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myperfectlife posted 7/21/2013 12:01 PM

I am information gathering here-sorry, it's my nature.
How many here in the R forum had/have a truly remorseful WS who has worked hard...
yet you have asked yourself "why did I stay?" or "I should have left."
If you have thought this, how often and how far out are you from Dday.
Any info appreciated...

sisoon posted 7/21/2013 12:07 PM

Me, but - gently - statistics don't govern individual cases.

If something's bothering you, lay it out. We're a supportive bunch with a lot of experience. You're anonymous and under absolutely no obligation to take any advice you get.

(signed) sisoon, who once couldn't get enough infidelity recovery statistics....

LovingFool posted 7/21/2013 12:10 PM

Well, my Dday was in March so we are 4 months out and reconciling. My WH has been truly remorseful since getting out of his fog. We have been very open with another and have great communication, but it is still rough. I still ask myself why. I still question why I am staying. Of course I love him, our children, etc, but it seems like I have such a new perspective on everything in life. I even question what love is at times.

You posed some good questions. I also would like to see your responses. Good luck.

Jrazz posted 7/21/2013 12:11 PM

FWH was truly remorseful and hard working from the get-go. I still asked myself those questions.

It's OK to have questions, doubts, etc. You don't have to have all the answers now, and you certainly don't have to make any decisions. Something that helps is having a FWS that doesn't push for answers or resolution, but realizes that they need to give you consistency and support until you start to feel like you can handle things again.


myperfectlife posted 7/21/2013 12:42 PM

I understand that there's no blanket answer and this is not a scientific survey lol.
I am in a place of having fought for 4 months for my marriage (before and after DDay) and now my WS is finally out of the fog.
He's remorseful and willing to do the hard work. We've been together 18 yrs and have 3 boys.
My thought process goes back and forth but the basic question I ask myself is:
Do I want to be married to this person?
The questions inside of that are...can I trust him, myself, is he going to fix his issues, does he have the energy for the long haul, can he cope with the negative dynamics that created the environment for the A, do I love him enough to "risk" myself, is it worth it?
I am currently in my own apartment and in the past 4 months I have lost over 30lbs, am smoking a pack a day,and am on prozac and acid reducer. Right now I am not "stressed out" as I was before, but I have read all forums here and understand that R is very, very hard and long work.
Although I have time on my side to an extent, I don't- as my children are suffering and simply wanting a direction.
I know with D I can work on me, without worrying about anyone else.
But I love my WS or I would have filed by now.
I just want some input on the thought processes that happen during R.
We are in MC right now, the limbo has me in a "resting place" of thinking but I can't stay here forever.
As I said, just gathering information :)
(see my thread for more:)

[This message edited by myperfectlife at 12:49 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]

outtanowhere posted 7/21/2013 13:17 PM

Don't feel alone. My dday was in Feb. so 5 months for me. My H's betrayal started 15 years ago so there's a lot of shit to dig thru here. For several years I have thought that if I had not created a family with his man I would leave. The children & the vows I made to him kept me from doing that. I was very unfulfilled in this relationship. Maybe because he was off fucking hookers but, I digress. Somehow we managed to coexist & I convinced myself that what I had was not much different from most 35+ year marriages.

Then, my world blew apart & here I am with my fingers stuck to a keyboard still looking for answers. Sometimes I feel like I finally have my out and I can finally go find a normal relationship but, I'm not young & am not sure that I really know what "normal" looks like.

So why am I staying? I ask myself that at least twice a day. Just because my world blew up, I'm not ready to alter the lives of our children & grandchildren with this chaos that is my life right now. I'm committed to stay & attempt R because I don't want to look back at where I am in life and have any doubt that I did do my dead level best to turn my stupid lemons into lemonade. Today, if I were available & met my H knowing what I know about him? I wouldn't give him my number.

As frustrating as it is, you have to find your own reasons for plotting the future for yourself & your children. No magic bullets or red ruby slippers but, If you find that information we are all looking for, please share!

[This message edited by outtanowhere at 1:21 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]

Heavy Sigh posted 7/21/2013 13:22 PM

The first two years, it would be normal, I think. A BS with the option to reconcile is in emotional self-protective mode, and my belief is that feelings of leaving are part of that self-protection and attempt to regain one's dignity. It's a good thing, in one way, since it's all about self-recovery of esteem, and coming to terms with setting one's boundaries and how one will be treated, and visualizing how one would be brave enough to leave and not be a doormat again if tread upon again.

It's making a mental and emotional plan - preparedness - in case the WS crosses the line and hurts the BS again. Fantasizing about leaving is like building a callous on the heart? Or it's like an emotional stocking up on supplies in case of a hurricane or blizzard? The WS might hurt me again, but the WS will never hurt me as badly as he/she did on D-Day EVER again.

The BS whose WS are still foggy seem to be forever caught in the eggshell walking/fear/crying and begging stage and can't yet progress to esteem-building. They haven't had the option or control to fully reconcile, yet, so can't move to the recovering esteem stage. Those thoughts of reconciling BS about leaving or being resentful probably seem a luxury to the BS desperate to keep a family together. They are stuck in that mode, sometimes, and one of competition with OW, unable yet to get to the stage of evaluating whether reconciliation would truly be a win or a loss in their cases.

myperfectlife posted 7/21/2013 13:57 PM

They are stuck in that mode, sometimes, and one of competition with OW, unable yet to get to the stage of evaluating whether reconciliation would truly be a win or a loss in their cases.

This resonates with me. I've heard that fighting for love can sometimes be more important than finally getting that love. Or person.
In fighting as I have I was maybe trying to prove my value to myself and to him. Now that I know that value I say to myself "If I am so valuable, why am I still here. If I am so valuable, why did you cheat? If I am so valuable, don't I deserve better?"
I understand that R is a roller coaster and I don't want to be on any more roller coasters. I don't want to live the next five years thinking "I should have left."
And my WS-being honest-has said that it's no way to live. (Although he will do it!)
I know that I cannot judge MY decisions based on these responses. I have to make my own decision.
I just want to know what others are thinking and have thought.
I know my WS is remorseful, but he's also desperate to stay married (finally lol). How long can desperation fuel his actions? I wouldn't imagine it would be long.

Wonderingwhy11 posted 7/21/2013 14:44 PM

I do think about why am I staying? I think about the risk to R and what if he cheats again. I try to work on being a stronger person.

I think it is normal to question the decision to stay. I am almost 2 years since DDay and I still question the decision to stay - mainly because I trigger about pre A behavior.

blakesteele posted 7/21/2013 21:31 PM


My fWW had a 4 month fog too...really really really sucked. Since then she is remorseful...but would not put her in the class of others who say their WS is REALLY remorseful and doing all they can. But she is not in the group of WS who tell BS to just get over she is in the middle.

Sisoon has wisdom...I, too, am a statistic nut. But that wont work here...too dynamic of a system. The margin of error makes any extrapolation a guess at best and not even an educated guess.

I have the same set of questions you do. I accept that those questions are a part of us now. I accept that they are valid questions and have faith that the time to answer them will present itself and that I will recognize that time when it happens. Until then I try not to struggle to answer them. (that struggle can be intense when I am triggering and am angry...then I want to answer all of them NOW!) I regret I have these questions, but accept them.

I think if a WS was honestly and deeply remorseful right at the beginning...there would be no beginning to adultery....know what I mean?

So I might just suggest refraining from assigning any sort of percentage to remorsefulness here.

I admit would be comforting to see over the top remorsefulness from my wife. My wife knows this. But if there is only one thing I have learned through this tough trial it is I really do want the truth over any sort of lie or deception. And since my wife is not faking remorse at the level I selfishly would like to witness I know she loves me enough to be honest...and that carries a lot of weight with me.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:36 PM, July 21st (Sunday)]

scissorhands posted 7/22/2013 01:25 AM

I am two years out.
I think he kids himself that because he 'never met anyone" (I no long truly believe that but cant prove it) that its just me making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I do still often ask myself if I am doing the right thing staying but I stay for now for a variety of reasons of which some are not particularly nice.

WH emotional bank account has a balance of 2cents in it so really its a lonely marriage and I do deserve more.

myperfectlife posted 7/22/2013 11:20 AM

I think if a WS was honestly and deeply remorseful right at the beginning...there would be no beginning to adultery....know what I mean?

Yes. "If you were sorry, you wouldn't have done it."

Today I am coming from a place where my WS is extremely remorseful, addled with guilt and realizing with each passing minute the amount of devastation he's caused.
I think he feels like he can never make it up to me, although he's willing to try.
I am so much further along in the grief process than he is, because there was at least a month a him going back and forth (which is the worst, of course).
Now that fight is over I have stopped to ask myself, what do I really want.
I simplify it this way:
You're at the park and your dog gets off the leash and starts running across the field toward the street. Of course your first instinct is to run after the dog, jump hedges, skirt the rocks, leap over the ravine, dodge the bee hive...finally you catch the dog and he's in your arms!
Then you get home, relieved that the ordeal is over and the dog shits on the white carpet and pukes on your leather couch.
Once you've finally won the chase and brought home the prize you remember...damn,this dog chews my shoes, farts all night, eats cat poop out of the litter box, won't stay in the damn yard for anything. Ok, yeah the dog is cute, it's comforting to not be alone at night and the dog loves to go on rides in the car. The kids love the dog. I love the dog.
But is this working? Or should I have let the dog run when it had the chance?

sisoon posted 7/22/2013 11:28 AM

My W was remorseful from the moment she confessed. We didn't have to deal with 4 months of unreality after D-Day or a separation or kids at home, but I asked all the questions you're asking.

My main way around it was to hold off from committing myself to R until my W had acted consistently to R for 90 days. During those 90 days, every issue was 'stay (see if we could work it out) or go' for me. When I committed to R, every issue was 'work it out', although I knew we could split if we couldn't work it out.

In the early days (up to 9-10 months?), we addressed every issue that came up, because I wanted to test my W's commitment to resolving issues. we put some issues aside, mainly at her request, but she always committed to getting to them eventually.

In other words, I allayed my fears by asking for what I wanted and by pushing my W to work on stuff I wanted her to work on. Sometimes she refused because she felt she needed to work on other things first, but since I was seeing pretty constant (but slow) improvement, that was OK. Also, her IC/our MC usually sides with my W WRT when she works on what issue.

My W's IC is our MC, and she's terrific, so we've both felt supported by her, even as she confronts us. She's very tough on my W, so when our C backs up my W, I can accept it. Our C has been critical to our progress - we know she'll help when we reach an impasse, so impasses are just bumps in the road. Without our C, we might still be stuck at our first impasse from 2.6 years ago....

myperfectlife posted 7/22/2013 11:34 AM

Thank you. You gave me a lot to think about.
I think for me it's two fold. On one hand I am worried about the stress of R on myself and my children. Also, I have been married since I was 18 (and this is my second M)...and I wonder do I want to be married at all or to work on me.

So, there's that dynamic as well.

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