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foreverempty posted 7/24/2013 11:56 AM

My parents have asked me for some help in a decision regarding my sisters choice of partner and a recent request from him to talk.

I'll run through a quick history.

Sister is 35, her SO is 25.

They have 2 children together, DS4 & DD2.

During both pregnancies he has left her and slept with other women and gone out, got drunk and not come home on several occasions.

He denies sleeping around but has stayed at their houses and my sister has seen inappropriate texts. One of the girls has also confessed to sleeping with him on numerous occasions.

On top of all this he is physically abusive towards her. Last year my sister turned up at my parents when I was working away with my dad all battered, bruised and terrified. He tried to kick her down the stairs of her block of flats and had her by he neck saying he wanted to kill her, all infront of their 2 kids. DS was trying to pull him off my sister apparently.

Police have been called a number of times, although not on that particular occasion. Mum and dad have been so supportive of my sister and have obviously been massively let down by her SO of whome they both treated as a son especially as his family live a number of miles away.

Last year when they separated I gave him my house for free as it was empty so they could have space to try and decide on their future, not wanting to get too involved myself. He had been there for me quite a bit during my separation and whenever there was an emergency he would always be there for me. At the time this left me feeling quite conflicted but I didn't know about the physical abuse at that time.

Sister went through a phase of being strong and not wanting to see him again but continued to sleep with him which resulted in a pregnancy and subsequent termination around Christmas just gone. She wanted him to have nothing to do with her at the time and again my parents were by her side throughout even though my father was really hurt at the choice of termination he didn't push his beliefs on his daughter.

Unfortunately now she is besotted with him again. He's lying still, keeps saying he's trying to get help but never does. He stays with her and they sleep together every weekend pretty much now when he comes to see the kids.

She has turned on my parents and treats them like crap now, the more she gets into SO the worse she is treating them. They still baby sit every Sunday night and Monday but its always tense and she only really see calls them now when she wants something.

Back in February her SO texted both me and my dad to say he wanted to chat. At the time we both said fine if you feel the need to. My sister at that time was still very negative about him, he never got back to either of us.

Roll on last week and he's text my dad the following.

Hi it's SO this is my new mobile number.

It was good to see you both yesterday and I know it must of been extremely difficult for you both.

I really think the four of us should sit down and have a chat about some things before the children's birthday party.

I aren't prepared to explain this over the phone on text or email I want to do it face to face so I pass it onto you. I am happy to meet you somewhere neutral or your house or the flat.

I look forward to your response on this.

Regards
SO

Dad is due in hospital for an operation next week and as such he is trying to get all the odd jobs in around the house he can along with working as many shift as possible as he won't be working for a month or so after the operation and hence won't be earning.

He doesn't know how to respond. He's stuck because if he says he won't meet SO my sister will use it against them and say its them being difficult as her SO is trying.

She has threatened to move away and not let them see the kids any more if they keep making her life difficult and my parents are scared shitless about that happening as they love their grandchildren so much.

They also worry that by not going along with this they will push my sister further into his arms and then when he repeats his behavior again she will be too far away for her to come back to them for support.

I've tried talking to her, as she spoke to my dad like crap the other day and I heard as it was on speaker phone so I text and told her she was out of order and needed to apologize as they have been so supportive of her and do so much for her still now.

Her response was that she wasn't out of order and that if we felt she was maybe she should stop coming around with the kids...... She has a real evil streak now she's back with her SO!!! She's all over my parents when she wants her carpets or sofa cleaned, decorating or plumbing stuff done or help to store the kids old clothes....

My parents also paid off all my sisters and SOs credit card debts, about £12k and when they split SO has told my parents they can go take a jump as he's never going to pay them back. Him and my sister have since racked up even more credit debt, including all new carpets and leather sofa on finance....! Still no payment to my parents. My sister even asked if my mum would top up her money so she could rent a house for her and the kids instead of the flat that my parents paid the deposit on for her as well. She just wants to give them the flat back which is now worth less and let them deal with either renting it or selling it.....!

They are a toxic couple as they both hide stuff from each other, he still goes out and does wherever he wants and my sister is now texting other guys arranging to meet up on nights out with the girls to keep her options open. All the while there's 2 little kids mixed up in all of this......!

It's insanity. My parents really don't deserve it as they have been so good to us all as kids, have always been there for all of us emotionally and financially, are both in their 60's and just want to have a relaxing enjoyable life with good relationships with their kids and grandchildren.

I'm not sure which way to guide them.

For me I would be responding to say something like,

"it wasn't difficult seeing you, after everything we have been through we no longer wish to be involved in your relationship with daughter. We love her and will always be there for her and our grandchildren but until we see some sustained change in your attitude and behavior within your relationship we don't see there as being much to talk about.

Dad has an operation next week and between now and then is very busy so unfortunately the option of meeting up is just not practical and as nothing has changed regarding your circumstances we really don't see any point at this time in meeting for a discussion.

Hopefully over time we may be able to rebuild a relationship but at this moment believe that keeping out of your personal issues and relationship with our daughter is the best way forward for all"

What do you think?

Inside my dad wants to punch his face in but is far too nice to do it, my mum doesn't want him in her house as she can get over seeing her daughter all battered and bruised and scared for her life that night less than a year ago!

Sorry it's such a long post! Apologies for typing and grammar, I've just typed all that on my phone rushing in work!

[This message edited by foreverempty at 12:19 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)]

lieshurt posted 7/24/2013 12:25 PM

I think you all need to quit helping her. There is nothing you can say to her that will change her mind. She has to make that decision for herself. Right now, your parents are enabling her choices and behavior...and his too. Let her face the consequences of her choice to be with an abuser. If things get too bad, then they may need to be reported to the authorities, so that the kids can be protected.

I feel for you and your parents. I know it's difficult and painful to watch. (((hugs)))

lostmommy posted 7/24/2013 12:29 PM

I think that the more she's pushed to get away from him, the harder she's going to be pulled towards him. I think your family needs to show some tough love and stop being so openly available to her - financially, emotionally, etc.

It's hard. You never want to see people you care about hurting. I agree with lieshurt...if the abuse continues someone needs to protect the children.

devistatedmom posted 7/24/2013 12:38 PM

I'd tell your dad to just say he doesn't have time to sit down and talk right now, with his operation pending. That ends that.

On the other side....yeah, they have to stop bailing them out money wise, and have to stop letting her treat them like shit. Yes, I understand they don't want to lose their grandkids...but she's using the kids as a weapon...a threat against your parents if they don't do what she wants. She needs to grow up. She should get away from this guy, but she doesn't want to and the rest of you can't make her. So, your parents have to start saying no, and stop the money flow. Yes, she might turn around and stop bringing the kids...but I'm betting she won't for long, because she likes the free babysitting.

they can't sit there and let her hold them hostage. They can just let it be clear that they cannot help financially anymore, but will always be there for her emotionally. If she ever gets her head out of her butt and leaves him, they can help her then...as long as she's civil, AND working on herself to make a life, not just expecting them to bail her out and look after her, kwim?

nowiknow23 posted 7/24/2013 16:35 PM

forever - My heart just breaks for your parents. Such a horrible thing to watch your child make these choices and be given nothing but wrath and threats in exchange for a lifetime of support and love.

I can't offer anything that hasn't already been suggested, but just know that your parents, your niece and nephew, and you are in my thoughts.

kernel posted 7/24/2013 19:11 PM

Wow. What a mess. I agree with others that it's time to cut her off. She keeps threatening with taking away the kids, but she'll be back the next time he hits her or the kids - and he will. Unfortunately, this is a cycle that is hard for an outsider to break. She has to press charges.

IMO, he only wants to meet now because he wants to make nice and ask for more money. I would advise your folks to tell him the timing is bad due to the operation. I would also find a way to mention tight finances because he won't be working after the surgery.

foreverempty posted 7/25/2013 05:54 AM

Hi all

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer.

Showed this post to my parents last night and they thanked you all too for being understanding.

Here is dads response. I don't necessarily agree with it as its too nicey nicey but dad has to feel comfortable with what he sends. Ultimately thy are worried a neutral/negative or zero response will trigger worse events surrounding my sister, both her bahaviour towards them and her SO against her.

Hi Sisters SO, We enjoyed DS graduation and did not have a problem. We are and always have been available to talk as we were in February. At the moment we are busy working on the house and garden before I go into hospital. Not sure how long I will be in for, or when I will be out. If you want to tell us
something in the mean time, then send me an email, FE's Dad, email address included

Guess its just wait and see what comes back from it now though.

nowiknow23 posted 7/25/2013 08:02 AM

I think it's just fine. You're right - he has to be comfortable with what he's sending. And the salient points were definitely made.

Sending heaps of healing mojo for your dad.