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TotallyPerplexed posted 6/23/2013 17:22 PM

I have a list of over 100 things that fit the "signs of a cheating spouse."
However, I have no hard facts.
I knew something was up when my spouse started to speak of another woman he knows. The way he spoke of her made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Over our twenty married years he has spoken of other women often in ordinary conversation, but that never put my instinct on alert until now. He did cheat twice before we were engaged, when we dated. I have never worried about these past cheating incidents... but this feeling I have now is similar. Something is up. I think it would be useless to hire an investigator. I have looked and looked and have only found circumstantial evidence. He is very intelligent and would not leave a digital trail... this person he is interested in is someone he can just speak with in person at work. No need for phone/computer. He is not seeing her regularly, and may not be seeing her at all anymore. I put myself in Purgatory by confronting him without proof...I just asked him. Before we were engaged when I sensed something was up, I asked him and he told me... reluctantly, but he admitted cheating. I thought he would be honest now. however now we have kids, a home, money at stake.
I have to initiate all interest in bettering our marriage, but he agrees he wants to make our marriage better, as we both know something is wrong. I feel a vast distance between us, but for me it is related to his interest in someone else. If I did not have this suspicion, I would love to work on our marriage...(we have in previous years on occasion.) However, my suspicion and the sinking feeling I may never get at the truth is gnawing at me. I just feel sick all the time. I am trying to do the 180, but when you are working on the 180, what do you do when your spouse wants to have sex?? That is so tricky for me. I feel like I am not taking care of myself to move on if I am in the same bed with someone I don't trust. On the other hand, what if I am totally misreading all the signs, and I am wrong and we are just having a difficult time and I make it worse???

Take2 posted 6/23/2013 17:29 PM

Well, I am totally a believer in trusting your gut. so - What signs are you seeing? Maybe we can help you figure things out a way to nail it down if we know more.

canteat posted 6/23/2013 17:38 PM

i agree to trust your gut. it is telling you that something is wrong-but what that is has yet to be determined but you KNOW something is amiss.

"If I did not have this suspicion, I would love to work on our marriage However, my suspicion and the sinking feeling I may never get at the truth is gnawing at me."

could working on the marriage with counseling lead you to the truth?

[This message edited by canteat at 5:39 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)]

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/23/2013 17:46 PM

Thank you. I believe in trusting my instinct, too... but there is a lot at stake with kids involved. I thought it would be easy to find solid proof, but it is not. I see a therapist on my own about this, (it has been about 8 weeks since I really felt urgently something was wrong... and a year since I have felt this distance growing.)
The therapist agrees it looks like cheating, but therapist said it could also be a mid-life crisis my 50 year old spouse is trying to work out.
Some of the signs I see are:
working out, setting up a new home gym, using rogaine, getting lasik, (he was always active, but he never really cared about his looks before... he is naturally good looking and was content to just be "outdoorsy." But now rogaine and lasik and working out to build muscle??? This is out of character. He never wanted lasik, he would never even wear contacts. he was fine wearing glasses for all the years I have known him.)
He uses my wrinkle cream around his eyes. (this is a guy who barely wore any lotion before.)
More on my list:
a fragrant deodorant appeared that I did not buy him and he stumbled and said I bought it, then he said he bought it for me. (we always use unscented.)
But then, without further conversation, I found that deodorant in the trash... so he threw it away for some reason.
I went out of town for three days... did all laundry before I left. When I came home, the three pairs of underwear had semen stains. There is no evidence of another woman, just him, (I had them DNA tested for a woman,) but he could have showered before putting them back on, if he even put them back on.
I look now, and there is never any semen on underwear when I am around... we had been very sexually active until I developed my suspicions, and now that area of our relationship suffers.
Ironically, this was not an issue that would have driven him to cheat. But we get undressed, so no need for semen stains in underwear like teenagers might have.
Ugh. This is humiliating.
He is also slower to answer my phone calls and texts.
We have GPS tracking on all our phones, and when I suspect he was with OW, his phone was left at home or turned off.
Some more subtle issues: he does not want to talk. He barely makes eye contact with me. He is not fun and funny with me the way he used to be.
Since I confronted him, and he denied, he has been much more attentive, but it feels hollow and I feel sad.
I am grieving.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/23/2013 17:47 PM

Working on our marriage is tough.. he says he will go to therapy, but he clams up when in a session and will just talk about surface issues. If we try to work on it ourselves with books/workbooks, we just fight.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/23/2013 17:53 PM

I honestly think our marriage may be beyond repair... whether I find solid evidence of cheating or not.

I did look at his personal computer, but he has several for work and most I cannot access.
On his personal computer, the history did nto show much, but when I looked at the cookie history, I found someone had looked at singles sites, match.com etc, and someone had looked at a bed and breakfast about three hours from our house.
My teens are curious about match.com, and could have looked... and the B&B? I cannot find any credit card bills that correspond... but he probably would have used cash.

Take2 posted 6/23/2013 18:00 PM

No odd numbers on the phone bill? No excessive texting? Did you try going back a year?

I think I'd stay vigilant and perhaps do the 180 (BS FAQ #11 in the Healing Library). Start going out with friends, taking care of yourself - manni's, pedi's, get your hair done, spend some money on new clothes. If he is cheating he might slip up with the extra time on his own, or tip his hand by getting jealous (because he thinks you are doing what he is doing).

Otherwise there are keyloggers, VAR's, but if the A has fizzled out already there may be nothing left to find but an confused aging man wondering what the hell he is doing...?

See what others advise - that's all I got and I'm not sure it is good advice.

canteat posted 6/23/2013 18:07 PM

I am trying to do the 180, but when you are working on the 180, what do you do when your spouse wants to have sex?? That is so tricky for me. I feel like I am not taking care of myself to move on if I am in the same bed with someone I don't trust.

i just re-read this and you seem to answer your own question. if you don't feel like you are taking care of yourself then you're not. (whether or not he is having a PA) the fact is that you have concerns and trust issues and he is doing nothing to address them. big red flag.

On the other hand, what if I am totally misreading all the signs, and I am wrong and we are just having a difficult time and I make it worse???

how can being honest about how you feel make it worse. it may not provide the outcome that you want-but in the end won't that be the right outcome?

sorry don't know how to make those lovely quote boxes or i would have.

[This message edited by canteat at 6:09 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)]

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/23/2013 18:10 PM

Thank you so much.
I'll re-commit to the 180. (my therapist gave me similar advise.)
Sleeping with someone I don't trust is tricky and I am having a hard time sorting that issue out re: the 180.
I have looked back a year at text and phone calls. (not the content, but the numbers... and nothing... but this is a digitally savvy guy... he would not want to leave a trail and he is very thoughtful and smart and would control his impulses to avoid giving himself away.)
But I will look back further.
Maybe a keylogger would be an easy option to see what comes up.

Take2 posted 6/23/2013 18:34 PM

canteat

Take the quote and paste it in (looks like you are doing that)

Then highlight the quote. Go to the left and hit "quote"

Viola!

[This message edited by Take2 at 6:35 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)]

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/24/2013 00:43 AM

I am having trouble seeing how I will get past this.
Trying to be wide eyed and accepting of the truth, whether I have solid facts or not.

Jrazz posted 6/24/2013 02:22 AM

Welcome to SI, TotallyPerplexed.

I am having trouble seeing how I will get past this.
Trying to be wide eyed and accepting of the truth, whether I have solid facts or not.

I don't think this is a matter of getting past anything at this point. There is obviously something. Even without facts, he is hiding something.

Of all the typical wayward behaviors he is displaying, the biggest nail in the coffin is that deodorant. He wouldn't have thrown it away if he believed it belonged to you. Whereas you can't prove whose it was, there's not much room for any other explanation here.

I'm so sorry. My FWH and I went to counseling while he was cheating, and he would clam up too. He would also say cryptic things like, "I'll give our marriage one more year... just so I can say I did everything to try" and other cold, robotic things.

Your WH isn't going to cop to the truth right now. Maybe you can call his bluff. Write him a letter telling him you know everything. You know whose deodorant that was, and you know where he goes when he hides from GPS. All that's left is whether he wants to offer you the complete truth in an effort to come back to reality and his marriage, or you will have your lawyer get in touch with him.

I have to say... how did you "not worry" about him cheating before you were engaged? I worry that you were just trying to write it off, like it's not as bad as being married, so you didn't have to face up to who he is and what he is capable of.

Respect, faithfulness... regard for your heart and mind... he lacks all of these things. I know it's scary to think of not being with him, but you're looking into the face of a stranger every day. You deserve so much more.

We're here to help. Sending hugs and strength.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 2:23 AM, June 24th (Monday)]

tushnurse posted 6/24/2013 10:08 AM

Jrazz has given you excellent advice.

I would like to add that if he is so tech savvy I would look for a second phone. Many cheaters get one so they can't be tracked. I would get a VAR in his vehicle too. A keylogger on the home computer. If you have kids that are looking at match etc, you need to know what they are up to as well. So you have a legit reason.
He is up to no good I guarantee that. This was the shit my H started doing, along with making me the bad guy for everything.
I would strongly recommend that you start squirrling away your own funds, and go see a lawyer to find out if you end up going down the road to D, what it will look like, and how it will effect you. This takes you out of the position of weakness, and allows you to take control.
I would even recommend hiring a PI, or having a friend help you follow him so you can find out what he is really up to. Once you have the proof you need then you can confront, and lay down the demands of R.

sodamnlost posted 6/24/2013 21:36 PM

So sorry you are here, it's the best place nobody wants to be.

My WH stopped using his actual cell and used google voice. He never used the computer. They never talked on the phone. He "only" saw her 3 times in almost 2.5 years. He would delete google voice when I was around, re-install when I wasn't. Clearly he got sloppy since I found almost a years worth of sexts on Dday.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/25/2013 11:32 AM

Thank you all.
I am in full 180 mode, and it feels fine. Sad that it feels fine, but it feels like the right thing to do.
I do not want R if he cheated while we were married, I just want the truth.
Jrazz is right, I was in denial before we were engaged and he cheated. But it was easy to deny as I saw no evidence of further cheating, until the last year or so. I shelved it, and I should have paid more attention then, but I was young and in denial. Fast forward 20+ years and I feel like a fool, but I felt like things were ideal during our engagement and marriage. Some issues of course, but I felt like we were committed and working together. Then all this...

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/25/2013 11:36 AM

Sodamnlost, how did you get through that uncertainty? Did you suspect cheating before you found the texts? I have a feeling I am in a very similar situation.
My gut tells me he only messed around on the very few occasions the kids and I were out of town.
I feel like, knowing my spouse, that he would not use any technology at all. There would be no reason. He could talk to this person at work, to make plans. She has no spouse or kids to have to work around, so it would be totally convenient on her end and I imagine this would feel freeing and convenient to my husband.
I am at the point where I wish someone who knows would just tell me. I just want to know the truth.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/25/2013 11:40 AM

I have already talked to a lawyer.
I feel terrible for my kids, and I am pissed off to be put in this position, but I am ready to go the D route.
Right now I am totally focused on the 180, (I solved the sticky point for me with sleeping together... I just go to bed after him.)
I like the 180, not because I am trying to win him back, but because it helps me to clarify my own self.
I do not want recovery if he had an affair.
I am trying to decide if he just had a crush on the OW, or if he had an emotional affair, if that would warrant a chance of recovery... but I just want the truth.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/25/2013 11:47 AM

I will get a key logger for his personal computer... that is easy.
I put it off because I feel my situation is like sodamnlost, where he is only communicating in person, and even those conversations are few and far between.

I will also get it for the kids, as that is a good point... I should know what they are up to online.

What is a VAR for his car? voice recorder? I am concerned that he is not seeing this person at all, or rarely. Will I have to listen to his radio as he drives back and forth to work every day?

I am going out of town with the kids soon. I have thought about setting a trap, but I will be too far to sip back and make a surprise visit.
I have thought about hiring a PI, that sounds terribly expensive and we live in a small town... the nearest PI is in another state and not licensed here. I did talk to the PI, and he suggested a key logger.

Can you put a key logger on a phone?
...But again, I suspect no phone and no internet use... just in person.

TotallyPerplexed posted 6/25/2013 11:56 AM

I just feel nauseated all the time.
(I know, that is a huge tip off that something is wrong...)
I just want to know what exactly is wrong. I want the truth.

sometimes posted 6/25/2013 18:22 PM

I know exactly how you feel. What you have written could have come from my experience over the last few years. I do agree with the others about the VAR and the keylogger, but like you I felt communication took place anywhere but online. I think I played my cards to early..I never got anything more than a few questionable phone conversations. Nothing I would call proof. I even hired a PI for an evening....So be diligent use the VAR and keylogger...but don't disclose anything while you are still in investigative mode. I tried not to seem crazzzzy, but know now I was putting out those I don't trust you vibes...I too was concerned about semen stains...there seemed to be a lot of self fulfillment going on, this could be why no proof of a women after you had it tested. Reading on here really will help ...I hope you find some answers.. Good Luck..