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Jennifer99 posted 6/19/2013 14:21 PM

I asked him some questions last night. It was the first time that he didn't get mad at me for asking questions so I didn't push it too far.

I told him that when we went to dinner and I saw a blonde with a child like the EA/OW that I wanted to turn around and leave. I told him it freaks me out that I won't know her when I run into her but she'll know me.

He said he would LOVE to move. I asked him if it was because he was afraid for me to run into her. He said no, he would be fine with ME running into her but he spends a part of each day trying to make sure not to have a "chance" encounter with her himself.

We all live in the same county and cross into each other's towns for kid activities and work and such.

Does moving sound drastic? Is it possible it would help him relax and focus more on what he needs to fix in himself? So I uproot, move, he doesn't fix himself, then does this again somewhere else. I'm going to spend my whole future moving around? Ok, stupid question. Because I think if this happened again I would just give the hell up.

Jospehine85 posted 6/19/2013 14:30 PM

For some people moving is a tremendous help.

But you are right that even if you move your WH needs figure out why he did it and develop better coping mechanisms. Would moving help him relax? Sure, cause then he could put OW completely out of his mind and forget it. That is probably one of his coping mechanisms. It might be better if he could gradually work on being able to face his problems head on and behave the PROPER way when he runs in to them.

How is it that you live near enought to this OW that your paths could easily cross, yet you do not know who she is or what she looks like? How do you know she has a blonde child?

Jennifer99 posted 6/19/2013 15:23 PM

She and he worked together in a town that sort of forms a triangle with my town and her town. Apparently she saw me around his workplace, even once at the mall as a family.
He never said "oh, there's soNso".

I've never seen her. I don't even have a last name just a first name. He asked me to not go back to his place of work since he was fired from there.

I do know she has a husband and child. I do know some of our friends from one kid activity have children that go to school with her child.

Little things came out here and there. I, foolishly, at one point was thinking we were at the point of buying our first home together. One of the places I looked would have been in her town and he flipped a nutty. First he said it was because of the crappy schools but then he went into a blind panic when I suggested the private school where he child attends I guess. I look back at it now and lmao thinking of his panic but then I get mad thinking of all the time I wasted looking for a home. Stupido.

He nearly had a stroke when I started taking Tai Chi classes at a place she attended for some other art. That is 4 blocks from my house. I can't drive down that street on certain nights because he doesn't want to see her. I told him piss off, I wasn't putting off something for me because of her. I have yet to run into any blondes there.

Anything I know about her is the tiny bit here and there that he would say/give in response to something like "we can't move there, she lives there"; "DS can't go to school there, her son goes to school there"; those kind of things. I know she's blonde because on DDay he slipped and said "I hate the whole blonde cliche....but".

I have honored his requests not to go to his old place of work and I've since found a new/better Tai Chi school.

Jennifer99 posted 6/19/2013 15:25 PM

Oh and I have no idea what her kid's hair color is. It was a blonde with a kid with a t-shirt of the tai chi school.

confused615 posted 6/19/2013 15:26 PM

I would go to her job. He has no right to ask you not to go see what she looks like. There doesn't have to be any confrontation,but you have every right to go take a peek at the woman your husband had an affair with.

He knows her last name. He isn't telling you who she is for a reason..Im sorry,but it sounds like he is protecting her...and/or himself.

Her husband needs to be told. He deserves to know.

Moving seems drastic...especially since your problem of not knowing what she looks like can easily be solved by your WH finding his balls and manning up and telling you what you have every right to know.

Im sorry,but it sounds like there's more to this than you know..his refusal to tell you her name..not wanting you to go to his old job to see what she looks like...wanting to move...he is trying to stop you from finding out *something* Since you said this was an guess is this was a PA and he is desperate to stop you from finding out.

[This message edited by confused615 at 3:31 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

Jennifer99 posted 6/19/2013 15:38 PM

Confused - that is what I thought too. He says no. I can't let go of those thoughts.

He has told me he isn't worried about ME running into her. He is only worried about running into her himself.

He also told me that when he was fired from his work (their work) that it was for harassment and she had info about him searching her on the computer and if he persisted there would be charges.

I think he hates her H and would like to tell him but he fears the set up from the end of their days at work.

I can't really "pop in" there. They worked overnights in a store. She'd see me in the parking lot/ pick-up & drop-off (we only have 1 car) occasionally. If I was going there to confront her it would be to confront her and everyone in the place would know it as its a pretty desolate parking lot at night.

confused615 posted 6/19/2013 15:53 PM

Honey..he is lying. Cheaters lie..and lie..and minimize.

The story about her saying she had proof he searched for her on the computer? Lie.

He is afraid of running into her? Lie.

He is NOT worried about you running into her? big fat LIE.

And he is lying for a reason.

Why won't he tell you her name?

Please stop listening to him. Listen to your gut. Listen to your common sense. He is lying for a reason. What is that reason?

You can not R without the truth...and this man is lying his ass off...and is so desperate to keep you from knowing,he is ok with uprooting his family and moving away.

You need to get to the truth. You deserve the truth. I'd tell him he must give you her full name in order to R...non-negotiable. If he refuses you know all you need to know..that he will continue to lie to you and protect her/himself and that is unacceptable.


Jennifer99 posted 6/19/2013 15:57 PM

I love your common sense. I need more common sense.

Thank you.

I have to head home now but I hope if I have more thoughts about this tonight and questions tomorrow you'll help.

Thank you!

daledge posted 6/19/2013 16:25 PM

Jennifer, Listen to Confused.

I would get the story out of him. You do deserve to know who this person is. And you should privately and quietly tell her husband who also deserves to know. Do it in person. You need an ally,
another set of eyes.

I would seriously think about moving. She is in your orbit way too much.

Good luck!

Ladyogilvy posted 6/19/2013 20:09 PM

I have been through exactly what you are going through now. Just add 40 of heavy drinking, totaling his sports car and a DUI arrest to the equation and you'd have my WH. He was too sick to tell the truth and the repercussions have been brutal. The night his stupid IC told me I couldn't expect anything from WH, let alone the truth, until he'd been sober a year is the night I lost it. I don't know if you can ever heal without the truth. It's been 2 1/2 years since I caught him in his web of lies. To this day he won't admit to anything I haven't had physical evidence of.

If I had known it was going to be so bad, I don't think I would have stayed. I'm not the same person I was before. I'm not as nice. I don't trust people. I'm not as happy or fun or even as pretty because this has worn me out. There isn't a day when I'm not triggered. WH has started to, slowly, incrementally, get better. He has been sober a year now. I still don't think he will ever tell the truth. We have been in MC for over a year. We've spent a small fortune on that. WH has started treating me better, showing remorse and something resembling compassion. That helps. But the fact that he protected OW and not his family still enrages me. In truth, I don't really think he was protecting OW. He was too much of a sociopath to care about anyone but himself. Obviously he had more to hide than I had physical evidence of. I repeatedly go over the facts in my head to try to make sense of them.

This is what you have to look forward to if things continue the way they are. If your WH was showing empathy and remorse, including telling you the truth and doing whatever he needs you to do for you to start trusting him again, moving would probably be a good idea. You are surrounded by triggers. You probably need to get away from there. But first, you should, with as much dignity as you can muster, make sure you know who she is and tell her BH everything you know. Give him whatever proof you have.

Take care of yourself. This is one emotional roller coaster that's no fun.

Think about who you want to be and what you want your life to be like and make it happen.

[This message edited by Ladyogilvy at 8:11 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

Jennifer99 posted 6/20/2013 08:41 AM

Thank you Ladyogilvy.

I have no proof of anything except what he has given me. I never suspected. I was just miserable in my life and how he was treating me like the enemy so I went to him when I had my 41st bday and said "I'm making some big changes in my life, you want to be a part or no?" He put me off for a few weeks (probably because he knew what was going to happen at work) then the day he got fired broke down and told me why - he was in love with his supervisor and had said something about it to the "wrong person" (another woman who wanted him that he turned down) and she told the big boss who fired him.

My only "proof" - The write up from work firing him.

I've never seen any of the people involved, never talked to any of them, I do know they exist because of another person H worked with that I bump into from time to time.

My big issue wasn't even that he was in love with his supervisor. My first thought was he was delusional. He has problems with reality, no joke, its scary how he rewrites things in his head. I figured this girl was probably just nice to him, he calls it flirting. Then he thinks she is wonderful, pursues her and freaks her out, he got a warning (I also saw) from a time he wrote her a letter telling her his feelings (I didn't see the letter) and the warning said they were to keep their "relationship" professional and about work only. He gave her a Christmas present which she gave to the big boss who told H he had to stop, any more problems and he'd be fired (no written proof of this one). Then when he popped off to the unwanted woman and she told the big boss it was the last straw.

That could ALL be lies, this OW could have had PA with him then tried to back off or something, I really can't tell. But what if she didn't DO anything but be her happy self he fell in love with then I try and talk to her and it gets H in more 'harassment' trouble and causes more trouble for this woman? I would feel awful. If she was being a skanky ho then I wouldn't care.

I think this is why I feel so in limbo because I don't know what is real. His story has come out in bits and pieces over the last year. Nothing has never NOT meshed with previous tellings.

I could try and find her and talk to her. She could be the vic of harassment from H and I'm causing her more pain/problems. She could be his XPA and tell me horrible stuff truth or untruth. She could be his XPA and tell me nothing.

Its just too much swirling around in my head even a year later.

Ashland13 posted 6/20/2013 09:23 AM

Is there anyway to put thoughts of her out of your head, even for brief periods?

For a time after DDay, I found myself fixed on this person who "stole" my H away.

I find it rather hysterical that prior to DDay, when he was still pretending to be M and was also with her, he was job searching in an area near her and quite away from "our house". It was a large employer that had him for several interviews and they had many jobs that I could do and qualify for, while where we live has little to no employment.

I actually began talking about applying for some of those jobs and talking about it too him, about relocating us near there and even found the schools where DD may go-well, I found out after DDay that he was doing it as part of his plan to abandon us and begin his new life-by himself!

So now during my stronger times, I remember the look on his face of pure shock and the way he would turn beat red, but could have nothing to say without giving away what he was really doing!

And for Jennifer, I can see your dilemma like a coin with two sides, where it would be a relief to some degree to be away from OW and things related to the person, but yes, like some posts say, it would also allow rug sweeping. There is the uprooting factor, which is never easy and I don't care how "resilient" people say kids are...I am still scarred from moving as a child and never having roots.

I wish you peace during your time of indecision.

There are some other common things we have, because during false R I suspect that OW was brought to the areas we live, with all bird-dogging Perv would do, so much that he could hardly drive a straight line or concentrate on a dinner out, looking around -I know now, looking for Ow. It was awful.

Jennifer99 posted 6/20/2013 10:01 AM

Most days I don't think of her at all until something like going to dinner and seeing someone who "might" be her sets me off.

The place I am thinking of moving - one, closer to my family - win for everyone BUT H or, two, closer to a place my son LOVES and we spend a lot of time for one of his hobbies but there aren't a lot of jobs (cheap houses, not a lot of jobs). Either of those moves would make him jump for joy as long as it is all "together". Our last move was all of like 6 blocks from an apt to a house rental and my son STILL moans about missing our old place, he was only there about 12 months! Sheesh.

Jospehine85 posted 6/20/2013 13:09 PM

You are in a bit of a pickle.

But there is no point talking to the potential OW.

1. If she did have a PA with your husband, she can never confess to it. She got your husband fired for harassment and he would have grounds to sue her if she confessed. Also, her employer would have no recourse but to fire her. She won't confess to a PA

2. If she did not have a PA and was a harassment victim, it could push her to get a restraining order.

I think your only solutions would be to have your husband get a polygraph or accept you will never know (and statistically that will not bode well for your marriage).

I think Jennifer99, you are concentrating on a tree and not seeing the forest. The real issue here is not whether he slept with or merely harassed this woman.

The issues are he is behaving in a completely untrustworthy manner. He won't tell you the information you have asked him for. He was fired because he continued to pursue a woman even after she rejected (or dumped) him AND he was warned not to continue. You even said he has problems with reality.

Do you want to live your life with this? What is he doing to fix these problems he has? Is he trying to be more honest? is he gradually becoming more willing to talk to you?

Jennifer99 posted 6/20/2013 14:08 PM

I have been rethinking living my life with him since before this. BUT this has been a sort of catalyst for change.

Initially he would get angry when I asked him questions. I can't even say angry though, he'd start off answering them but never liked when I kept asking but in different ways or when I acted on how I felt instead of being "dispassionate" about the discussion process. Over time here he has begun to be much more patient with my questions, even the repetitive ones, as I have learned to be more calm in our discussions.

He has stopped saying how guilty he feels and has started to tell me he is sorry (changing concern from himself - guilt; to me - remorse).

I don't know if he is more honest. I have nothing to gauge it by. I do know that he is ok with me not trusting him. For instance, last night he needed to go to a funeral. I honestly didn't believe him. He was gone 20 mins and brought me the handout from the services. Boy did I feel bad for a second but then I figured shit on that, he created this mess, whatever it takes to make me feel ok.

He doesn't know but I can scan sites he visits even incognito, get screenshots of what he is doing, have a keylogger, etc. But I don't think they were every online with their relationship (whatever you want to call it). He doesn't have a cell.

He used to have early morning workouts after he quit working, that would coincide with the time he used to work with her and I thought nothing of it. I told him his going out before dawn was bothering my sleep. He thought I was saying that because I thought he was going to her. It really hadn't crossed my mind but since he brought it up there was another good reason to find a different work out location/time/routine which he did.

I spent some time last night wondering if I should:
1) ask him for a timeline to see if it matches all the things I've heard over the last year
2) ask him for her full name
3) ask him what she drives (he's said he thought she's been parking near our house)

I think those are all reasonable requests??

I was almost going to do it last night thinking if anything just his reactions to those questions would be telling but then he had the funeral and didn't feel well. So now I'm wondering if I should discuss in IC first.

Jennifer99 posted 6/20/2013 14:12 PM

Oh and then there is the other half of me that wonders if he didn't just concoct the most perfect story to leave me STUCK.

Makes me feel all conspiracy theorist but still.

gonnabe2016 posted 6/20/2013 19:20 PM

I would completely ignore him UNTIL he gave me her name. My have to be a ball of anxiety with all of his paranoia about running into her. That's severely jacked up.

at first I was ready to throw the *he's f'n lying* flag......but after reading more about his work situation, maybe he's just some crazy wacko stalker. Either way.....the dude has some serious dysfunction going on and I wouldn't be moving anywhere with him. He needs to get his ass into IC and figure his shit out.

Jospehine85 posted 6/20/2013 21:46 PM

3) ask him what she drives (he's said he thought she's been parking near our house)

^^^^Thins does not make sense!

If he was fired for harassing her (your husband's version of the story), then why the heck is she parking near your house?

And yes, you should have a timeline, her name and the make of her vehicle. Absolutely.

There is a website that has statistics about affairs. One of the things their survey showed was that the more details that were given to the betrayed, the more likely the marriage was to survive. They extrapolated it to mean that by honestly giving up every detail asked for, trust was rebuilt.

But when no information was given, trust couldn't be rebuilt and the marriages were more likely to fail.

Jennifer99 posted 6/21/2013 08:31 AM

I don't know why she'd be parking there.

He's delusional?

He's right but she's visiting a friend in the area (town, lots of houses)?

He's right and he's lying about everything else?

Jospehine85 posted 6/24/2013 11:54 AM

He's delusional?

He's right but she's visiting a friend in the area (town, lots of houses)?

He's right and he's lying about everything else?

^^^ You need all the information to determine which this is.

If your WH was fired for real harassment and now he is delusional... he needs some serious help. If this is the case, you are dealing with someone who doesn't have his feet planted in reality and you and your marriage will never be safe.

If your WH is right that she is parking down the street and lied about everything else... your marriage is still in trouble. You won't be safe with such a liar.

If your WH is right and she is just visiting someone, then you have more to work with.

But it could also be the same make and model car as hers, but not hers.

From your description of what is going on Jennifer99, it doesn't sound like your WH is playing with a full deck. Any chance you could talk to his boss at work, off the record, let him know your concerns and see what info he can give you. In fact, you could make your WH give them permission to speak to you so you can confirm what happened. I think you should do that.

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