"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

featherweight posted 7/11/2013 08:21 AM

My apologies for posting about the same situation and not much change. I'm confused as to whether I should be doing "180" or renegotiating terms of R or what. Talking to WH makes me feel like I've lost all power and strength. I thought trust but verify was working (though it was exhausting) and now I realize I've lost that battle - he's too tech savvy.

He says he feels we're no better off than where we were 2 years ago, because he saw that I was checking his email. I'm tired of feeling like the one in the wrong. I told him I wouldn't check anymore - what's the use if it makes him feel we're not making progress and he checks to see if I'm checking?? I'm so tired of this crazy train, just want a normal life and some trust, after all it's been almost 5 YEARS since D-day and 3 years since we decided to try R.

I was strong. I moved on when he moved out (5yrs ago) I dated other people. It was hard to choose to give him another chance and move 1000 miles to start over with him. I stay busy, have hobbies and friends and I go to the gym. But I've made mistakes too. I didn't kick him out when I found inappropriate texts and got him to admit he was deleting phone calls with an old FWB. So what now?? Where do I go from here if counseling isn't a solution (we tried several and made no progress, plus need for child care makes it harder)? He's willing to read a book with me but what good will that do if he "knows he messed up" but doesn't show true remorse?

Sorry, feeling low today.

[This message edited by featherweight at 8:22 AM, July 11th (Thursday)]

simplydevastated posted 7/11/2013 08:59 AM

(((HUGS))) I'm sorry you're feeling so low. I know exactly how you feel.

For this to work he needs to give you full transparency. You need access to his email, texts, phone etc... If he's still deleting things is actions are saying that he's not trustworthy and that he's not willing to work on this. He sounds a little like my husband and just wants to rugsweep it all away. It won't happen.

I would suggest doing the 180. Try to think if this is how you want to live your life, with a husband who's still hiding things from you.

I hope this was of some help to you. It's hard, I know. I have two little ones of my own, I understand the concern for proper and affordable child care. It just one more thing to add to the list to worry about.

You can do it. You deserve to be happy.

featherweight posted 7/11/2013 09:30 AM

I have access to the email but he makes me feel like there's something wrong with me checking. I'm angry that he checks the log and has ANY opinion about my checking!!

180 is happening naturally - I'm so angry and don't feel I can trust him. It's hard to be "normal" around him, talking and showing interest in doing things with him. I feel myself detaching, but I don't think it will bother him. He is happier if I am not sulky & bringing up relationship stuff. If I appear to be "OK" and busy with my own hobbies - good for him because he's always advocated for a relationship that is about independence and individuality as much as our couple bond. Sounds good when there's no betrayal.

Feels like rugsweeping to 180 him at this point. Was much easier to 180 when we were not living together.

confused615 posted 7/11/2013 09:48 AM

tell him you've decided you will continue to check his email,his phone,and anything else you want to until YOU feel you no longer need to.

He can not decide what you need..only you can. Considering he has been in contact with a FWB and has been deleting all of those texts,you really have nothing other than his word that these texts were "innocent." Actually,regardless of the content of those texts, his deleting them is deceptive enough..add in that he has recently admitted he found and removed all spyware and keyloggers attempts you installed on his cell and computer(for the last few YEARS)..and he certainly is behaving like a wayward.

You check because he is being deceptive. You check because he broke your trust..and continues to do so...and gets angry if you attempt to calm your fears by checking on him.

NOT checking would be a foolish thing to so,IMO.

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:49 AM, July 11th (Thursday)]

featherweight posted 7/11/2013 10:06 AM

Confused, thank you for your response. Not sure I have any checking options at this point, but you're right - I need to take the stance that I will whenever I feel the need. I need to be honest about that need... for my own sanity.

hardtimesinlife posted 7/11/2013 11:37 AM

He says he feels we're no better off than where we were 2 years ago, because he saw that I was checking his email.

How about responding with: "You are absolutely right! I thought you would have worked your ass off to earn back my trust by now. Sadly, you haven't done enough. In fact, you regularly do things to erode it. "
Turn that crap around on him. Why do we bs's, feel guilty when they say this line? Don't you just want to look at him as if he has a booger hanging out, and say "no shit"?

sisoon posted 7/11/2013 11:40 AM

After all this time, what gives you the idea that you can trust him at all?

He's violated your trust, and he flaunts his ability to continue to violate his trust.

It sounds like his mindset is that he can do anything he wants because a) you can't find out about it unless he lets you find out; 2) you have a high tolerance for his lousy behavior; and 3) you feel powerless.

Gently, you can't R with this guy unless he's willing to change - and you haven't reported that he has any interest at all in changing himself.

Also gently, I think the problem is that you've given up your power. I agree that counseling is a waste if you mean MC - but I think IC for you could help you find your strength again.

featherweight posted 7/11/2013 11:51 AM

Hardtimes - you make a good point. I wish I could remove any "feeling bad" about what I need. I did remind him that the reason we aren't further along is because I keep finding more crap, the few random times I have successfully checked up on him.

SiSoon, thank you. I have been thinking of IC for me. When I was going before, all signs pointed to a need for another separation and/or divorce. This was (of course) based on my reports of what has & does go on in the marriage. I felt like the same advice kept coming up - leave him already... and there was nothing else to talk about.. so I stopped to save the $.

I think I do need to resume IC again. Just think I know where it will lead.

[This message edited by featherweight at 12:10 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]

silverhopes posted 7/11/2013 12:23 PM

How about responding with: "You are absolutely right! I thought you would have worked your ass off to earn back my trust by now. Sadly, you haven't done enough. In fact, you regularly do things to erode it. "

Pretty much. He feels you're no better than where you guys were two years ago? So, was he contacting other women, including the former FWB, and deleting texts back then too? It sounds like he really set both of you back with his choices, and then giving you attitude/hard time about checking, well, he's guilting you over that? What??

Someone recently bumped UO's thread "Dry Adultery" in the Wayward Side. It might be something that applies to your WH. I'm sorry.

It sounds like you're worried about doing the 180 because it would make you feel like you're rugsweeping, and at the same time you sound drained right now. Is it possible that, instead of doing 180 behaviors with the intent of detaching, you can instead just focus on taking care of your health and rediscovering what your spark is in life, the things that fill you with joy that are just yours, that you can enjoy just for you? If you don't feel comfortable ignoring or detaching from him, then instead of that just put some extra energy into taking care of yourself. That he's been in touch with the ex FWB and deleting texts... well, I think that's pretty suspicious, and I would consider it either an actual D-Day or something very close to it. It's significant. It sounds like a really difficult time for you right now. (((featherweight)))

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:25 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]

sisoon posted 7/11/2013 13:23 PM

feather,

I'm taking a giant jump to a 'conclusion' here, assuming that you did IC before with a goal of deciding what to do.

This time I suggest you say your goal is to 'find your strengths'. If you want some help deciding on S, D, or limbo - frame your goal as 'figuring out what you want'.

The C needs to help you figure out what you want and whether that's attainable, not direct you to make one decision or another.

I don't know why, but I have a sense that you may have downright awesome strength.

featherweight posted 7/12/2013 08:55 AM

Thanks so much sisoon... you're right, I was focused on "what should I do" rather than "what do I want" and I see the difference now. At the time I wrote some things down, what I want/need from the R and they seemed so simple (to always hear the truth from my partner, to share all information), yet were not attainable, thanks to WH placing roadblocks at every turn.

I know I'm strong. I know I can do what's necessary if this R isn't worth working for anymore. I think IC might help me get stronger in my words to stand up for what I believe in, not back down when WH says things that sound like I'm being unreasonable or expecting too much.

That "dry adulterer" post really hit home. Especially this:
"Your BS that you viewed as the love of your life, how could you have not seen it, is now jailer, parent, nag. "Will they ever trust me, get over this? It's been (fill in the length of time) I've done everything I could". -- it's obvious he feels this way, as if his sacrifices should be enough "punishment" and now it's time for me to absolve him of his crimes.

No true remorse. No work to establish boundaries to protect us from future hurt.