl on the way in December

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Illinois
powerthroughpain
♂ 39165
Member # 39165
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness allows you to grow. It is for you. It allows you to live in the present instead of the past where the affair exists.

Even if your spouse were to leave you in the worst possible way, you would still need to forgive him or her, because forgiveness is ultimately for you. Don't accept their gift of poison. Let them carry the burden of the affair and know that the affair was not about you.

Your spouse had flaws that allowed him or her to break themselves in order to commit an affair. It doesn't matter who they are with, they are damaged and they need counseling in order for them to grow. But you can't fix them, they have to do it on their own.

I'm 7 weeks out from the dday of my wife's ea/pa. I've grown a lot because I worked painfully towards forgiving so that I could grow. And you have to accept that you may grow away from your spouse. Once you truly forgive, you will have more clarity and see your spouse for who he or she is as well as the quality of the marriage.


14 years together 1 dd 3 yold
5 years married
WW dday 4/23/13 8 month ea/pa
WW in ic
Separated
No contact finally 6/3/13
Not working on r
Filing for d

Posts: 29 | Registered: May 2013 | From: powerthroughpain
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't figured out forgiveness, but I do not believe it is necessary for my well being.

Acceptance, yes. Accepting what has happened is critical to moving forward. I agree with Janis Spring, though, in How Can I Forgive You that forgiveness is a transaction between two people.

I'm sure I will forgive FWH someday. I doubt I will forgive the unremorseful MOW. I don't wish her ill any longer, and I think that is plenty!


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Nov 2010
Missymomma
♀ 36988
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading a good book. How Can I Forgive You?

It talks about forgiveness and the misconceptions on forgiveness. That rushing into forgiveness without remorse is just cheap forgiveness and will backfire. It is a long process and I am going to take as much time as I need to get there. Acceptance will definitely come before forgiveness.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
powerthroughpain
♂ 39165
Member # 39165
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By not forgiving, do you mean holding resentment and anger towards someone? If that's the case then you are only poisoning yourself. You feeling bad inside doesn't hurt anyone else, just you.


14 years together 1 dd 3 yold
5 years married
WW dday 4/23/13 8 month ea/pa
WW in ic
Separated
No contact finally 6/3/13
Not working on r
Filing for d

Posts: 29 | Registered: May 2013 | From: powerthroughpain
crazyblindsided
♀ 35215
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is not deserving of forgiveness yet. Forgiveness to me means that he has changed for the better and never wants to repeat that mistake again. When he owns enough of the A and feels enough remorse (which hasn't been enough). Until then I am taking care of ME and not going to focus on HIM.

I think WS's have a lot to prove before they should be forgiven. That's me though and I tend to be a grudge holder


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
LA44
♀ 38384
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right now I am working my way towards acceptance. As someone else said, that comes first. I did not imagine myself saying that even 6-8 weeks ago.

Funny....I went to see Oprah in Toronto last year. Our show was about.... Forgiveness. I remember looking at my bf and said confidently, "you know, short of anyone doing harm to my kids, I think I could forgive anyone for just about anything."

Guess what big mouth? The gods were listening!

But seriously, forgiveness to me means, freedom. I am determined to get there one day. I don't wish any ill will on my H.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2610 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
powerthroughpain
♂ 39165
Member # 39165
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness allowed me to grow immensely. Because of this growth, I achieved clarity and I could see my spouse for who she was. Even if we do find ourselves back in love, she will have to change certain behaviors patterns of hers that plagued our relationship. I was to more clearly to set my own standard of care and feeding because I was able to forgive the affair. That does not mean condoning or that the work is done. It just means that I can move on and love again. Often, UN forgiveness may impede reconciliation. There are plenty of stories in this forum with people that are 3+ years into reconciliation. After a certain point, it does take two to tango, or you must realize that the wayward is who he or she is, broken and unfixable.


14 years together 1 dd 3 yold
5 years married
WW dday 4/23/13 8 month ea/pa
WW in ic
Separated
No contact finally 6/3/13
Not working on r
Filing for d

Posts: 29 | Registered: May 2013 | From: powerthroughpain
Missymomma
♀ 36988
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love this book. It is very clear that codependent spouses tend to rush forgiveness.

If, you, like Phyllis, have a propensity to forgive too easily, you may be responding not to a particular interaction but to early childhood patterns. To access them, I encourage you to look closely at how you routinely react to injury. Ask yourself:

Do I compulsively seek to repair relationships, regardless of the circumstances or my feelings?

Do I beat up on myself when someone mistreats me?

Do I make excuses for the offender?

Do I repress or deny a violation?

Do I fail to know my anger or my despair?

Do I fail to voice my objections or my needs?

Do I often feel powerless, trapped, manipulated, snuffed out?

Do I pardon the offender as a way of asserting my control, dominance, or moral superiority?

Do I extend a generosity of spirit to everyone, and therefore to no one?

Is Cheap Forgiveness my typical, robotic response when someone hurts me?

If so, does it serve me in this particular situation, or should I consider another tack?

What you may discover is that your characteristic response is not necessarily your healthiest—that it makes more sense, sometimes, to offer the offender an opportunity to apologize and seek forgiveness.


Spring, Janis A. (2009-10-13). How Can I Forgive You? (p. 33). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
AFrayedKnot
♂ 36622
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgiveness for me is when I am no longer looking for retribution.


BS 40
fWS 37 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2670 | Registered: Aug 2012
twodoves
♀ 39181
Member # 39181
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what forgiveness means to me, because I don't think i'm capable of it in this situation. When I think about years down the line, I can't see myself ever getting to the point where I fully forgive. I guess because I feel like it will never truly be in the past.


Me - BS
Him - WS (N3v3rG1v1ngUp)
Together 7 years, married for 2
He was cheating for 5 years
5 OW
D-days: 4/23/13, 4/27/13, 5/10/13
1 toddler, baby girl on the way in December

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Illinois
refuz2bavictim
♀ 27176
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've probably answered this question before, and I'll bet I gave a different answer than the one I am about to give....not that it would necessarily contradict what I am about to say.

On the simplest level I believe that forgiveness is about releasing the burden. Whatever the burden of the transgression may be...it is freedom from being weighed down by it.

Forgiveness is not required, I just think it lightens the load.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
powerthroughpain
♂ 39165
Member # 39165
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@two doves
It sounds like you have your answer. If you don't see yourself forgiving him, maybe there is more than the affair that's holding you back. Listen to your gut, don't torture yourself or anybody else for years on end.


14 years together 1 dd 3 yold
5 years married
WW dday 4/23/13 8 month ea/pa
WW in ic
Separated
No contact finally 6/3/13
Not working on r
Filing for d

Posts: 29 | Registered: May 2013 | From: powerthroughpain
RightTrack
♀ 36976
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do well when I forget; when I get so caught up in daily life/work/kids/laundry and dinner. But then when I remember it all comes crashing down. I either get really angry ( I broke my hand hitting the computer table or I get suicidal. { a depression I snap out of }. I can't yet integrate what he did with my life and who I am. I think I'm a long ways from acceptance or forgiveness.

Posts: 643 | Registered: Sep 2012
cdnmommy
♀ 30182
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By not forgiving, do you mean holding resentment and anger towards someone? If that's the case then you are only poisoning yourself. You feeling bad inside doesn't hurt anyone else, just you.

I'm not sure if this was directed at my comment. Not forgiving is not about holding on to resentment. I have to accept that my former so-called friend betrayed me (as did my FWH). As I reach acceptance, my feelings of hatred have faded to disdain and finally to dislike. My dislike of her does not translate into feeling bad, poisoning myself, etc. If not forgiving someone means that to you, then that is fine, but it is projecting to assume that not forgiving someone is somehow damaging to everyone.

The truth is that I am a very forgiving person. I have empathy in spades and that actually made it harder for me in the early days. I was uncomfortable feeling that strongly negative about someone that I once cared for. But it is empowering to me to know that my feelings toward her are valid, and that I don't have to forgive her. Forcing myself to do so will not help me, and I am quite certain my forgiveness means nothing to her either, or I would have heard some remorse from her.

As for my FWH, I am not choosing not to forgive him. I am choosing to allow time and effort on both our parts to get me there. I believe that it will happen organically, and that my time and effort is better spent on working on our relationship and how we deal with each other than trying to force it.

There is no one right way to deal with it, and I disagree with ever trying to push someone to forgive before they are ready.

[This message edited by cdnmommy at 12:16 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Nov 2010
LosferWords
♂ 30369
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me, the word "forgiven" is now a bit of a foreign concept to me. I think true forgiveness always remains in the present tense, not the past. It is a part of the healing process. Even though things that hurt me were in the past, the hurt is still in the present. At the same time, forgiveness is in the present, and the hurt is fading as forgiveness grows.

Good topic, and well wishes to you as you choose your own path, twodoves.


Posts: 8009 | Registered: Dec 2010
musiclovingmom
♀ 38207
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone posted this a while back. It so clearly articulated how I feel about forgiveness that I saved it to my notes.

“Forgiveness is not about forgetting. It is about letting go of another person's throat......Forgiveness does not create a relationship. Unless people speak the truth about what they have done and change their mind and behavior, a relationship of trust is not possible. When you forgive someone you certainly release them from judgment, but without true change, no real relationship can be established.........Forgiveness in no way requires that you trust the one you forgive. But should they finally confess and repent, you will discover a miracle in your own heart that allows you to reach out and begin to build between you a bridge of reconciliation.........Forgiveness does not excuse anything.........You may have to declare your forgiveness a hundred times the first day and the second day, but the third day will be less and each day after, until one day you will realize that you have forgiven completely. And then one day you will pray for his wholeness......”
― Wm. Paul Young, The Shack


Posts: 1141 | Registered: Jan 2013
cosmicjoke
♀ 39159
Member # 39159
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, June 19th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It doesn't mean anything to me.. because I don't do it, never will. And you know what..? That's OK. I don't believe there is any 'universal law' that you have to. That's a widely-believed myth. Just go with what works for you.

Posts: 234 | Registered: May 2013
wert
♂ 34478
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, June 19th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess because I feel like it will never truly be in the past.

It already is. What is keeping it in the present and future is you. :)

take care...



Posts: 1446 | Registered: Jan 2012
Topic Posts: 19

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