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I have been thinking about WH behavior pre A and questioning if these are signs of someone who might not be able to change enough for me to feel it is worth to take the risk to reconcile.

I remember a conversation many years ago about consequences of actions. WH wanted to do something and I was trying to give my viewpoints and going through the consequences if he did something. WH said there shouldn't be consequences of actions. I said there is always some consequence to everything we do. I realize he does this when he is trying to get his way and he would eventually do what he wanted. I believe he did believe there shouldn't be consequences.

Has anyone else had consequences of actions discussion with their partners? Do you think this is one of many personality traits that allows someone to justify having an A?

doesn't matter if there SHOULD be consequences for actions or not. fact is, there are, whether negative or positive, there's always a consequence. we normally don't get to choose the consequences of our actions, and sometimes they're not fair in comparison to the action, good or bad. we can only try to think ahead and determine if the action is worth what consequences might happen.

it is justifying thinking, or wishful thinking at the least. ignoring or not acknowledging that there are consequences of ones actions is not healthy, for anyone.

mr unfound knew the consequences of his actions, he purposfully/subconsiously (long story) chose to compartmentalize them and ignore them, cause, really, who can have a fun lurvin A with the thought that they could lose everything they have?

I'm frankly reluctant to use that term with my WS. I know exactly where the conversation will spiral down to.

He will get defensive. Accuse me of judging him or trying to parent him. Then he will ask me if I realized my actions have consequences too; that we were in a low point in our relationship and "what did you think I would do?' Not for me.

This conversation is for people in R. Otherwise it is just a platform for blame shifting.

For me, I'm going to let it be. It's not going to make me feel better. And I'm trying stop looking to him to make me feel better.

On the other hand, I discussed this in IC, and was told that when he gets defensive I should keep going and "hit him with what the consequences of his actions are". And that his defences are protecting a big sea of guilt. He is protecting access to that pain.

Not sure how it will all play out.

For this very reason, I am completely clear with my children that there are consequences to everything they do. I might have had to suffer through the heartbreak of an affair, but I am doing my best to make sure my children don't inflict this kind of pain on anyone else. I'll have to update in 40 years and let you know how it worked out.

ETA: I do recall several times that my H would say "I accept this or that because it is the consequence of what I've done". So even though we didn't discuss it, he is completely understanding about consequences and how they happen no matter what.

[This message edited by doesitgetbetter at 2:16 PM, June 28th (Friday)]

had this conversation last week with H. He wonders why I will still ask questions on occasion about what he did and why I ask some of the same things over and over...I said, " Well, this is a consequence of a choice you made. If you had slept with someone years and years ago and created a child( he didn't do this to me, he had an EA NOT a PA- was just trying to give an a big example for it to make sense to him )..you may never talk to the mother , the child or think about it ever again - BUT there was a consequence to that long ago choice you would have made and just because you want to never think of it again, doesn't make it not have happened. So deal with the consequence of the action you chose and stop getting angry or frustrated,because I had absolutely no choice in the matter and this is the fall out. Now you have to hear the questions, the ponderings, see the random anger from triggers, have me look at your personal emails, check your phone, etc etc etc because of a choice you didn't think thru before you chose" Granted , it gets better and easier to deal with most aspects but ...it wont ever go away

I realize I am focusing on the past thought/behavior patterns. I feel WH is just placating me. Even though he has changed most of his behavior he doesn't tell me what he realized about himself. I feel if he can't tell me why he thought it was ok to lie and cheat on me then how can I believe the changes he says he is committed to will last. He says he wants to work on this. I caught him a lie a few weeks ago. Something that was so stupid yet he choose to lie. This is the behavior I told him needs to stop. This behavior goes back to his childhood and he needs to fix it or we will not have a marriage. We are trying to R but why is it taking so long for me feel like we are really reconciled and in a happy better marriage. Why is it so hard to work on the FOO issues that keep us from having happy relationships? I know I am committed to working on them. I feel WH is reluctant to face his FOO issues. I know I can't make him. I know it is risk. I know I need to eventually make a decision.

My WH said, in IC, there were no consequences for his actions so why would he change his behavior. He was talking about lying. The only consequences he faces are those of a wife who falls apart more with the discovery of each lie. I really need to find something more effective.

This is the thing that drives my FWS bat-shit crazy, when I bring up consequenses. If something happens, and I say, "Well, that was BA(before affair) and this is now. You know there are consequenses, he just throws a fit. Like I am being a hard ass or something. But it is the truth. Nothing will ever be quite the same. The affair happened and there are consequenses, ie., triggers, lack of trust, etc.

It just kills me that they think that there will not be permanent consequenses.