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Jennifer99 posted 7/7/2013 10:05 AM

Please refer to this thread:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=500948

I had come to the conclusion that yes, I was past 180 and all it was making me do was be uncomfortable with my lack of making a decision. I concluded that I wasn't even fearful of the future for me whichever way things fell but fearful for my son. I planned on looking for an apartment and moving out, going to IC Tuesday and talking about the guilt I felt for MY part (not me to blame) in "ruining" my son's family future. Then I was going to file for D most likely. We'd already been touching on my fear of just walking away. I was going to make sure it was the main topic this week.

WH acted like we had plans to to car shopping and running around. I said "no" and went to my room to sit with the laptop and look for apartments closer to work. He kept finding reasons to come in my room even cleaning the filter on the window a/c. I finally said "was there something you wanted, why do you keep coming in here".

He laid down on the bed and stared at the ceiling for a long time. I thought he was going to ask me for a divorce and want to start the conversation about who would go where and what about our son.

He said "this is really hard and I don't know where to start". I told him "just start", its not any harder than doing nothing. There isn't anything I can't handle anymore.

He started with "after our failed 'talk' yesterday I didn't want to talk, I felt like there was no point because you and I are so different and I feel like no matter what I say you make me wrong." *crickets from me*

He went on to talk about how he knows I try to be strong and try to be forgiving but regardless of how I am acting he knows deep down I must be having incredible pain, doubt, hurt, etc. He said that it is killing him, he has so much guilt for making me feel 2nd best when I could never be that. He said he feels like he broke everything so bad he doesn't know how to fix it and he should just let me go to be happy. He said he feels like a total failure. He said he feels like he killed the one truly good thing in his life.

This from a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, its always everyone else. Hmmm. But he also knows how to be super charming to get out of being in hot water - but I wasn't seeing charming. I was seeing beat.

I still said nothing.

He said I know when I say all that it sounds like it is all about me, but I don't know how else to say things. He said I don't know how to tell you without making excuses for me or how to tell you without sounding like I am trying to butter you up. He said he didn't know how to show me that this was about me and not him so he's never said anything.

He said a couple months ago he was plagued with popups that had the OW picture in them from mylife. He showed me he was saving the pop ups as screen shots so they would be dated. I said I knew that. He said he wanted them to stop as much as he wanted ME to stop bringing her up because it hurt, not because he missed her but because he felt stupid and foolish and loser about the whole thing and he wanted it to stop. He said he hasn't had any new popups for a couple weeks. He thought he could finally move on.

BUT he said, I could move on, I went up there by her work thinking she was searching for me on mylife and if she wanted to talk there I was and she just drove on by with her nose in the air. He said when that happened and he felt HAPPY that she did he felt like he was free. But now he turned to thinking about how impossible it would be to fix things with me and he couldn't take it anymore.

He said he started to research and read and try and see what he might do to fix things. He said ultimately, looking at all the different advice, it looks like really what I should do is ask YOU what can I do.

He said I was so upset on the 4th he feared I would say "go away" so he didn't want to talk. He didn't know how to get all this out without me interrupting and starting a fight about some comment he made that wasn't well thought out.

He told me he loved me, more than anything/anyone. He told me he wanted to get back to being a team. He said "But I would also understand if you want to say f' that, I would deserve it".

He said he spends a lot of time thinking about what I do wrong and shifting the blame to me. He said that is easier than thinking about what he needs to fix without knowing what to do about it.

He asked me what I needed and wanted.

I told him I had some ideas but that I didn't think he would like them and I couldn't promise they were "it" as I was just starting to process all this for myself after a year of being his "friend" and neglecting myself.

I told him he could start with total transparency and honesty. He gave me a timeline. He gave me a list of places he avoided and why. He gave me the makes and models and colors of her vehicles. He told me I could probably go her store to buy a new shower curtain we need and just lurk around and see her if I wanted. He also said he wouldn't care if I messaged her on facebook (boy was he mad I didn't tell him I found her on facebook though - which prompted a me being transparent convo too). He tried his very best to answer every single question, some of which were doozies and took a bit of time.

There was one question I asked "how could you put your feelings or this woman before ME and your son - 20 years of us..."

He asked that he be able to answer that later if I could be patient. I was kind of about why couldn't he just answer it. We took a break, watched a movie.

I was going to bed and he said "where are we, are you going to leave?" I said I didn't know. He asked if it was because he couldn't answer that question yet. I said "it hurts but no". He said he is afraid anything he tells me right now would be excuses and not the real truth because he has not tried to look too deeply into how much he sucks because it hurts so he's afraid the "now answer" wouldn't be the right answer and could I be patient or did I want the now answer.

I said I'd try to be patient.

He said "maybe I need to go see a counselor too?"

For HIM to suggest it and me not insist on it was huge. I also told him to read about NPD.

Apparently he read a lot about NPD overnight

He said "thats you!" I said hahahaha NO thats YOU! He said "we're a pretty awful pair aren't we?" He says "how did you work on this stuff - you don't do this, this, or this anymore" I said I dunno, I just saw that what I was doing was yuck to friends and DS so I wanted to be different and had to learn to check myself. He said "I see me in there but I don't have THAT many do I?" So we went through the list. I gave him the ones I thought he had, he denied about half but said he could see how I thought that because he puts up a good front. He said "well maybe that would be where I need to start in IC?" I said that would be up to you and IC.

He got down on his knees and said "please stay, please don't go, give me 6 months to try and get better, if you think I'm not doing better then I'll understand".

I can only imagine what it took for him to do that. The man doesn't do humility, he is intensely proud, and never asks anyone for anything.

So...I told him ok, he could have until the new year.

But he understands I have to see some progress in him by then to decide whether or not to R (thanks to sisoon for making me look at it that way) and now "hey, NOT we ARE in R". He understands I'm not doing "limbo" anymore.

After we take a walk with ds this morning and after I get some school work done, he wants me to tell him some more about how he can help me.

I don't know if I have anything else. It'll be something to think about while walking.

I can't say I'm ecstatically happy, I'm leary that I am being suckered, but I figured after 20 years, 6 more months while I'm busy with grad school and trying to get out of my HELL of a job...he can have that as long as it is for him to reflect and make an effort instead of dwelling in misery and depression and HE WANTS to get better.

So thanks SI for giving me the confidence to know I can handle this, giving me the shared experiences of all so I can be watchful and knowledgable in the future, and giving me a voice to share my fears and questions and get some 2x4s.

One final thanks - to my son, as we're driving to his sports yesterday and his dad disappears into the smoke shop:

"Mom. Don't be mad. I was sneaking and heard you and dad talking. And I just have to tell you, I wouldn't blame you if you divorced. I love you both, I know you both love me, I will always be ok with you both for my parents even if you aren't together and you made me this way. Just be happy, whatever you want for you to be happy."

I jumped out of the car, dove into the backseat, started bawling like I haven't since he was born and held him so tight. His eyes were shining and he was smiling the most peaceful, buddha smile and his dad came out like "OMG is everyone ok" My son says "yeah, mom just needed some love, lets go!"

I have truly been blessed with the best boy in the world, who at 10yo has more gifts to give than any adult I know.

I go forward with hope, peace, and the realization that no matter what, its all good if I choose to view it that way and my feelings and dignity matter just as much as H's or DS's.

Later my boy says "you really needed that didn't you? you feel better without all that weight on you?" I said "of course, he says, I can tell, its like you are floating now."

[This message edited by Jennifer99 at 10:10 AM, July 7th (Sunday)]

Skan posted 7/7/2013 13:29 PM

Oh man, I'm tearing up for you. AND for your very special little boy. You're right. You can give it whatever amount of time YOU want to give to see if your marriage is repairable. You know that you'll be OK, don't you, if you have to leave? You really will. So use that knowledge to give yourself wings and give yourself permission to feel free to stay, watching for actions, not words, until YOU make your decision. (((hugs)))

realitybites posted 7/7/2013 13:42 PM

Good for you in standing up for yourself. Whatever happens that had to have made you feel good.

Transparency remember is having all the passwords to his emails and cell phone. And do be careful of being "hoovered" back in. Sadly his story sounds very weird and not quite right....but its up to you as to what you want to do.

[This message edited by realitybites at 1:42 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

nowiknow23 posted 7/7/2013 14:37 PM

Keep watching actions, Jennifer. The actions will be the true tell.

And your DS? Is amazing.

solus sto posted 7/7/2013 14:44 PM

What a fine boy you have.

My son told me much the same. It made a huge difference.

kansas1968 posted 7/7/2013 14:53 PM

What a beautiful post. What a beautiful son you are blessed with. He is truly an "old soul" to have that level of maturity and wisdom at ten years old.
Sounds like some good results of a hard 180. No matter what happens I know you (and your son) will be fine.

Blobette posted 7/7/2013 15:42 PM

Wow. Let's hope he follows through. And your DS? What a champ! I geared up reading that, too.

Getting to Happy posted 7/7/2013 16:33 PM

Put me in the tearing up camp.

Hug that little man of yours. What a guy!

Remember Trickle Truth is a killer of R. It will take you all the way back to DD or worse. Please warn him and take heed yourself. Finding a hidden or forgotten piece of affair evidence once you have started to trust him will bring you to your knees.

It is good to mutually come to the agreement to work on your healing from his infidelity. That's right, you first. IF there were other factors in the marriage that need work, they will begin to shake out naturally as you two work as a team heading for the future.

I wish you two well as you begin your quest for answers, healing this breech in the fabric of your lives. Buckle up, 'cuz its a bumpy ride!

Jennifer99 posted 7/7/2013 17:57 PM

I think he understands now how TT is a killer. He FEELS it and I didn't know it. Most of our conversations yesterday were really awful and hurt very much and I could tell he was totally worn out. He'd often start with "why do you want to hear this..." and I reminded him it wasn't for him to decide. There were some things I had point blank asked him about in the last year and he denied that he now told me I was right about. I'm NOT crazy!

He did agree to total transparency. Neither of us have cell phones. He gave me his email password. He doesn't know it but I also installed a keylogger. He decided no more night hikes or early a.m. workouts (their old work time together). His 2 hobbies - well they are going to be family time now. He said he always liked when we came to watch his games.

There was a lot more he said. There was a lot more I asked for. We'll see if he can make it. I have no expectations. It will be what it will be.

Regardless, *I* will be ok and my son will be better than the both of us.

180 has taught me how to let go of regret, self-blame for situations out of my control, paying more attention to my gut and feelings and actions instead of words. 180 taught me that I am great the way I am and anything I don't like I change for me. I've also learned that I don't have to skip saying what I think but maybe I could work on HOW I say it. Even though I was given a free pass yesterday for a lot of crying, him holding me while I beat on him with my fists and called him names, and every ugly, raw, buried emotion of the last year all came out, even more than it has at IC...I would like to move on without the bile, without the nasty, and say what I have to say in a peaceful way which much more matches ME than all this anger and hate. WH (I should change that to FWH someday maybe) said knowing me we'll probably have more of these days as things seem to go in cycles with me and he'll be happy to go back over anything I want and he'll be happy to hold me while I beat on him but that he feels like everytime the A and OW get brought up "we" have to start all over again so he'd like to do whatever he can to get it all out. I just didn't even know what all to ask and he said that is ok he tried to remember himself so I didn't have to ask.

I also feel really good about being able to truly forgive him for the past while still making a point that it is his every day little choices from now on that will tell and matter and now that I know I will be ok no matter what I plan on not ever settling.

He couldn't believe I ever doubted any of that, said he wouldn't have thought it of me. He's been waiting for me to finish school and put all his stuff on the curb and trying to show me he has/had value.

We won't be doing MC I don't think until I know he hasn't done a snowjob on his IC.

When summer is over and our son goes back to school he wants to find a daylight job so he can get back to work but not evenings or overnights so we won't be never seeing each other and totally out of sync like we were for the last 7 years.

We also hashed out his accusation of me and another man. He kept saying "then why won't he talk to me anymore, why won't he even look me in the eye"? I asked him if he ever thought maybe he knows OW or maybe he's heard some gossip and he thinks you're a total asshole cuz he's still "waving hi" friendly to me but nothing else. Then we ran into this faux OM a little bit later at a kid event and I grabbed H's hand, kissed his cheek and stayed with him while we were there. When we left, I told him that is how you fight the OP-worries, show your togetherness, show "us" more respect than everyone else. He really liked that and said he hopes he never forgets to make me feel THAT at ease.

So we shall see. But I'm not afraid anymore.

Jospehine85 posted 7/7/2013 18:41 PM

(((Jennifer99))) Sounds like maybe he had an epiphany!

He can't change completely overnight. Watch for the trajectory to be a slow improvement. It will be helpful for you to point out to him when he is gaslighting, blameshifting,etc. Call his attention to it right when he does it and he will get better at catching himself.

blakesteele posted 7/7/2013 18:47 PM

Sisson is wise. Loved this post!!! Your son is amazing.

God be with all of you.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:57 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]