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R is failing miserably.

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Alwaysangry posted 7/11/2013 14:05 PM

I've never posted before but I'm at the end and maybe moving from r to d. Quick background my husband cheated twice two months before we got married. Two women both one time. One was married to his friend. I found this out seven months after we got married and two months after the birth of our first daughter. I asked him about anyone else. I even got specific of someone I had suspected. He said no. I found out almost exactly a year later to the first time (2 weeks after our second daughter ) that he did sleep with her before he met me and than three times while I was pregnant with out oldest daughter. She was married to his friend and pregnant two of those three times too.
He swears he ended it on his own and has been faithful since our daughter was born two years ago.
He has been doing the normal. His cell phone is open to me. His emails are open to me. He doesn't go out to the bars. All that stuff. He does work four days at a time away from home. So that's hard cause there are females.
But emotionally I feel like he isn't trying at all. I have times where I just get mad and I throw out low blows left and right. He says I need to forgive him and move forward. But he has given me set backs like lying about looking at porn. But than tells me I'm holding us back and to give up or give in. I don't think it's that simple. It's still a daily struggle for me. And I feel he could be more understanding. He isn't. He eggs my anger on instead of helping me.
He told me I treat him bad now and he also deserves someone who treats him better. And I'm thinking how dare he say that. I was the perfect Gf and wife. He was my world and I treated him that way. His excuse for cheating was he was dumb and the thrill. He has no other reason. Help. I'm leaning way more towards divorce. I can't deal with his selfish and entitled ways.

confused615 posted 7/11/2013 14:49 PM

ANY lie during R is a HUGE problem. He is supposed to be earning your trust back,so lying completely derails that..and any progress made.

If you are not ok with porn,tell him one of your requirements for R is no more porn. That is absolutely ok and understandable after an affair.

I have a real problem with a WS telling a BS they must forgive them. Forgiveness is earned,over a long period of time. And if you can't forgive,that is ok too.

he doesn't support you emotionally and tells you he deserves to be treated better..meanwhile he has cheated on you with at least 2 OW and continues to lie.


It takes 3-5 YEARS to heal from infidelity..and that's with a remorseful WS.

How long ago was your dday?

Other than giving you access to his phone and email account what is he doing to help repair the damage he has done to you,the marriage and himself?

Is he answering all of your questions,no matter how often you ask,without anger,blame,and defensiveness?

Has he gone to IC to figure out his "why?"

Has he written NC emails to the OW,and you sent them together?

Did he get tested for STD's? Did you?

Is he remorseful? Not regretful..but remorseful? It sounds like he isn't there..yet. you have proof that it was "only" one time with each OW? Cheaters lie and minimize..I would wonder if he was telling you the entire truth.

have you told him your requirements for R? Have you set boundaries..and consequences?

Im so sorry for the pain you're in. But Im really glad you found SI...this place is full of the kindest,most compassionate people you will ever "meet."


Alwaysangry posted 7/11/2013 15:23 PM

I've never been ok with porn and he told me he was done with it two years ago. I know he's gone half the year but I think there are other ways than porn if need be. He said again he would stop but doesn't see what the big deal is.
He cheated twice before marriage and than three times after with another girl. I have talked to all three. There stories do match up for the most part. If I doubt any it's how many times with the last one. But he says he has given me the whole truth. He is military and was also in trouble for the first one because she was married. I think sometimes that keeps him on the straight and arrow because he will be booted again. I have proof to make that happen. I chose not to.
He has not written letters. I don't think he would. He has had no contact that I am aware of though.
My first d day was sept 2011. My second sept 2012. It all stopped in June 2011. I was doing good after the ones before marriage. Our r was good. But he lied to me during that entire time. Telling me he was a bad boyfriend but has been a good husband. All a big lie. He was a cheating husband too.
It depends on his mood sometimes he will answer them and be fine. Other times he gets pissed.
I have set boundaries. But like our arguement yesterday when I was throwing out low blows he left and went to the college his mom works at. Which was a no. He said since we were fighting he figured he could. He did that one other time and went to a bar with buddies and girls. Kind of a slap in the face when I never did anything revengeful.
He often holds over my head that I followed an ex trainer that I had a fling with long before him on ig. He brings it up weekly. That's his only ammo.
Std yes. He slept with girls who were known for sleeping with anyone I did that right away.
I feel like he turns it on me a lot. If I say I'm struggling, things are hard for me right now. He says me too. I tell him I feel like I can't fight anymore and I need him to fight for us. He says he can't either. He's drained too. If I leave mad. He will leave mad just to prove a point.
I know I shouldn't remind him everyday what a scumbag he was but its like he forgets what he did and I want to remind him I'm suffering. We saw her car parked at a house next to my Gf house. A car he slept with her in. And it didn't phase him. I got sick to my stomach.
He swears he's changed he only wants our family he only wants me. But it's like he wants me to believe it right that second. He's tired of telling me again and again.
And I mistreat him ?? How does he not see its reflective off of what he did. He reminds me weekly he just wants the old me back. The old me was his best friend.
Oh and when I'm insecure or self conscious about things he makes me feel guilty. Why can't I just be myself he asks ??? After all this and than his porn videos but he wants me to be myself.
I'm fighting a loosing battle.

sisoon posted 7/11/2013 16:29 PM

Can you list what you want him to do that he's not doing? Giving him a list that's observable and measurable could help both of you know if he's meeting your requirements.

From your description, I don't have a very high opinion of your H. Cheating is intolerable. Cheating with a friend's W is worse. Cheating while you're pregnant is even worse than that. All he seems to be giving you are promises that he doesn't back up and orders to rugsweep. If he's drained, my guess is that he's drained because he's lying to you. But these are only my opinions, and they're based on very few facts.

Even with a remorseful W, though, a list of requirements has been very helpful to us.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:31 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]

sri624 posted 7/11/2013 17:07 PM

sisoon is right...a list of r requirements is exactly what is needed. and i think you should just sit down, and really think about what you want to change in order to be married to this man. and you know what? you might think that the things on that list are things "he would never do"...but write them down anyway. and make them non negotiable...if he agrees, great....lets see if he complies, consistently. he will make mistakes thats for sure...but as long as he is making a serious attempt to do everything on that list. and if, he complains, and doesnt want to comply, then the simple truth is that he is not serious about r...and helping YOU heal. because that is what this is all about.

have you checked out the healing library? i would read the section that talks about how do you know if your wh is serious about r. if he is not doing those things, or the personal requirements on your r list, then you know. and you can either 180 him, or think about moving on.

please read it. at the bare minimum, your list of r requirements or 180/get out should be:

1. nc with ap
2. access to all communications - not just the phone...but phone records...there is a difference.
3. willing to talk about the affair, and answer all of your questions...over and over.
4. doing things to show you he is remorseful...not being mad at your triggers or getting defensive, doing nice things for you, attentive to your needs, saying sorry all the time, completely committed to his outsiders during this time.

believe me, i know it is hard...and my husband didnt do a lot of the things i needed him to do for a long time...but when you put your bitch boots on, and start thinking about your feelings, and what is best for will be easier to stand up for yourself. and most importantly...and this is the hardest part....gosh i know it was for me...and i struggled and failed on this so many times....thank god for the SIers who held me up.

but....whatever you do...remember that you have to find the strength deep within NOT be afraid of losing him. when you reach that point, then the decisions, requirements for r, boundaries, and approach to r will be made from a place of dignity and self respect.

you took his ass back...but you want to take him back the right way, you know what i mean?

karmahappens posted 7/11/2013 22:10 PM

Sisoon is 100% right...

but this threw me

He told me I treat him bad now and he also deserves someone who treats him better

I suggest you ask him to look in a mirror, this makes me angry for you!!!

webmistress posted 7/13/2013 09:40 AM

Well for starters, you're not in R. And from your description, it seems like you haven't been from day 1, so it's not failing miserably. That's the good news.

The bad news is that your H is probably still sleeping around. The blame shifting, rug sweeping, and are all straight from the cheaters handbook. He's not remorseful. You'll probably want to read up on the 180, and detach yourself emotionally from him. See an attorney to find out your options, and start getting your ducks in a row for when the inevitable 3rd dday rears T's ugly head. There are people here on SI who have great advice on how to collect information on his activities without him knowing. That's never been something I wanted to do, but sometimes it's helpful in outing a WS who has taken their A underground.

Sorry you're going through this

Alwaysangry posted 7/13/2013 11:45 AM

I gave him my list. I emailed it to him while he was at work. He tried calling immediately afterwards. I didn't answer. He didn't have enough time to think about it.
His only reply to what he couldn't do was tell me the date of the very last time. I know it within about a month. I want it closer. He says he can't.
Everything else he says he can do.
He says he is sorry I just don't see it.
I do have access to his phone and his phone records. He is not sneaky about his phone anymore. He used to take it everywhere. He doesn't.
If he is still cheating it would be very hard to be with the same one person. (The others are moved out of state )
He works with a different group every four days and he has allowed me to install a tracker on his phone for when he is home. He could talk to people out at work that I can't track. And people could come see him there if they are willing to drive. But they can't come in. I guess maybe I need to look deeper.
He says I won't get better. I choose to wallow in it. So when I'm a depressed mess he cant be in a good mood because he's emotionally drained too.
We have seen three counselors. I didn't like the first one. The second passed away. And we are in our third right now.

confused615 posted 7/13/2013 12:02 PM

If he was would see it.

He is making himself the victim here. And telling you that you CHOOSE to "wallow in it" is a big sign that he has NO clue as to what he has done. You are a depressed mess because of HIS actions and choices...telling you it's your fault that he is in a bad mood because you're sad that he cheated on you is just bullshit.

Im sorry.

myperfectlife posted 7/13/2013 22:43 PM

Just a heads up, when they don't worry so much about their cellphones, sometimes they have a secret one stashed away.
If you can, check under his car seat or in other places when he's not around.
Something just seems fishy here...

sri624 posted 7/14/2013 00:48 AM

i wanted to add something else to consider. an honest attempt at r and a remorseful spouse includes him doing ALL of the things in the healing library. no exceptions...and no..."well, he is doing most of the things on that list." it doesnt work. he must do them all...and maybe even some additional r requirements that you personally decide on.

i learned this the hard way....i would say..."well, he is home everyday, doesnt go out anymore, says he is sorry all the time, goes to church with me, changed his phone number....." you name it...i thought he was doing so much.

but now, in looking back...after the discovery of false r last year...i see that he may have been doing those things...but he wasnt doing ALL of the things in the healing library...i had to be honest about that. and you know what? when they are not....they are usually STILL cheating....or just laying low until they start up cheating again...when they think things have settled down.

he was being nice....but he was still blaming me for his affair, he still was rugsweeping, still wanted me to get over it soon, didnt like to talk about it, and he wouldnt give me full access to his phone. you see? i was not in where near it...a lot like your husband.

i agree with the other posters.....if you dont leave him, then 180 him....hard.

a wise SIer told me several times until i got it through my head this: "he needs to be willing to move heaven and earth to help you heal. and that means doing every single things in the HL, and more. she said that he has got to want to r more than you everything to show you that he is worthy."

and you know what? for a long time, my husband didnt do that...i knew in my heart that he wasnt...and it hurt. i made excuses for him all the time...but i knew...he just wasnt remorseful. you know how you just know in your heart when you are all alone...and are honest with yourself?

if you know he is not remorseful...and i think you most of us have have to detach and take care of you....hard 180.

hugs to you. we are all here for you.

freshstart78 posted 7/14/2013 09:50 AM

If ive learner anything thru this its actions speak louder than words. For him to think you should be over this just because he said sorry and for him to blame you that your feelings over his affairs are holding back the recovery process are insane and beyond fair. Like everyone else here has stated....if he is truly remorseful he would be there for u....for as long as it takes. A WS that is blaming a BS for the feelings they are having because of the affair is far from being ready for R. You are entitled to every emotion you are feeling. He is upset with you because seeing u hurt and emotional makes him uncomfortable...makes him feel guilty...and instead of manning up and dealing with it he is acting like a coward and blaming u. He thinks a simple "I'm sorry" will cut it.....he didn't forget to take out the trash......he betrayed you on so many levels...he turned your world upside down.....YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO FEEL THE WAY U DO....if he cannot step up and do what u are asking of him then you need to decide how much more of his rug sweeping you can stand. The longer you accept this from him the harder you are making this on yourself. You deserve better!!!!!!!! I hope he comes around and steps up. But if he doesn't pls don't accept this for yourself.....u don't deserve this!!!!!

Alwaysangry posted 7/14/2013 16:16 PM

The only place a phone could be is in his work stuff. I'll go through that next time he is gone.

I've read the 180. I did try it for a little but slipped back. I will try again. It's hard to not look pathetic. I'm such a jealous freak about anything. Simple as him saying someone on tv is pretty. I want to ask a bunch of questions again. Even though I have already asked. But I won't. Those answers won't change anything.

If he's still cheating, and dealing with this miserable life we have. Why won't he just leave me ???

According to both of them their were no feelings. It was just risky sex. They didn't talk outside of the sex at all. Just the day of each time to plan it. I was able to validate that. He has has many partners that were just sex. No feelings. Is this something that is a deeper issue ?!

His sister passed away in April. I went home with him to the funeral. He was angry that I came. Thought I only came to watch him. Than got mad when I wouldn't let him out. And ignored me. I didn't know how to take that because of everything he was dealing with. Now I'm upset about it again.

He is four years younger than me. 25. He may just be a immature asshole forever.

myperfectlife posted 7/17/2013 10:50 AM

just checking up...any new info?

Alwaysangry posted 7/17/2013 14:15 PM

Thank you for checking up. He came home from work and has been trying harder. But who knows how long that will last. He did say today did I want some wine because I'm in a better mood when I drink wine. So that was really jerkish of him. He made a comment last night that I thought was a bit harsh ( nothing about A) and I told him that. He says I'm dramatic and don't look at the big picture. It seems his niceness is still contingent on my moods. I told him that.
I'm having a hard time 180. I want to ask more questions and its hard to hide my jealousy. I did land a job today that I'm thinking about taking. That's a step.

confused615 posted 7/17/2013 14:20 PM

Take the job. You need to be able to support yourself.

The wine comment is familiar. My doctor put me on an AD...WH knows this,of course...and sometimes when Im triggering he will ask me if I'd forgotten to take my pill that day.


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