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Newest Member: Krissz (61514)

User Topic: Whom do you judge more harshly, the WS or the OP?
♂ 39236
Member # 39236
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I found out about my wife's affair, I was quick to point out the inherent stupidity in having an affair in the first place, namely that the kind of person who is willing to have an affair with a married woman is not the kind of person you want to be involved with. He's not the sort of person you can trust.

At the time, I was naive about how deep the fog could be, and she was quick to defend his character. Those of you who may have read my original story will know that this guy is a real piece of work who was two-timing my wife while she was two-timing me.

I went on about how he was obviously a scoundrel and under no circumstances did I want our daughter anywhere near this guy. Her response:

"I know that we're supposed to think that people who have affairs are terrible people, but it's not that black and white. You don't think that I'm a terrible person, since you obviously still want to be married to me."

At the time, I was still hoping to reconcile, and I had to admit, she kind of had a point. I was holding something of a double standard, labeling the OM as a low-down dirty-rotten scoundrel, while I was still trying as best I could, to believe the best about my wife, that she was still a good person who had just done a very bad thing.

As it became more and more clear that she had no intention of asking for forgiveness or making things right, my view of her began to shift, and as it stands now, I'm pretty sure that the words "backstabbing bitch," sum up the majority of my thoughts about her these days, but I'm still trying to sort out: whom do I hate more?

Obviously, my WW hurt me most directly, but I see the behavior of the OM as essentially predatory. I still see him as someone who took advantage of an emotionally vulnerable woman. It is frankly hard to see any redeeming humanity in him.

When my WW confronted him about the fact that he was seeing two women at the same time, he explained that he had simply misunderstood what their expectations were about exclusivity, figuring that the normal rules didn't apply because he was seeing a married woman.

What baffles me about this is not just that my WW didn't see through this bullshit explanation. It's that the fundamental problem with it, even if it was true, is that he didn't give a moment's thought to the fact that doing something like that and not being open about it might actually hurt the people he was involved with. This should have been my WW's moment of clarity, where she realized what it feels like to be cheated on, where she felt the cold bite of karma on her backside. But it wasn't. Somehow this aspect of it didn't occur to her, even though she actually had been hurt! She didn't bother to think about what it said about him that he did what he did without consideration for her feelings. It was as if the emotional blind spot that has kept her from having empathy for me kept her from seeing her AP for what he was. And it still does.

So this brings me back to the original question. Who is worse? Are they both monsters and psychopaths, or is one of them more blameworthy than the other?

I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much in the end, but I think that this is a thought-provoking question and I am interested to hear how other people have sorted through their feelings towards their WS vs. their feelings about the OP.

ME: BH, 32
Her: WW, 31
DD: 7
Married 6 Years.
DDay: Early May, 2013

Posts: 393 | Registered: May 2013
♀ 38241
Member # 38241
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my H had an EA and both parties knew each was married - hold both parties equally responsible for different reasons but both knew they were doing wrong any way you slice it!

Posts: 136 | Registered: Jan 2013
♀ 21538
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H. Much more so.

He lied to me He lied to her. He fed her enough line to reel her in and she was dumb enough to fall for it.

He lied to himself. He really thought if he told her he wasn't free, that he was a temporary thing and if something comes up in her life- she should go for it--that he was all honest and upfront. But in the meantime, he was happy to fuck her and give her every impression that he was falling for her. You know without actually saying it. Passive aggressive manipulation at its finest.

She was more than willing to play the game. I don't even know what she wanted beyond - constant attention. I think she liked the drama and the idea that she was important enough to break up a 20 year relationship. But I really can't hate on her anymore. She was just so dumb.... Kinda like I was.

My H chose it every step of the way. He manipulated and planned. He used my private thoughts to convince her we had problems.... Just beyond Yuck.

Him. Definitely.

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3290 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
♀ 38924
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's an easy one for me, H, for sure. OW knew nothing real about him.

Me-37 Ws-37
2 kids
Dday Nov 2012, TT for a year.
Reconciling for the third time in 4 years.

Posts: 972 | Registered: Apr 2013
♂ 35924
Member # 35924
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The OM was led to believe that I wouldn't have a problem with WW having sex with him. but WW knew without question that was NOT the case.

So I consider hers to be the greater betrayal, by far.

Me: BH
Her: WW
D-Day: 2/19/2010
Married 1981
That which does not kill me makes me more irritable

Posts: 426 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Among the Gaurwaith
♀ 35971
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


My WH knew what he was doing and chose to abuse me and our children during his A in order to justify his behavior.

The OW confessed (I read it) to having stalked him and waited for an opportunity when he was completely plastered to proposition him initially. She knew he was married with children. She was married.

She also plotted opportunities for him to attack me and was absolutely gleeful listening to the follow up reports. Sick.

They both behaved like low life. They were in cahoots on abusing me and my kids.

Me - BS
WH - old
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 1569 | Registered: Jun 2012
♀ 13333
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H. HE knew he was married. HE knew the OW was married. And although she was the predator, HE took the bait.

HE is the one that is important to me. The MOW is a non-entity in my life.

Love isn't what you say, it's what you do.

Posts: 8474 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
♀ 16652
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I saw one as being a manipulative predator and the other as being a weak loser. Which do you think is more harsh?

It's not really a fairy tale 'til the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain


Posts: 2059 | Registered: Oct 2007
♀ 35215
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She also plotted opportunities for him to attack me and was absolutely gleeful listening to the follow up reports. Sick.

They both behaved like low life. They were in cahoots on abusing me and my kids.

Wow this sounds a lot like my WH and MOW I think they both got off on abusing me She still is with her latest attempt.

I judge my WH the harshest as he is the one who either pursued it or allowed it to happen. She's a worthless loser whoreface who deserves all the bad karma that has destroyed her life.

BS/FWS (me):43 Madhatter
WS/BS:46 Serial Cheater
Together 20 years, Married 15
DD(13) DS(10)
DDay(s) Too many to count
False R 7/11/14 Same OW2
"Never seek validation from those who are unworthy."

Posts: 4086 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
♂ 35603
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something in your post struck me.

I know that we're supposed to think that people who have affairs are terrible people, but it's not that black and white. You don't think that I'm a terrible person, since you still want to be married to me.

To this I would have responded: I have zero interest in the person you've become. You are a disgrace and a traitor. I am interested in the person you were, and possibly could be again. You're like Anakin Skywalker when he went to the dark side. I don't want Darth Vader. I want my Anakin back.

That is a quote from a discussion I had with FWW during my anger phase. My wife had said something something very similar to your wife's statement.

As to the main question, whose more hated, I'd have to say in the beginning OM but followed up by FWW. An A, as well as being hurtful, cruel and immoral, is a STUPID undertaking as evidenced by what happened to your wife. I was mad at OM for pursuing her, seducing her, lying to keep it going, etc. At the time I was sympathetic to her. It wasn't until I saw her fawning over him, despite my pain and realized she'd been cheating me for YEARS out of my rightful due as her husband that my feelings changed. Fortunately for us they've changed back because I've got my 'Anakin' back. Add to that, that OM life is shit now and I feel pretty good.

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2012
♂ 31240
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The moment my W told me of her A, I focused on myself - my own pain, my own healing, and my own wants, and I urge you to do the same.

Focusing on the shit done by my W or ow took energy away from taking care of myself. It also took energy away from doing some difficult work on myself.

Your best bet for getting the best outcome for you is taking care of yourself and your needs. Ignore the ap. Ignore your WS unless she's helping you.

Be kind to yourself.

I have a tough time seeing all WSes as awful people. My W is a WS in some sense, and I love her. Even though ow affaired down in choosing her (my W) to be her ap.

fBH (me) - 66 on d-day, Married 43, together 45 on d-day, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
Most of us know only our own experience. That's not enough data to support a general rule that D, or R, is right in every sitch.

Posts: 16807 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Illinois
♀ 19024
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I blame both of them for my heartache but WH more so as it was him that left our M .. but not even leaving the M.. the horrible nasty things he said to me..

"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4874 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
♀ 31722
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I blame my H so much more!

He's the one who researched her. He's the one who found her number. He's the one who called her, out of the blue after 40 f'n years. From the records I found he's the one who initiated most of the calls. He's the one who lived the lies with me, every single day.

She's just a dumb, fat-assed twit. Who thinks WAAAAAAY too highly of herself

Me: BS
Him: WH

Posts: 1599 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
♀ 16591
Member # 16591
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I blame my XH more for my pain.

The OW(s) made no vows to me. They never committed to protect, love and cherish me.

The OWs was not personally invested in my happiness or well-being.

My XH on the other hand...was supposed to be all of those things and more. The person who'd I'd entrusted with my whole heart mercilessly threw it on the ground, stomped on it, and betrayed all that I knew to be true, honest, and real.

Yeah...I judge him more FAR.

The OWs...sad pathetic pieces of trash with no worth - to me or to themselves, obviously.

Posts: 1371 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: San Diego
♀ 20547
Member # 20547
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To begin with, FWH. Before I had found this site, I actually suggested FWH apologize to OW for using her and dumping her.

Then, after years of harassment from OW, and her being in a string of affairs since, including having another OC by a different man, (and FWH being nothing but a remorseful, ideal FWS), I judge her.

FBS/WS- me.
F(serial)WS/BS- him.

Madhatters. More Ddays than birthdays, at this point.

Posts: 2588 | Registered: Aug 2008
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ws. As much as I despise the divorced mom of 2 he chose to have an A with. I warned him about ow. I read her like a book the first time I saw her, the first time I saw subtle flirting between the 2. I said she was dangerous territory and was on a mission . I told him to please not humiliate me like his best friend did to his wife, with ow's best friend. We talked about how his best friend had a wonderful wife and kids that could be destroyed by his A with ow's friend. I told him how awful that everyone in our circle knew what his friend was doing except his wife. He agreed with what I was saying and assured me, he would never do that to us.
So I blame him. He knew, he was warned, he did it any way. Ow didn't trick him, he had his eyes wide open. Yea she's a slutty POS but he is the one who's married. Not to excuse her since she's not, but he's100% at fault.
Been with him over half my life
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank

Posts: 5738 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
♀ 38271
Member # 38271
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Judge more harshly? I would have to say OW, more!!

Only because, from the moment she became my "friend" they were already have an EA, which then progressed to PA - after we had become better "friends"! She ate at my table, she saw us interact as a loving couple, saw us fight, saw us as parents to our kids. And most importantly, KNEW how much I loved my husband.

None of that matter to her. She intentionally came into my home knowing that they probably just had sex at work. I think that takes a special kind of SKANK to be able to do that - for 3 years at least!

Of course, he ALLOWED her Skankiness to enter my home. But I still judge her more..

~~When people show you who they are believe them ~~ Maya Angelou

Me -BS (49)

DS 21, DD 17
Divorced 8/2015

Posts: 869 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: SE PA
♂ 32604
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW.

The OM's are irrelevant. They could have been anybody. They didn't know me. I could care less about them. She could have found a total stranger to screw her.

WW knew I was the father of her 2 sons. That while she was out having sex on a business trip, I was putting them to bed. Taking them to the doctor. She had made vows and professed to love me. All a lie.

The OM's? Who fracken cares.

For her, watching our two sons grow will be pain. She and I will try to raise them as men of honor, substance and strength. And she will feel like a hypocrit.

BH (me), WW (her), 2 boys

"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
♀ 38405
Member # 38405
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex. OW didn't know about me or the pending nuptials. He did and he chose not to tell her.

I blame him more as he made the choice to break up our family. He really didn't think about what he was doing, just saw someone he wanted to fill his void and didn't care about the massive destruction afterward.

Unfortunately he is the one who will end up hurting the most. He broke up his family, sees his son once a month after living with him daily, is paying child support, living way beyond his means, has over 150K in debt and even if he is still with OW, she is 10 years younger than him and in medical school. She is leaving the area once she starts her residency and he will be alone again unless he finds another medical student or law student. (He is only attracted to women who he can brag about.)

[This message edited by movingforward13 at 8:20 PM, June 24th (Monday)]

Once a cheater, always a cheater happens when your cheater doesn't have remorse.
Regret is not remorse- know the difference!

Posts: 680 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: DC
♀ 39588
Member # 39588
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


She knew he was married and had kids but decided at some point she wanted him to herself and would stop at nothing. ( yes, in a months time).

Me (BS): 36
Him aka narcissistic psychopath (WS): 36
Married 17 years 6 kids ages 16-7
DDay #1 (EA) July '08
DDay #2 (EA/ONS- different OW) May 15, 2013

Finally this is R 8/14/13

Filed for divorce 5/8/15

Posts: 326 | Registered: Jun 2013
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