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what does this actually look like and how on earth would you know if your spouse has done the work anyway? Especially if they act the same way they did before the A.

I go to IC, MC, read A LOT! and hang out here reading the taking it all in. Yet, how does my BS know that I'm changed? I come to him with uncomfortable things - I try not to conflict avoid. In fact, I barge right into conflict..

He goes to IC and MC AND told me last night that most guys wouldn't go for as long as we have been going. Ok, then how do I know he's on the healing path from what I've done or what he's done? I said what I'm concerned about is what coping skills he's using when he gets stressed or uncomfortable...

if its a certain humility one has then I think we are sunk. When I asked him last night why he did it again after seeing the devastation caused the first time he answered, the same reason you didn't stop right away; Selfishness and not being right in the head.

[This message edited by rachelc at 6:47 AM, July 15th (Monday)]

Yet, how does my BS know that I'm changed? I come to him with uncomfortable things - I try not to conflict avoid. In fact, I barge right into conflict..

Most likely a good start.

First off, you never know. That parts sucks and you just need to get beyond it. I found that I needed the trust in me again more so than the trust in her. What I mean is I know I am good either way, with or without her, and that has given me the desire to try again with her.

We have identified (she in IC mainly and continues to) certain things about her that allowed her to make those choices. Conflict avoidance, holding on to resentment, internal dialog and to be honest reality testing for her. She would just make shit up about me and what happened and the apply some hosed up chop logic to how I was a bad guy instead of just addressing the issues with me. We identified those and now she talks to me about those things. That gives me an indication that she is processing in reality instead of in her childish fairy land.

A second reason I am confident, is we just pull each other aside now when one of us is not 'right' with something and we talk it out. We both do this, but she does more so than I. Again, another little confidence builder and thing she was not doing before.

Another thing we do is tell each other when we feel disconnected. I can tell you this - for the rest of our M if I don't here her say that at least once a month (for a long time more often than that) I will just say to her I think something is up. We have 3 little kids, she is earning her PHD and I have a busy career and social life. We need to reconnect often and she knows it.

Those are just some of the things we do, most of it is on her. There is other stuff but if I needed to point to a few that a indicators of her continuing to work on the core issues we have identified in her that allowed her 'how' and 'why' those would be them.

take care...

IMO, IC should result in changed feelings and thoughts which should, in turn, lead to changed behavior.

Also IMO, you've changed. Compare what you post about now to what you posted about a year ago. Compare how you refused to sue your victimizer a short while ago with how you would have dealt with it a year ago.

Has your H changed? How? I'll ask this, though: if he cheated because he wasn't right in the head, has he healed his head? If he hasn't why does he want to quit IC and/or MC?

I was in IC for 2 years. We're past 2.5 years of MC, with no end in sight (although MC is part of W's IC, so it will end when that does). My W is getting a lot from MC. Strangely, I am, too.

If your H isn't getting what he wants from MC and IC, why isn't he satisfied? Why doesn't he speak up and get what he wants? He gets no points from me for putting up with MC. Rather, if he's not getting benefit from IC & MC, I wonder if he's not willing to face himself and what he's done and to change.

(Note: I'm responding to your reports of your H's behavior, so I really don't know much about him, and my judgments could be way, way off.)

I think he realizes he/we need to go. But he says most guys wouldn't go for this long. I asked him how he expected to win his wife back? Wouldn't most guys be doing anything they could?