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Newest Member: wileyconfused (46027)

User Topic: I think I made a mistake...
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I belong in this forum now... Sadly.

Long story short- went to our home yesterday to talk things out. Talked for 2 hours with my WH about what were going to do. I cried, he cried. And now I'm back, confused just as I started.

We talked about filing for D. We talked calmly about how to do it, the process etc. We also talked about R, but he keeps saying "I've put you through so much already, I don't know If I can be a good husband to you after what I did"

After a couple of hours we decided to not do anything but research D and also commit to my version of "trying" I made the mistake of hysterically bonding to him... We slept in the same bed, we held each other all night. It felt so good to be in a place like that with him. After our talk, things were great! We played in the pool with our dog, grilled and enjoyed each others company. We laughed, we joked, it was like even with the deep pain of his A, I could see myself forgiving him. He says he's maintained no contact since she moved away. He went to go check one of my tires and I went with him and in the middle of the car ride he got teary eyed. I asked him what is wrong and he said "how can we be so normal and happy but still discuss getting a D?"

I don't know. It's a good question.

This man, is my best friend. He is my partner, the one I want to father my children. But I have to keep in mind the true possibility of D. He said he is going to look into the paperwork and what we would need to do to start the process... But not do anything right away.

We love each other. We care for each other. We both know we would never close the door fully on each other. I feel like he was able to see that we are still good together, but we have issues we need to work on. I don't know if I should feel good about where we are, or hopeful, sad?

My mistake was probably the hysterical bonding. I asked him to try for us. I cried in front of him. All bad, anti 180 behavior. Now I'm just kind of lost on what to do now. It's only been 1.5 months since DDay.. Am I rushing the process? Am I doing something wrong? Ack! I need your help now! I've decided no frequent texts, no calls need to be initiated right now... I need to get back on track with the 180.

Advice? Outside perspective? 2x4?

Thanks!

-RW


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
soveryweary
♀ 32265
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have any advice, just sending a hug and hope you can work this out in your head.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 628 | Registered: May 2011
devistatedmom
♀ 24961
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Look, stop beating yourself up. Like you said, it's only been a few weeks, you are bound to have some upsets. If you truly think you might be able to forgive him, and believe him that he is NC and truly remorseful, why not ask him to go to MC with you, while you still live apart?

It may or may not lead to R, but if you feel it is possible, some MC can't hurt either one of you. If he turns around and starts acting like an ass, proceed with D.

I think you still need to sort out what is in your heart and what you want before you can truly choose which path you should be on. Good luck...keep posting.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5623 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
FeelingSoMuch
♂ 38814
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I only have three more months of perspective than you do.

One month from d-day is still "early days."

You still seem to care for this man. D is final. If you're not sure there's nothing wrong with waiting a little longer.

My IC says it's worth it to stay together during this time as an opportunity to grow and learn how not to be in this situation ever again. it doesn't mean you have to be here forever. At 1.5 months, emotions are still raw.

On the other hand, your WH should be doing everything and anything to stay with you. That's remorse. It doesn't sound like he's there yet and you need remorse to even have a chance of R.

Stay strong.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
momdaughterwife
♀ 32209
Member # 32209
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are so close to Dday. Divorce is final. If you're unsure hold off and don't feel bad about weak moments. That being said, here's a few red flags for me. He doesn't know if he can be a good husband after what he did? If he wants to, he can, but it's work. Is it the work he fears? He's giving you mixed signals. You want him to fight for you, but it seems like he wants a free pass or he wants out. Best friends don't cheat or lie, so no he's not your best friend. He has a TON of work to earn that. Have you seen an IC? Has he? What about MC? You said you want him to raise your children. I would advise against thinking about that anytime soon. JMHO. If he doesn't step up soon and show he's willing to fight for you I fear life with him raising kids would be miserable. Proceed with caution and go back to the 180.


Me BS
Him WH
2 boys
We've all been through a lot. Our family seems to be thriving again. I pray that will continue.

Posts: 825 | Registered: May 2011
SBB
♀ 35229
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have learned a lot of things over these last 12 months. One of the most important lessons is that love is not enough.

I too had similar discussions, we embarked on a 3m False R chock full of Hysterical Bonding and pretty words.

But nothing had changed. He thought we could go back to the way it was. He didn't understand that I was forever changed by this. He had lived with this beast inside him all of his life - once I saw it I could not unsee it.

Please - take a step back. Take the love you feel for him out of the equation and look at whether or not he is deserving of that love. By the things he has done to you and the things he is doing now.

What work has he done to address the broken things inside of him that led to this?

What work have you done to address the broken things inside of you that leads to you willing to tolerate this treatment?


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5733 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you thank you thank you for the responses and help.... I need it.

As far as what he is doing- he is in IC. Going to MC the week I move back (I moved back with my parents for a few weeks so that we both could have some space. Next time- he has to go somewhere else, not me)

I've asked for transparency- I have it. He answers all my questions and knows that this road, whatever we choose is going to be long and hard. No kids- don't want them and trust me, to bring a little innocent kid into this would be WRONG. So I know we're probably a few years away from that, At the very least.

I don't know what to do guys.... I want to call, I want to text, I want to capitalize on the great weekend we had but I know that is not the right thing to do. I really appreciate all the support.

RW


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oops sorry- I'm in IC too right now. I forgot to mention that :)


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
Ashland13
♀ 38378
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a lot of understanding for your pain, Residency W.

But I just read your profile and your comments of your WH make me very nervous for you.

One of the other replies in your thread talked about your WH saying he wasn't sure he could do all that he was supposed to, or something like it...that worries me a lot because it sounds kind of like leaving himself an opening...it sounds...ambiguous. I don't know if that's the right word, but the type of discussions he's saying that in shouldn't be open ended, right?

I hope someone else will come along and confirm that or not, maybe it's too bold to say, but any fishiness during those conversations makes my radar go nuts and the little hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

I saw that you've only been M for two years and he cheated for half of it and that makes me very sad.

My other little bit of advice was that I didn't know right away after Dday what my tolerance level was/is. I hadn't gone through this in this extent-when I was cheated on before, it was just a BF in teenage years.

I don't know if that's helpful at all, but at the beginning of this process, I didn't know, exactly, what to think about sometimes.


Ashland 13

You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2413 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Later
♂ 39375
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, don't beat yourself up over the HB. It's a cruel irony that the drive is so strong. I wish I had understood that more fully.

But, you can't make decisions based on how you feel during HB - there is nothing rational about it IMO.



Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the understanding with the HB....it seems so foreign to me that I have to think and rethink every move that at one point made perfect sense... It's like the 180.. Do it for me, don't call, text,... It's so hard when you want to talk to that person.. I suppose I'm in too much of an emotional state to make finite decisions.

In the mean time, going to a new boxing class this week and IC Wednesday. I can't wait to punch that punching bag!!!


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
cayc
♀ 21964
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

180 is hard when you still love your WS. You know you need to do it, but you feel like you're punishing someone you love which makes it easy to forego when your WS is being sweet or calm or willing to discuss.

HB is normal too, for the exact same reasons.

So too is the suspension of it all, and just being couply and enjoying yourselves. A break from the trauma and drama.

So please, don't beat yourself up over any of that.

BUT. And you knew the but was coming. A man who cheats that early in a relationship is a bad bad bet. He didn't have years to grow apart from you and come to decide cheating was the answer. He was right there, married only a year and did it. That's the sign of either a man too juvenile to be married or a budding serial cheater.

My xWH acted like yours does when we had the calm D discussion. Lots of "I love yous" and "I just want you to be happy" and "I don't think you'll ever forgive me" etc. And then pretending for a few days we were a couple again. All the teary eyed, but who's going to take care of you and put air in your tires? Same words. And do you know what those words really meant? They meant he wanted me to pull the trigger so he didn't have to be the bad guy. He loved the calm rational D discussions, b/c then how hurt could I really be? And once again, look, I'm not that hurt, so he doesn't have to be the bad guy.

Because he only wanted to be married to me if I'd be the foil for his affairs. People who cheat from the get go will cheat again. Because that's their M.O. If I had known of my xWH's first affair, we could have divorced at year one. And I wouldn't have lost 10 years of my life until I learned the real truth.

Take your time. Do what you need to do. But you're not posting in JFO, you're posting in D/S so I feel it's okay to be frank with you. Imho, you should divorce him and get while the getting's good. He's not your friend. He's the guy who made a promise to you and didn't even wait 12 months to break it. He's not husband material. He's just not.

(((residencywife)))


"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

Posts: 3205 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
ButterflyGirl
♀ 38377
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I've put you through so much already, I don't know If I can be a good husband to you after what I did"

This is a HUGE red flag for me. It's so backwards. It's like asking you if you're willing to rugsweep this. He's saying, "If you're going to take too long to heal or try to make me change or bitch about the affair or even act sad about it, I'm over it and don't want to deal with it."

I asked him to try for us.

Again, totally backwards. HE should be begging YOU to try for "us."

Honestly, it sounds to me like he wants the divorce, but he doesn't want it to be his fault. He wants it to be your fault since you wouldn't "accept" him for who he is or you expected too much of him (you know, like your wedding vows?). If YOU beg HIM for a chance, you are letting him know he can walk all over you and you will continue taking it and stick around trying to "fix" him.

My best advice is to show him the door. Tell him you deserve better. If he can't be a faithful husband, tell him to get lost, because you deserve someone who will be.

I've seen so many times that true reconciliation doesn't begin until the betrayed kicks the wayward to the curb and stands up for themselves. If doing this causes him to walk away, then he was never going to be faithful or remorseful anyway. But maybe it will shock him out of the fog and make him come back begging you for a chance, groveling at your feet and promising to do everything he can to "be a good husband." Then, you have to watch his actions and not listen to his words..

After cheating, you deserve someone promising you every damn day that he will do whatever it takes to be a good husband and make you trust him again. He can't play these mind games with you and throw himself a pity party, which causes YOU to reassure HIM that you guys can make it.. That's giving him a huge ego boost he doesn't deserve..

He's showing you who he is with the first thing I quoted above. He isn't willing or doesn't want to put in the work to be a good husband to you, so I would proceed with divorce until you hear and *see* something vastly different..

Huge hugs to you.. I wish I could tell you how to make an unremorseful spouse into a remorseful one, but you just can't.. There is no magic trick. You can only set your boundaries and 180 him until HE decides for himself that he wants to be remorseful.. I think your best shot at true reconciliation is showing him you deserve better and that you aren't going to settle for less than a 100% remorseful, committed, faithful husband..

More hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
SBB
♀ 35229
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't think of 180/NC or reducing the intensity of this moment as denying yourself or him of anything.

Think of it as giving you some headspace - an opportunity to step back. Like your had this wonderful date with a new beau but you're unsure of how you feel or what you want because deep inside you know he is no good for you. He is and news. Just some distance so you don't talk yourself into the lie that your love can fix him.

This is going to sound really weird and I HATE admitting it to myself but I think HB helped me heal and together with False R it helped me detach.

Not at all healthy but it also appeals to my ego that it ended on a 'high' when I was strong and powerful - not like the months before DD where I was a pitiful shell of my former self. Weak, numb and beaten down by my own hand.

I had been so desperately unhappy in that M for so many years that on DD I was more outraged that he cheated after all the sacrifices I had made (my self-respect, mainly).

HB/False R was like a fast-tracked version of our entire 9.5y relationship. Infidelity aside it just didn't work - we wanted different things. He wants unicorns and rainbows and attestations of undying love. I want someone a true partner who really does have that undying love and who deserves it in return.

The foundations weren't solid. Even a healthy me and a healthy him would be beating a dead horse by stating together.

To me False R felt like a long kiss goodbye - like the palative care of our dying M. I thought at the end that we'd both realise it hadn't been working and just wasn't going to work - and that we could both move on without malice in our hearts and co-parent out beautiful children together not as adversaries but as separate entities working together but apart.

That was until he went feral.

You see his betrayal wasn't just because he fucked someone else - it was his actions after DD. I somehow thought the emotional abuse would stop after DD mainly because I now had no reason to tolerate it. His betrayal broke the shackles I had used to tie myself to him despite the emotional abuse I endured we'll before DD.

But the emotional abuse escalated. At first with pretty words and ugly actions then with ugly words and actions. The disregard he has shown to my precious children in all of this is something I doubt I will ever forgive him for. Ever.

Having been through False R with eyes wide open I saw clearly that he is broken and that I was broken when I chose him. I may not have reached that realisation for several months/years had I walked on DD and never looked back. I may still be plagued by the horrific "what ifs".

I have no "what ifs" left anymore - I've seen all of the "what ifs" with my own eyes. I lived it.

Don't beat yourself up - but do at lease try to protect yourself. I knew I was risking further pain, further betrayal by attempting R with him. I proceeded with my eyes open about the risks. It was kind of masochistic too and I knew it. The last little bit of self harm to free myself of it forever.

When it blew up I was hurt terribly but it did help me let go of him. That would have been agonising whether or not we had attempted False R - it just delayed the pain for a little while.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5733 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
ButterflyGirl
♀ 38377
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You see his betrayal wasn't just because he fucked someone else - it was his actions after DD.

So very true..

I think your WH is going to be nice when you are nice. Sure, he's going to snuggle and cuddle you since that's being nice and gives him an ego boost too. Sure he will spend the day hanging out and cooking and helping out, but I think this is conditional that you be in a "good mood" and not talk about the problems..

You are going to need to talk about the affair, about the pain, about what he needs to do to earn your trust back. If he starts running away and talking divorce every time it gets too "hard" for him, then he doesn't have what it takes to be a good husband in the long haul..

It's usually not the affair that destroys the marriage, it's what happens afterwards.. If he's remorseful, when you bring up the affair, he is going to be supportive and loving and caring and understanding and pissed at himself, etc... If you bring up the affair and it always makes him complain that you aren't ever going to trust him again, you won't ever get over it, he can't do anything to fix it, etc., then he's not remorseful, and he doesn't really want to change..

Don't beat yourself up over HB. Tons of us did it.. For me, it was the most attentive he had ever been to me sexually our whole marriage.. But sex doesn't make a marriage. Love, trust, support, respect, commitment, sticking together through the hard times, I think those things are the important things, and he has to earn all that back to have a healthy marriage.. And you need to 180 him until you are sure that's what he is attempting to do..

I think if you keep bringing up the affair, you will have your answer.. Don't rugsweep it for him..

More hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Housefulloflove
♀ 38458
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he is saying "I've put you through so much already, I don't know If I can be a good husband to you after what I did"...believe him.

If his actions and words from this point forward prove otherwise, THEN believe something different. Right now his actions AND words are matching. One good night doesn't mean that he isn't in the same mind-frame that led to the betrayal.

Like everyone else said you need to be easy on yourself. No matter what road you end up on (divorce or R) it will be a rough and curvy road.

(((residency)))


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
SeanFLA
♂ 32380
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to say this but he too is thinking D. It's on his agenda to some level. Otherwise he wouldn't even be bringing up the subject if in his mind he wanted nothing to do with "investigating" on how it works. If he was so into R, then why would he be talking about it? I know I wouldn't be. It generally takes for than 6 weeks for one or both people to truly make up the decision on what they really want to do. Emotions are high and people are scared. All you can do right now is trust, but verify. Verify your finances and a plan. Only time will bring back the trust.

One of my friends once said..."Women ALWAYS have a Plan B". LOL I think that is so true.


BS(me) 48
WW 47
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1479 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all your replies..

I know we're both considering D. I've already talked to a lawyer, we've done some research on the Internet together, etc. I am terrified about making a decision so early on when I also don't know what I want. He has said a big part of him is gone... But he doesn't want to take this decision lightly. Is he just taking me for a ride so then he can said "he tried"?

I am moving back into our marital home on 7/20. He keeps saying we can talk about if that is the right thing to do, but I don't want to talk about it at all... It's my home too and maybe it's time that he leaves. Do you think it's okay that I just show up with all my bags, and move back in? I'm not doing it to convince him that we should stay married, but I need to be home. I miss my own bed, my dog, my home. I think he doesn't want me to come back so he doesn't have to face me. It's so easy to move on when he doesn't have to see me everyday.

I'm having a horrible day. This is so hard. I had a girlfriend email me and had a fight with her boyfriend last night and said she "fought dirty" and brought up old baggage to throw at him. I literally burst into tears. I did the same thing to WH the entire marriage. And now it's too late. I emailed her and begged her not to do that. I can't believe some of the HORRIBLE things I held over his head for so long. Literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I called him and told him I was sorry. He said that those things didn't excuse him having an affair, but we both are responsible for somehow getting here. Going to FaceTime tonight to chat for a bit. I want to keep it lighthearted.

This... Is just so hard.

Thank you for all your support.


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
residencywife93
♀ 39695
Member # 39695
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No wonder he doesn't think I can forgive him- I never forgave him and made him feel horrible for making me move for his residency (even though he didn't have a choice), told him all the time how much I hated our house, the city we live in. He thinks I'm going to throw the affair in his face for the rest of our lives!

I can't believe I sabotaged myself for three years now (since we moved). I feel horrible about myself.


Me: BS 27
Him: WH 27
Married 9/3/11
Together since 10/2006
DDay 5/28/13
Filed 7/22/13

Lacing up my nikes and running west!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Jun 2013
ButterflyGirl
♀ 38377
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please, please don't blame yourself for his mistakes. You had a right to complain if you had to pick up and move, and he should have supported you and helped you through that. That's what spouses do for each other.. And you have a right to complain about the affair!!

I don't care how bad the marriage problems were, he had NO RIGHT to lie to you and manipulate you and cheat on you. I like to say that I could have been a 400-pound, drug-addicted, gambling, abusive psycho bitch, but that only gives him the right to LEAVE me. That DOES NOT give him the right to cheat on me..

It really seems like you are letting him shift the blame onto you. So he cheated and now YOU are going to change for HIM??? Like I said before, that is so very backwards..

I know I wasn't the perfect wife. None of us were. None of us are capable of being "perfect." There are always marital problems, but they require 2 people who are committed to supporting each other through the tough times. He obviously wasn't committed to you and working on the issues as a team. He stepped outside the marriage, WHICH IS IN NO WAY YOUR FAULT.

It really seems to me that he has you caught up in some mind game, and you are settling for crumbs from him. He is twisting everything around and justifying his behavior by blaming you. DON'T LET HIM DO THAT. Yes, you can take responsibility for some of the marriage problems, but you are in NO WAY responsible for his affair, and stop letting him make you think that you are!

You can't reassure him that you can forgive him. He has to EARN your forgiveness. Please, you deserve so much better than this..

Hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Topic Posts: 25
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