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Honestly, I'm not sure where to even start. I think this is only my 4th post on here and it seems I can't even bring all my crazy thoughts together in one, sensible, post so I've simply avoided it. Long story short, WH majorly triggered me recently and it has caused another "freak out" episode for me. First incident was 03/17/08 (my son's 1 year birthday and party) The last incident was almost a year ago and STILL there has been no real attempt at true R. So during this last trigger rant I'm coming down hard on how I don't understand how reconciling with me isn't important to him. Pretty much that I can't believe I am STILL waiting after all this time. He e-mailed me back this response:

"I admit that I screwed up by posting inappropriate stuff on the b.b. forum, that my mind shouldn't be in those places with a wife at home whom I treated like crap for so many years.

I admit I haven't done enough to win your trust back. I want to keep figuring out how to gain your trust and help you to realize that I'm not hiding anything else.

I have a hard time navigating these things when I feel overwhelmed, as I'm sure you do too. When we argue, the thought keeps going through my head, "I'm going to lose my wife and kids and my kids are going to grow up without me around," and my mind goes into panic mode. I picture the time I remember hugging my dad's leg when he came to pick me up, then I picture it is Jonas and me, and I feel like dying.

I've tried to research some of this from work, and like I said, some of it is blocked. I never gathered that there was one template to follow to win your trust back.

I'll live as honest and moral as possible - no more sex jokes or talking about sex. I'll go to church with you. I'll take you out more often. I gave you my passwords.

I WILL do whatever it takes if you still have any love for me. Because, if I lose you and if I lose the kids, I'll have ruined everything in my life that was worth anything (and in fact worth everything) to me. What else is there to live for? The next girl to come along? I don't want that.

Part of me feels like you've basically told me to get lost enough times, and that I just need to move out and be done with it. But then you say you don't want the "D word", and I don't know what to think.

I do love you. I do I do I do."

I do hear some remorse but I also hear excuses. I'm currently pregnant with #5 and I know my hormones are all out of whack so maybe I shouldn't be making any decisions about anything right now, but I swear I'm STILL hearing excuses for why he can't do this or why he can't do that.

Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

First things first - (((((Phoenix)))))

Your thoughts are not crazy. Learning of your spouse's infidelity is a traumatic event. If that trauma isn't addressed and processed, it will keep hurting you to the core.

He outlines a couple of things in his message that he will do - going to church with you, taking you out more often, and giving you his passwords. Those actions are a good start if they are actions that you want or need.

What else do you need from him? Have you given that any thought? Have the two of you discussed what you need?

Are you in counseling, honey? I think that may be a good place to start if you aren't already going.

Hang in there. Keep breathing. And focus on self-care. Your baby needs you to be healthy and strong.

Thank you, nowiknow23.
We started MC about a month after the 2nd incident but stopped when school let out. I recently scheduled another session for 3 weeks from now. Pretty much that whole time he was focused on how things I was doing affected him negatively and how stressed he generally is and how his past has haunted him. I spent most of the sessions begging him to begin a true R and making the counselor aware of how he truly behaved outside of the counseling sessions. Ever since DDay #1 he has acknowledged that what he did was wrong, but never really took responsibility for it. He has always made excuses, significantly blamed me, blamed alcohol, etc, made small efforts here and there all while still berating and belittling me. He is such a critical and judgmental person and generally makes me feel like a lesser person on an almost daily basis. Pretty much anything related to me is stupid.

I have spent many hours crying, begging, pleading, (kind of) threatening to kick him out just so he would "get it" somehow. Those times (like now) he will always tell me how sorry he his, promise not to drink anymore or do any other of his indiscretions, promise to make everything right, etc, etc. He'll tell me how much he loves me and how he really doesn't want to lose me, etc. Honestly, I'm getting tired of having to freak out on him everytime he starts to going back to his old ways. I'M FREAKING READY FOR THINGS TO MOVE FORWARD AND STAY MOVING FORWARD!!!!!!

I'm so tired of feeling like my hurt is meaningless and that I should be just fine with his standard of how he's doing things. This last time I told him that if he devoted as much time and effort to researching how to repair my broken heart as he does on the body building forum and reading a CRAP TON of other books, we could totally be well on our way to a brighter future. But, instead, we're still stuck. And it ain't for my lack of patience and trying to get him on board.

His response suggests there is hope, but only if actions follow his words. Plus, as NIK asked, are these actions which you need? What else do you want? And yeah, the counseling question - yes? no? not ready?

ETA: You posted while I was typing. So it sounds like you've spent too much time focused on him, listening to him, worrying about him, and not enough focus on you. You shouldn't have to win him back, it should be the other way around.

Talk is cheap. It's practically meaningless after infidelity. I'd like to suggest you stop making suggestions & requests. Focus on yourself, detach emotionally (if only temporarily), and observe how he reacts. What does he do for you? What does he do for the marriage? What hard steps does he take all on his own? The answers will be interesting!

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 10:06 PM, July 5th (Friday)]

Phoenix - marriage counseling with someone who isn't truly remorseful is soul suicide. When I asked about counseling, I really was suggesting individual counseling for you. As Nature_Girl said, the focus has been too much on him so far. Focus on you. Focus on your kids. That's all you need to worry about right now. He'll either figure things out or he won't - either way, you need to be strong and healthy, and you are the only person who can make sure you get there. Hugs honey. (((((Phoenix)))))

What if he never "gets it"?

A year is a long time for no real attempt at R.

Actions speak louder than words. Never say "I'm going to do X." Just do X. Try stopping at "I don't like that" instead of "I don't like that or else"

What would shock the hell out of him? That's what you need to do.

Thanks ladies. I really appreciate your input. After this last major trigger, I found SI and boy oh boy did it motivate me to "lay into him" once again. I've actually printed out a couple things from the Healing Library to have him read. I have been demanding his e-mail password for a loooong time and he has only just now given it to me. It seems his (final) willingness to give that to me coupled with him ordering the book "Getting Past The Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal and Move On - Together or Apart" are new and different enough to give me a little hope this time around that he may actually do it "right". However, when I read a few negative reviews about this particular book, some BSs said that it really didn't do enough to hold the WSs completely accountable for what they did. That it focuses a lot what both the BS and WS did/can do to make the marriage better. Sighhh.....I don't know. I guess I will have to read it for myself to see what it's about. I suggested 2 books WIDELY mentioned on here, but he said this one got better reviews, and he thought it would be a better book for him. Pffft.

Sooooo....here goes hoping for the beginning of a true R. This man has done and said SOOO many crazier than crazy things to me that I fear it will take a lot longer than he will like it to to regain my trust and respect. I did get into his e-mail account today and he told one of his long distance buddies how he has done so many horrible things to me in the past and how I've stood by him with "angelic persistance". I'm hoping that is the honest truth and he's not saying that just because he knows I "might" read it.

I'm kinda in a funky place tonight. Can't get a lot of bad memories out of my head. Girls, if you knew the full history of my story - I think you'd need IC just to get over it.