My question is, how do you set those boundaries, and how do you maintain them? How do you develop those good habits
What have you done to learn what healthy boundaries are?
Deleting accounts and allowing BS to view accounts is really just compliance.
All these words mean nothing if I can’t act on them….truly act on them, and that’s the reason for my ask for advice.
Why not? If you are able to say/know what's right, what do you use for a reason for choosing another course of action? It is a choice after all.
On the friend side, since I do currently have a friend that isn't a friend of the marriage. My wife and I have discussed and agreed that I need to cease communication with him. At first, I was hesitant, as he was of few friends I had. But as we talked about it, and as I continued to think about it, I realized in the long run, he wasn't that great of a friend, and not worth losing my family over. We are going to communicate that to him, but there is a timing issue (both me and my wife agree on that). We need friends of the marriage, and I do believe that will help in setting healthy boundaries (we have much to work on before that, but it is something we've talked about).
Many of the mistakes I've made were under the influence of alcohol. As such, we've set up a boundary there (no drinking or very limited drinking at family gatherings), and rarely drink outside of that. I have been able to handle that quite easily with perhaps 3-4 beers total since DDay two months ago.
It's sounding more and more like this new job will happen, and prior to starting, I want to ensure that I have strong boundaries there as well. Basically, there are boundaries between the families, friends, and work.
I had actually offered that up, but my wife doesn't want any of her information. SO what I do is when I get the message, I let my wife know who she sent it to, what it was about, and what my response was. I will also be letting her look at my email when I get home.
I spent so much of my life lying to people to make them feel better, eevn knowing that the lie was the wrong choice, I'd still do it. That learned habit, I want to break it...kill it. That crap worked in the past....but it cannot be in my future, cause it does absolutely no good.
Putting walls up around our relationship and windows up between you and I. Or you'll just as easily fall into a new affair at a new job.
Set outlook up to forward me the mails.
you can set up a google email for free in about 5 minutes. you send the NC letter through that, then delete the web mail account.
I agree with the poster who said pretty much this is about what you are CHOOSING to do.
You either do it or you don't. your choice.
stop waffling around.
stop waffling around."
"On the friend side, since I do currently have a friend that isn't a friend of the marriage. My wife and I have discussed and agreed that I need to cease communication with him. At first, I was hesitant, as he was of few friends I had. But as we talked about it, and as I continued to think about it, I realized in the long run, he wasn't that great of a friend, and not worth losing my family over."
Your decision to break off with this friend wasn't based on your wife's request or on the knowledge that he wasn't a friend of the family.
Your resisted those reasons at first because you put yourself before your wife and your family. You thought about your loss of this friendship and how it would affect YOU and you resisted. Until you realized that for you the impact would not be so bad as he was not really that great of a friend and not worth losing your family over. Because he wasn't that great of a friend. So...your thinking is that if he was that great of a friend he would be worth losing the family over? To me this is all ME FIRST thinking and perhaps that is the issue. Can you not put yourself first in your thinking, your actions, your thought? Can you step outside of YOU and make some decision based on the ones you love even if they aren't great for you? Can you put yourself second, be selfless ever?
And when you say you spent so much of your life lying to people to make them feel better....was that really so that they would like you and you could feel good and not about them?
He wants everyone to like him, even if it's for the wrong reasons, and he lies to accomplish that.
I have to say, when I read your post almost everything about it reminds me of my FWH. The way he kept slipping, as well as his confusion at his own behavior seems to resonate here.
If the two of you are indeed as similar as you sound, I can give you some advice on how to proceed.
The A’s were the biggest mistake I have EVER made in my life
Try to rephrase this in your mind. "The A's were the worst CHOICES I have ever made in my life." Part of the trick to having a new outlook is systematically examining and reversing old behaviors. Part of what may have allowed you to cheat in the first place was that you gave yourself micro-absolutions to do little things until they became bigger and bigger and you had to keep re-writing reality to fit your indulgences. This way you could look at is as if you got swept up in something out of your control, which is not true. You always have control. You have control over everything you say and everything you do. You are in control of every email you write, and every subtle nuance therein.
You are making choices every time you communicate with your BW.
This line of thinking was hard for my FWH to adopt at first, not because it was complicated but because of the heavy responsibility of ownership for his actions. Fortunately for both of us he works at it as much as he can, and the results are that he is more accountable, more MATURE than he has ever been in his life.
He still kneejerk-fibs about stupid little things, "Did you break that?" "No!" "I saw you break that" "Well yeah, it FELL out of my hands but I didn't mean to break it...." and that is a big struggle for us today. In his mind those are small things that he doesn't want to "get in trouble" for. Fortunately though, when it comes to things regarding our family or relationship, he has totally programmed himself to take ownership. If there's a slip-up with boundaries at work, he owns it and we talk about it. When it comes to our daughter, he will tell me the truth about something even if he thinks it will upset me. In turn, I try to remain even keel and grateful when he comes to me with distressing news.
That's how it works for us.
Like I told him last night, "I get more nervous about good news from you than bad news. Bad news at least means you're being honest."
Build up that foundation of trust with good choices and complete truths. Everything else will rest comfortably upon that good foundation.
[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:50 AM, June 28th (Friday)]
Your decision to break off with this friend wasn't based on your wife's request or on the knowledge that he wasn't a friend of the family.Your resisted those reasons at first because you put yourself before your wife and your family. You thought about your loss of this friendship and how it would affect YOU and you resisted. Until you realized that for you the impact would not be so bad as he was not really that great of a friend and not worth losing your family over. Because he wasn't that great of a friend. So...your thinking is that if he was that great of a friend he would be worth losing the family over? To me this is all ME FIRST thinking and perhaps that is the issue. Can you not put yourself first in your thinking, your actions, your thought? Can you step outside of YOU and make some decision based on the ones you love even if they aren't great for you? Can you put yourself second, be selfless ever?
Very helpful words for me to read. Very.
The NC was already sent, so it's not so mucha concern anymore. Plus, I don't want any other email accounts existing, even for a moment.
The "putting family/wife before me" was something I had posted in my OP. I absolutely should have worded that post you replied to in a way that reenforced the OP. I do absolutely see what you are saying though. For the longest time, he was my best friend as well, so I think that's what made it harder initially.
Aside from the post I made earlier, not much. That's why I am asking for advice on what other people have done. Some of them seem to be very common sense, but reading what others have done is extremely beneficial. The boundaries w/ other women is a big one, obviously. So, I ask, what have others put into place in regards to that issue (I am sure that is the biggest for all on this board).
Thank you for the comparison...definitely makes sense, everything you posted. You are right about using the word choice (I haev assumed that decision = choice, but choice does have more of an "ownership" connotation to it). If I could ask, what did your husband do in the way of boundaries? How did you two work together to develop them?
but maybe i can give you insight about what your wife is thinking.
a problem i have is that i just don't understand the difficulties. i don't understand why you can't stop lying. just stop.
it doesn't compute for me. Your wife may see things this way also. Either you stop lying or you don't.
There is no "try."
Why would you keep lying to me when you know what's at stake?
Why do you keep hurting me?
He's read my posts on here, and i've posted about this particular OW before. We even talked about her in MC, but he still lied to me about her.
He brings up the other stuff he's done to try to 'fix' things, but i tell him that none of that matters if he can't be honest with me. Not lying anymore is the most important step, and the first step he must take before any of those other things will matter.
He never comes clean of his own volition, either. I found emails in his deleted folder, they were all between him and the OW. It wasn't until i found it that he admitted that he lied, and then he admitted a few other lies as well.
He never comes clean, he just admits to what i find. I hate it,
People generally are able to do what they want to do.
If you can't do it, what is holding you back? How do you feel when you think of informing your BW of the emails? Ashamed? Frightened? Indignant? There must be some feeling associated with it, otherwise your response would be, "ugh. I wish OW wouldn't send emails like this. Better let twodoves know" and then just do it.
He never comes clean, he just admits to what i find. I hate it,
Very very very concerning. This happened to me on December and I wish I would have kicked him out. Good luck.
OP- if you don't change, you will lose your family....
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
“Relax, everything’s out of control” – Adi Da Samraj
My WH also continued email/text contact with OW after DDay and lied about it. When I found an email I was devastated he would choose to lie every time I asked if there was any contact. I did finally get access to all of his email accounts and his phone but I am not stupid he could obtain another email account or get a prepaid phone and the A could continue. Monitoring does not give me more assurance WH is not cheating. What would give me assurance is his doing the work to repair the damage and stopping the behavior that led up to the A.
One of the big things was me siding with family over situations
We definitely had this happening. This is where I needed to feel I was just as important to him as his family and my feeling did matter more. I realize this takes time because it is family.
Now, I limit my conversations with them to be more general in nature, and not about what my wife and I are going through.
This is good.
On the friend side, since I do currently have a friend that isn't a friend of the marriage.
Again, BS needs to feel more important than friends. This is something I have asked of my WH - we need friends of our marriage and not those who bash our spouses. Good friends will listen and be supportive. If you want to R and rebuild trust, the friends who are not friends of your marriage need to go.
If you want your BS to believe you want to change and you want to rebuild, you need to show it by your actions.
Gotta love the life that we livin'