i will say that 2 months is not nearly enough time "to know." it just isnt. it will take a long time of him doing the things in the healing library, on a consistent basis to really know where things stand. and that includes the mc and ic as well.
the real work starts in my opinion begins when you start to see how he handles things when things are not good....when it is really, really bad...and it will get bad because it is all part of the process.
the truth is that you can take comfort in the fact that if he is full of shit, it will come out, sooner or later.
It's marathon, not a sprint. As sri says, two months can be encouraging, but not conclusive by any means.
[This message edited by sisoon at 9:04 PM, July 8th (Monday)]
Maybe it is rare but it does happen. Hopefully this is still my story in 7+ years.
Just last week I let loose and was packing a bag. This week we are laying beside each other in my parents' house where we are on vacay. Last night we registered for his Sept conference - so we are looking ahead.
R is not linear, people cannot be perfect but when they try really hard to right so many wrongs, R seems possible. It really is a process.
Best wishes to you.
Yeah, they can be as close to perfect as a human can get.
I kept waiting for WH to stop being the "perfect" remorseful spouse.
I waited too, and now, at just about 6 years out I don't wait anymore...I know.
I know he still feels pain when he sees a shadow cross over my face, not often, but every once in a while I think of it.
I know he is thankful I gave him the chance to prove himself.
I know he knows that if there were ever anything questionable to happen I would be gone. No explanation asked for, no talking...just a packed bag. It isn't a threat I hold over his head, it's a comfort in me that I know I would be fine walking through life on my own.
That is where you need to get. It is wonderful that he is doing the 100% remorseful spouse at 2 months out...it is.
But step back and figure out what you are doing to heal you. What are doing doing to make yourself sure enough of you and complete in yourself to know that you will be ok with or without him?
Love and marriage are great, but it's a long road, a really long road. You need to heal yourself first before you can heal your marriage.
If your worries ever came true and he was hiding something it is in your best interest to be strong, for YOU.
After dday a WS can walk the walk, but let them do the marathon...like sisoon says.
Give yourself the okay to not know anything right now, because in reality, you don't.
And that...like everything else, will be ok.
[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:58 PM, July 8th (Monday)]
I hope I am still singing the same tune in 2 more month and then 2 after that and so on...
I guess what I am wondering is for the people that found out they were in "false R" were they ever "perfect" or was there always something clearly missing...
I know I am one badass chick
Sorry, I should have looked under the table at your feet... I didn't realize you had your bitch boots on
I hope I am still singing the same tune in 2 more month and then 2 after that and so on...
I hope you are too!
It's difficult at best but if you have a niggling feeling in your gut I suggest you explore it a bit more. Some of the time it went great too but if I really pushed, and questioned, and was in anyway accusatory to him the anger would pop up. That's when I knew he was breaking NC.
But, the things that I overlooked were that he went into work early (I never imagined the A would occur at 6am); he offered to run quick errands to the convenience store or to get his haircut and would invite me, knowing I was busy doing something else and unlikely to accompany him--he'd call the MOW during these brief outings; he'd take his phone with him while he was doing yard work--I let that make sense because he'd show me the phone if I asked, and I knew his boss often texted during the weekends--what I didn't think about was that he would delete every text the minute it came in and I wasn't standing right next to him to grab it from his hand the instant the MOW communicated (I'd come out of the house and ask to see his phone, and he'd oblige happily because he'd already deleted the text); his declarations of love were somehow "hyperbolic"--now I see they were too melodramatic for reality; he would start doing homework the counselor recommended, or reading a book I'd asked him to, or reading on this site, but he'd never get very far and would just sort of eventually stop altogether; very occasionally he'd lose patience with my healing and we'd have a huge fight where he became very passive aggressive and failed to sincerely apologize until a few days later (he could never be wrong)--I later figured out that those fights usually occurred after he'd been with the MOW and she'd pump him full of messages about how I should be over the A, and how I was just punishing and controlling him, and that he needed to stand his ground; he would get defensive over rather innocuous questions; I'd be ranting about the MOW and name calling her, and he'd agree by saying things like she was a "brat or spoiled"--not very convincing language given the words I was throwing around.
There were more signs which now seem so very very obvious, but at the time, I was so unhinged that I just feasted on the surface messages and care he offered. Also I was often so undone and unsettled that I felt I was actually losing my mind, and I would be verbally and sometimes physically abusive towards him. That type of behavior was so shaming and horrifying to me that I convinced myself that I deserved any inconsistencies in my FWH's behavior, and that I was fortunate to be forgiven each and every time (I figured any man who put up with that, must really love me and be committed; what I didn't understand was that my out of control rages allowed him to feel superior and permitted him to come in and be the forgiving savior to me. What a sick and damaging cycle we spun in this regard). I have since labeled part of this cycle the "reach and slap"; my husband would reach out to me, then the AP would interfere without my knowing, so I'd go toward my husband, then he'd yield to the AP's spin on things, so he'd then change his actions toward me and I'd feel slapped by the very hand that beckoned me forward. Add to this, the fact that I was acting similarly: I'd be all forgiving and beckon my H close, he'd come, I'd pick up a spidey sense of something, and recoil with doubt and hurt...ugh.
So, long answer short, yes, there were signs of false R, but I missed them. True R was so much different; full of patience, team work, remorse, kindness, open dialogue, etc. Most significantly for me, my spidey sense simply got quiet; my gut told me I just might be safe.
I figured that is what you were getting at. As in, perfect R = WH trying to throw you off the scent of TT or continuation of the A or whatever.
As someone who had false R for a year (TT) - no, he wasn't perfect. But he was pretty good. Transparent, home all the time, MC, long talks, etc.
Since I didn't know any better, I would've said he was doing the right things. Maybe not everything possible, but he was doing a lot of things very, very well.
But the only reason I know he wasn't an R "superstar" is because NOW I know what R is really like. I don't wish false R on anyone just to get clarity on what R is and what R is not. But the "hindsight is 20/20" element inherent to false R applies to consistent/real R as well. Here is why:
I don't think any WS is perfect in R. Even if he keeps on this "perfect" path, you'll likely look back and some point and say, 'yea, he could've done this or that better.' You'll just grow and learn more about what you want and need and what this all means for you. With that knowledge, his R behavior won't likely be on a pedestal. Which is fine. He's human. Doing his best and exceeding expectations in most areas is fantastic.
All this is to say - I don't think perfection is normal. But I kind of doubt he's being perfect and you'll realize that at some point. As others say, it is too early to tell. But, even in this moment, I doubt he's being perfect as much as it seems that way. And, truthfully, that's more "normal."
I think it is great that you're asking this, though - being cautious and cynical is a beautiful thing (in the short-term, in the early days).
Then she broke NC and called him. Apparently he told her he was just using her for sex.
I didn't feel safe the first two months -- looking back, that's how I know we were in false R. I felt safe immediately after she broke NC and came back crying saying I'm the only one who's ever valued her. Duh? Since then, I have felt that we are in real R. Not perfect, not even close, but real.
How do you know? Trust your gut. We know when the person closest to us is lying. We just choose not to see it. At least that's what I believe happened while my WW's A was going on.
Things felt just a little odd. She had a new job and said that was causing her a lot of stress. I bought that, even though it felt strange.
Trust your gut. Stay strong.
in looking back, yes there were many incidents that took place that clearly showed that i was in false r. i will add like the others...that the clues were there...my gut told me something was off, but i didnt want to deal with it....i didnt want to face the truth. but i think most of us who have gone through the horror of a false r...can look back and see that in a lot of ways, it was staring us in the face.
here is what hindsight 20/20 showed me:
1. he didnt beg for me back. he didnt. he asked if he could come home...and i quickly and desparately said yes.
2. he was holding a lot of anger at me...for how embarrassed him for going public with his affair, or calling ow to tell her off.
3. he would not give me access to his phone. he acted like it was okay to look in his phone when i wanted to, but i didnt have that freedom to do it whenever i wanted.
4. he would not give me access to his phone records.
5. he still hung out with his friends who he would cheat with.
6. i found inappropriate emails to other women..and he always had an explanation for the emails.
7. he always wanted to go over to his friend's house.
8. he spent a lot of time in his mancave....very secret.
9. he drank way too much.
10. he didnt handle my triggers well. he got mad.
11. he blamed me for the cheating.
12. he just wasnt remorseful.
see what i mean...these were blatant red flags...and there are many more. but they were there...and i chose to ignore them so many times. he would also get "advice" from his ap telling him that i should be over it, that i am controlling, that i am making him pay...all of that. then he would come back to me with this "knowledge" or power...it was really sick. can you imagine? and the ap was a therapist, so i am sure she gave him an earful about me.
but, i always made "excuses" for him....excuses for why he was not doing what he needed to be doing. i would say...."well, he is home everynight, he vacations with me, he tells me he is sorry, he takes care of me financially....mc...he was in ic" those were the excuses but when i looked close, the behavior was not there. and i even made excuses for why he wasnt doing the things in the healing library....because in my gut, i knew he was lying.
my gut told me to check his cell phone at 4am...and i found a dirty text to the therapist. that is how i found out i was in false r.
today, i feel like we are attempting a true r. i would never allow any of the crap i listed above now. i have been through ic...and have become a much, much stronger woman. my boundaries are clear and he knows that i will be gone if he crosses them again. period.
attempting to r is scary...because honestly, you just never know....not really initially....it takes time to see what is really going on.