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So DDay was 4 months ago and it seems like I find myself here now. I was never in R...always in Limbo. WS said he was sooooo confused after DDay and after I kicked him out of the house we went back and forth and up and down on the roller coaster. I couldn't understand how we went from the couple that just had a baby to ILYBINILWY. I just couldn't understand how he could do this to us and seem totally fine.

He never wanted to talk about the A, would agree to go to MC, then say he didn't want to talk about the A...that there were other things wrong in our marriage and that the A is now the main focus when according to him there was so much wrong all along. Of course this was all news to me. I know it's all blame-shifting, justification, denial...etc.

When the fog started to lift and he seemed really really down about everything, he came back to us for a short time and mumbled some I'm sorries and once he muttered under his breath, "we are going to work this out, right?" But he still didn't want to talk about the A...or the OW...or my feelings...or anything really. He would only come by to mope and show me how destroyed he was...and like an idiot I picked him up and focused on him...oh he must really be sick I thought. Sick with grief or shame or guilt.

But a few weeks ago he showed up on my doorstep drunk after promising he would be home with me and the baby that night. It was the night after DS's 4 month shots. I waited for him all night and when he showed up at midnight...I chased him out of the house....told him to go call his trashhole. He probably did...don't really know or care. I was so livid that night, I just saw red and all my anger came out. I said how dare you let my son down...after all of the effort you put into the OW, calling and texting her while I was pregnant and in the hospital giving birth. It felt good to chase him out, but that was the last I saw of the little bit of remorse (if there ever was any) from WS.

Anyway, after that night he has treated me like public enemy #1. No more empty apologies and no more family time when he comes to drop off the baby. After a couple of weeks of the fake civil facade, I just confronted him about it. He said that "the other night was the last straw" and that he wasn't going to subject himself to my behavior anymore. I reminded him that my behavior was a reaction to his behavior. And even though he deserved it, I wasn't proud of my actions when I was angry.

Anyway...after a disastrous July 4th where he insisted on us going to fireworks together even though he was scared of me...he then acted cold and distant during the whole thing. This reminded me of how cold and distant he was during his A. I called him on it the next and that is when he said he has a perfect picture of how his 4th of july was going to go, but I ruined it by not being ready on time.

This coming from the person who atomic bomb destroyed our lives.

Anyway, after that I decided I didn't want him coming in the house anymore when he dropped off the baby. No more coming to the house for any reason at all. If he needed something, I told him I would clear out. If we need to communicate, no texting/calling...only email. I did this more for myself. We communicate our real feelings via text because he sees any verbal confrontation as a "fight" just as long as you are saying anything he doesn't want to hear.

Anyway..... I found an apartment...I figure my own place will be a good start toward D. But when I tried to contact my current landlord I had a panic attack. It felt so final. So real. I texted him asking him, again, if this is what he wanted. Why haven't I learned my lesson??????

He hasn't lived with us for 4 months..the baby is only 4 1/2 months old. He hasn't lived with his own son for longer than a few days. but somehow I believed that if he only knew...that this would be his last shot...that maybe then he'd wake up. What's wrong with me???? It obviously didn't go well.....he started up again with how miserable he was for years....etc.

I realize that I have to detach. How can I detach? Please help. I'm trying to do everything all at once. I wish I could move, get a D, and be detached from him all in like a week.

How did you get through the panic and the sadness and start to actually detach from your WS? I realize that it doesn't matter where I go or what I do..I'm doomed if I don't start detaching from him.

How did you do it? How did you stop your impulses when you wanted to contact the person?

BTW...I know I'm codependent, and just having a baby makes me a super crazy codependent mama bear. I spent the day crying as if today was the day to sign the D papers and I don't even have a lawyer yet. People at work saw me all red faced and crazy. When I'm in panic mode I do impulsive things like text the bastard.

I sat there telling him how sorry he was going to be one day. How he is his own worst enemy...how he hurt me and the baby...and I know it's all falling on deaf ears. I also know that while I'm telling him that he is his own worst enemy I am being MY own worst enemy. It's like I'm addicted to crack and he is the crack and I keep going to get my fix and he keeps kicking me in the face.

I've read codependent no more, am going to an IC, and can certainly talk the talk about what I need to do to move on here (I have spent the last 4 months on this site after all).

I just need major help putting my money where my mouth is. I only lasted with the email only thing for 4 days. I texted him today...about my feelings...again...for the millionth time....GAH!!!

[This message edited by NewMom0220 at 4:18 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

NewMom: I'm so sorry you are going through this! If you've seen some of my own manic postings tonight, I'm going through something similar right now.

The only advice I can give on contact/texting is that I realized every time I did talk to him in any way, I somehow got hurt again. I either got hurt because he treated me like poo or said something permanently scarring and hideous... Or I got hurt because I was violating my own interests and actively tearing down my self-esteem by exposing myself to him any further. I didn't need to be my worst enemy. My enemy(him) was already doing enough. Remember also that what he is doing is abusive. His emotional abandonment and cruelty and silence is all abuse. Don't let yourself be abused.

Journal. Once you get it out of your head you can let some piece of it go. Cry. Really go for it. You WILL feel better letting it all out. It will be a temporary "better"... But you will feel relief.

And be kind to yourself. Let your body and heart set the pace for now. I can tell you that even though I think I might be the world record holder for 180/NC the pain you describe is still what I feel on an almost daily basis (and we are on a similar DDay time table). So know that NC actually isn't a magic bullet. You'll be in agony whether you talk to him or you don't talk to him. Your strategy for survival ends up being the same.

The only difference I can see is that by NC I shut off the valve for more exposure to abuse... Whether it was verbal (ILYBNILWY...) or emotional (silent treatment, etc). He gave me quite enough through what he said in the initial aftermath and through his subsequent actions and inactions. I get the "what ifs" a lot... But then I think about how messed up he is right now (and yours sounds like a holy mess, too) and then I just view him as pretty weak and pathetic... So why stoop to his level?

And, finally, I don't know if this is good advice... But I realized at some point that he's so screwed up that if I keep trying to talk to him, and he keeps spewing his venom or not answering, etc, he is just making it harder and harder for me to ever R with him, if that presents itself. If somewhere deep down in your heart you think you my still want him back, the more loving thing to do is leave him alone. Don't let him destroy the two of you any further. Right now, that's all he's doing.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 4:49 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

Remember also that what he is doing is abusive. His emotional abandonment and cruelty and silence is all abuse. Don't let yourself be abused.

Totally! I agree and it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one. It's like some sick game that he plays and I play and I ALWAYS lose.

Why can't I remember this when the feelings overcome me? It's panic and fear and sadness and feelings of abandonment. It's not even him or missing him anymore. I missed him so much at the start of all this. Now I just don't want to be the one left behind.

Maybe I should print this out and bring this with me to the IC.

You know if he showed up on my doorstep one night with flowers and a sincere apology I'd probably drop dead from the shock. It's never happening, nor is the intense amount of work it takes to reconcile.

I need to drop this loser. I'm gorgeous. Funny. Smart. Normal.

Thank you for responding PhantomLimb...I totally agree and relate to everything you said. You sound like you're in a great place emotionally. Sometimes I'm grateful that he's made it so hard to R because he's made it easy for me to take the steps I need to move forward.

[This message edited by NewMom0220 at 7:55 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

I had a crisis today about whether or not I'm in a great place emotionally. I'm on this business trip and I had to encounter so many triggers that by the time I finally got to my hotel room, I burst into tears for about two hours. I just missed him so bad. Of course then I get mad at myself: how can you miss this creep? How can you even contemplate thoughts of, like you said, him at the door with flowers and remorse? Next thing I know, I'm now crying because I miss him AND because it's making me feel like I'm letting myself down.

Then I thought, you know what, it's okay to miss him. We've experienced the most shattering thing that I think can happen to a person and not only do we miss our partner, but we miss our security and innocence and the freedom we didn't even know we had when this wasn't a part of our daily lives. I miss his stupid face and his dumb jokes... And most of all I miss the overwhelming love I used to feel for him every second I looked at his face or every time he said something totally stupid.

So I just decided I'm going to be okay with missing him like crazy... But I'm not going to make the mistake of then thinking that I can recapture any of that by reaching out to him the way things are right now. Because in doing so I'm reaching out to the parts about him/in him that I love to fill this void I now feel-- but it's a little like sending out a radar signal and it not bouncing back that anything is out there.

I'm betting that's why I keep doing the same thing in imagining what he could say or do to "win" me back. I think it's my brain rehearsing where I'm really at... It's like a self test. I'm not even sure if it really reflects anything I truly want. Like you, I tend to like myself and think I'm normal. So I wonder if my brain is really saying "come on now... Are flowers and tears really all it's going to take for you?". Like many veterans have been pumping into my head these past weeks-- it will take many many more concrete actions for me to feel secure about opening myself up to him again. Because deep down we know we can do this (life) without them if we need to... Or, more specifically, without the drama and craziness they have brought into our lives. It just sucks that they are making us!

Anyway, that's what I'm telling myself. And I would have never gotten here without the support of friends who from the get go demanded that I not settle, that I not let myself be abused, that I stop letting myself be a source of connection between the two of them and, when he started getting verbally abusive, a dumping ground for all of his issues... Because they are his. Let him stand on his own two feet and face the choices he's made without his convenient scapegoat (us).

Again, this may be crap advice, but I'll tell you one thing that I did in our final convo when he told me he couldn't work on R and so I demanded full NC: he kept trying to pick a few fights with the ILYBNILWY stuff and telling me that I had "lost" him before he ever met her, etc. I think he was being mean and saying that stuff because, if he got another rise out of me, he could say "see, she couldn't face her role in why our relationship was bad" or whatever else to make his walking away justified/easier. I just kept my cool and told him that I was hearing him and that I totally believed that everything he was saying either had some kernel of truth in it or, at least, he believed it to be true. But that I wasn't, at this point, going to engage it. Again, not because I was dismissing him, but because -- especially if I already "lost" him and he's about to leave me -- we were way past the point when talking about it would have been healing or helpful for either of us. After I told him I wanted NC I told him that he was the love of my life, that he made me extremely happy all of these years, and that I would miss him and my heart would break without him every single moment... But that, if this was where he is at, it was time for me to learn to live without him and stand on my own. And that was it. I ended the convo right there. I wanted that to be his last memory of me and our relationship. Because it really was how I felt.

My IC says it was a very loving thing to do.... And also probably pretty brutal from his POV. If we end it through a slow bleed of kibble and fighting, maybe that just empowers them to move on with some confirmation that we're as messed up as they are. I wanted to end it with him knowing exactly what he was leaving behind: someone who loved him by choice because he had to that point always earned it. And now he was no longer deserving.

according to him there was so much wrong all along. Of course this was all news to me. I know it's all blame-shifting, justification, denial...etc

My stbx said the same thing and I wondered about what signs I missed. I had NO idea it was bad all along. He told whore that it was bad during our whole 8 years of marriage!

I really recommend the book "Getting Past Your Breakup." You can probably get it out of the library. That and exercise were probably the two things that helped me the most.

Others here recommend "The Journey From Abandonment to Healing" but I have not read that one.

(((NewMOM0220))) You really don't want to be able to detach as your STBXWH did. That would mean you have no soul. Believe me that things will get so much better and you'll be happy you're an empathetic being with feelings!

Newmom, I can so relate to you. My DDay was also in early March and I had a baby boy in Sept. My STBX actually came to me in January and gave me the ILYBNILWY crap and asked for a divorce. I suspected an A, but he of course denied it like crazy. I busted him talking to her in early March though.

In my case, he had no remorse and wanted a quick divorce. He is now living with OW. I also called and texted frequently venting at him through tears and anger. I wanted him to know how much he hurt me. It never did anything, but allow him to hurt me more. We had a huge blowout on Mother's Day where he really got cruel with me. He told me he never loved me, never wanted to marry and wanted to leave me years ago.

I realized right then that I was truly done and went NC for real (I had tried before). Since then, we have no communication other than the house, finances, divorce or kids. Trust me, I still want to vent at him, but I just do it in my head now. Things have been much more peaceful co-parenting, etc. with him. The only annoying thing though is that he thinks my lack of lashing out means that I'm okay with everything now. Whatever, I just let his dumbass think that.

My point in all of this is that you will get there. We all have a breaking point where we refuse to take anymore. I think you're getting closer to that point. You and I will both do much better in life than these losers we pro-created with.

I'm still a long way from being healed, but I know that I'm on the right path. I do expect some setbacks though when I get back into town (I'm away for the summer) and the kids will have to stay with him and the whore. She hasn't met the kids yet. It's going to take a lot to restrain myself!

Newly: you sound so calm and objective. I get that you get to a breaking point... I did, too, and NC-ed, but did you find yourself still sad sometimes? How did you deal/talk to yourself when that happened?

I might sound calm and objective, but trust me, I've got a ways to go still. I still vent and rage, just not in his presence. I don't want him to know that he can still get to me.

I do still get sad from time to time. I guess I just allow myself to feel sad, because it is. I think I also just try and focus on the future. I know that I will one day be at peace with all of this. I also know that I live in truth while he has created a web of lies. I know that I will be better off than him in life.

HI New Mom and Others,

I'm sorry for all of your hard times and am living some of them, too.

Today I smile because I am going on six months pregnant and though all alone, when the baby kicks, I can feel not alone.

STBXH here has not been "at home" for any bit of the pregnancy and the agony he causes is now a sign that it's better that way, though the grief is consuming at times.

Still I am learning a lot, but what I do know and I hope will help at all, is that I had more than just a person to detach from. Several IC's and several priests agreed with this idea, that there is an entire life I thought was going to happen and dreamed of and it's cancelled, ruined, no longer cared for by anyone but me.

So part of my grief and maybe part of all of yours, as fellow BS's, is that we have a "lifestyle" to mourn as well as the loss of the primary person in our lives.

Whether we are INdependent or COdependent, in my mind a spouse (and children) are major or primary players in the theater that is our lives, and the acts up to this juncture, have a curtain drawn and are closed to (many of) us.

I find sometimes that imagery is useful and can take my mind off the really hard parts or people and have always felt like life is kind of like a play, or a theater, where the characters we have daily contact with are always changing.

Marriage and family is another section of the play, or a retake sometimes and it's not to lessen the idea or feelings, just make them dealable. I get tired of "life is an open book and here is a new chapter."

So anyway, detaching is about the hardest part for me, too, even though I am out of the fog that he helped put me in.

Yes, the posts that talk about remembering the hurt WH caused are truly spoken from experience. That's about the only thing that has helped me, with a few other small things. I picture he and OW heckling me and laughing at my ruined life and expense and maybe a dart board is there with my picture. It's more imagery but helps a lot keep my texting down.

Also, he ignores most of what I say, so that helps, too.

A lesson I've learned also, is that the less you contact, the more important it becomes when or if you do contact your WH. I know "mine" doesn't take me seriously at all anyway, so all of this is a mix that helps.

And a crisis line worker late one night had a point that stuck in my head. The man said to me, "ask yourself what you really are hoping to get out of any contact, first. When you feel the whim come, or something needs to be done with your hands, do something else."

SO I come on SI more than I should, but then I can type away and "work" on things, but it has saved me hours and hours of contact and more hurt.

I will close my endless letter with talking about babies and wish you well in your own recovery. You sound strong, New Mom, only 4.5 months from giving birth and being back at work and supporting your tiny new little boy. Don't discount that when you are down and maybe think of all of your feats that are behind you now.

You have more strength in me with your ability to kick him out. I only managed to do it once and it was Mama Bear, when he was emotionally abusive to our daughter and it wasn't the first time. I find when it's in regard to "our" children, I have more strength against him than for myself. I'm proud of you for that even though we don't know each other, but as mom to mom, bravo!

I think of where we live as a safe haven that I can provide us, even when DD gets mad at me for "rules". I am made fun of and complained about for "too many rules", but look what we get when there aren't any? You did the same as I do and are protecting your little boy from harm and I commend that.

I think your WH is gaslighting and other things, one term called "boomerang" when they go back and forth between women or a place to live.

It is very hard to detach yourself from someone that you still love but know that you can never R with. I am in the process now and unfortunately will be for awhile due to health issues. I know he doesn't have it in him to do the work necessary to fix our marriage and himself. I really suck at the 180 and his hoovering always drags me back in for a while, but I know it's useless to try and talk to him about the A. I have just allowed myself to not care what he does anymore. I can't control him and his bad decisions. That is helping me to detach and hopefully by the time I get my health and finances straight I will no longer really care at all.

This worked with XWH#1. When he decided to have his final EA with an 18yr old, I had already detached myself enough to kick him to the curb. He never thought I would or could D him. I gave him the single life he wanted to portray and never looked back and have never regretted it for one second. I finally realized I couldn't change him and I deserved so much better. Unfortuntely I stepped out of the frying pan into an oven with WH#2. I thought I had found the perfect guy, totally opposite of my ex. In truth he is just as bad, maybe worse. At least with XWH#1 I knew he was an ass because most of the time he showed his true colors. WH#2 is Mr. Nice and loving, so I never had a clue he was having a LTA. He has never said ILYBINILWY and has always said even on DDay that he loved me. It's just the aftermath that proves otherwise. He loves me in his own way, whatever that is for him, but not the love that I want and thought I had with him.

The best thing I can suggest is to make a list of all the things he has done to you. Then when you feel like texting or calling him, look at the list and remind yourself of the person he really is. Tell yourself you deserve better than that in a marriage and that your children deserve better than that as a family. NC is the key to ultimately detaching and getting to the final phase of indifference. Now when someone mentions my XWH#1 all I feel is pity and relief that I finally freed myself from his broken self. It is hard, but you can do it!!! (((HUGS)))

You know, after our convo in this topic yesterday, I woke up this morning and I actually do feel sort of detached. I haven't cried yet today. I'm getting work done. When I think about him I just feel sort of... empty?

For those of you further down the road, did you go through this? I've had one or two days in the last couple of months when I've gone without crying... but usually I at least have some chest pains or something!

But this isn't to say I'm actually content with this feeling. If this is what detachment feels like, it kinda stinks.

I hate that he is making me not love him anymore.

You sound strong, New Mom, only 4.5 months from giving birth and being back at work and supporting your tiny new little boy. Don't discount that when you are down and maybe think of all of your feats that are behind you now.

Thank you Ashland13 for the kind words about me being strong. I feel like that at times...like, wow, look how far I've come. I was on the floor on DDay and lost 46 pounds in 30 days (my son was 10 of those pounds), but I still have that yearning for the family we never got to be. I never did just slam the door shut on him because I wanted so badly for us to be a family that I didn't want to close the door in case he actually made it out of the fog. When he did start coming around all I could do was compare his actions to the WS's I was reading about on SI that were actually participating in the healing of their BS. For some reason, even now, I still have a small little nagging kernel of hope that he will come back to us.

I've had one or two days in the last couple of months when I've gone without crying... but usually I at least have some chest pains or something!

PhantomLimb, I've had days like this too. I guess for me, reading your posts from yesterday and your experiences I've learned that there is no magic bullet. Even if we didn't have a child together and I didn't see him throughout the week I'd probably still feel the same way I do now. I keep thinking, if only I didn't have to see him, if only I could move from this town, if only....hearing your story just proves that you cannot run away from your feelings. I have to detach regardless of how he feels about me and how many times a week I have to see him face to face.

My problem is that I know this, yet all day today I still made up scenarios in my mind where maybe next time I see him I should...fill in the blank...ask him to stay and eat dinner, ask him to go with me and DS to the park, ask him to come back home (just for a week...like a trial basis). WTF is wrong with me?

I've always made excuses for him. It's true that when we used to fight, I would shut him down. I'm the queen of having to have the last word. I also used to say, "if you don't like it, you can leave." Now that I can look back to our relationship, I wish I would have taken his feelings into account more. I feel like the way he is treating me now is a huge payback for just about anything I did wrong in the past. That is not to say he didn't do stuff too...and my nagging/arguing/fighting was usually in response to his behavior.

Anyway...I won't be asking him to do anything or texting/calling/making up reasons for us to be together anymore.

I just can't help but wonder if I hadn't blown up at him or had stopped obsessing about the OW or really 180'd him instead of sharing all of my feelings with him every time a thought came into my head. I think for me doing all of these things was another way for me to get closure since he never wanted to talk about the A, the OW, or the hows and whys of what he did.

So in my head I know that everything I just wrote above is utter BS and all of it is a result of his infidelity, lies, betrayal, etc...but in my heart I still feel that tug that says, don't let go...don't let go...maybe if you do this...maybe if you do that....

Stupid heart! Why can't my heart just STFU?

Anyway...I'm learning a lot about myself through all of this. He should be the one in IC and it turns out that I'm the one who probably needs it more than him.

Hopefully this time next month I'll be in a better place. I think I'll start a new thread about 180. Hopefully those of us who need it can keep it updated and stay connected to each other.

[This message edited by NewMom0220 at 3:20 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)]