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It's been a long 5 years

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WoundedOpus posted 7/26/2013 07:23 AM

3 nights ago I packed a suitcase and moved out of our bedroom. For now thatís as far as I can go, but at least itís a starting point.

Iíve given it 5.5 years and I canít give another day. In those years FWH has made a lot of changes for the better, heís a better father and more available husband, heís grown up a lot, less angry and more focused on doing things that should make me happy. But he never once tried did, or even tried to do, any of the things necessary to fix our broken marriage or my broken heart and has just done more damage to both. Some times what they donít do is worse than what they did.

Over the last few months I made a final, all in effort to wake him up and get him to see that none of the things heís done matter if he canít and wonít do what I really need; the core of us is broken and needs to be fixed, everything else is just surface stuff. How can he think or say, he loves me, when he wonít give me the one main thing I need; the truth? How can he be so callous as to tell me he cares about me, ask me to stay and share this Ďhappyí life with him, while at the same time asking me to pretend the worst thing that ever happened to me, that he did to me/us, never happened?

In 5.5 years heís said maybe a total of 10 sentences about his A. They all lack any substance or detail, they lack remorse or sorrow; and thatís on his good days. ďIím sorry. I know it was wrong. I regret it. Iíll never do that again. It was the biggest mistake. I donít remember anything, it was forever ago. It didnít mean anything and was so long ago, so I put it out of my head. Itís in the past, I wanted to forget it so I didĒ. On the his bad days? ďYouíre making it into more than it was. It (the calls/time together) was just work related; nothing happened. Youíre making a big deal out of nothing. It was 5 years ago. Weíve been over this and over this, nothing I say will be enough. (as if heís actually said anything at all). There was nothing there, it/she didnít mean anything to me, so I donít remember anythingĒ.

The man has become my biggest trigger and he doesnít even know what a damn trigger isÖheís clueless.

I told him you win. You can now live the rest of your life knowing you will never again be faced with the biggest consequence of your affairÖowning what you did and telling all of your secrets. He can now breathe easy knowing he will never again be asked a single question, fear the moments I yet again bring it all back upÖthatís done. I always thought divorce and losing me/us would be the worst thing that could happen to him, but itís not, because thatís what he is choosing over coming clean and doing the work.

Of course he doesnít see it that way. Heís sure a breakthrough was just around the cornerÖdonít I know how hard this is for him? Donít I get that heís been trying, but (insert all the BS) are his natural instincts, and thatís not something he can change over night. I thought I might lose my shit here.

Over night? I said I have never asked for anything over night, but youíve had 47, 544 HOURS / 1,981 DAYS to work on it and there hasnít even been a baby step! Hard for you to not do what comes natural (avoid/compartmentalize/etc)? Well, I guess this was easy for me then. Easy to forget I donít avoid or rug sweep everything and push it away hour after hour, hurting myself. Easy for me keep quiet when Iím dying inside. Easy for me to shed my dignity and self respect, easy for me to set aside my pride and practically beg for him to love me enough to be honest and truthfulÖover and over and over again, for 5 very long years. Yep, itís been so easy for me so I should have no problem having compassion for how hard this is for you and give you more time.

Iím at a fairly good place, I donít take it personal anymore; at least not much or often. I know he has his problems and they have nothing at all to do with me.

God itís sad. Sad to watch someone cling to their bullsh*t and fears and pride so hard that theyíre willing to lose it all. Itís taken 5.5 years, but I can now see my finish lineÖIndifference.

Wish I'd found SI right after the A, I probably could have avoided years of hell

So, we agreed we need to discuss the practical stuff, in-house living arrangements and kids schedules and whatnot. Financially Iím not in a good place to do anything, so nothing drastic will happen anytime soon...but for now, this is a start and it is enough.

Threnody posted 7/26/2013 07:46 AM

I remember your first few posts, WO. I'm sorry he's unable to give you what you need for healing. I think after this amount of time, and after this amount of your trying, you deserve the chance to lead your own life. If he can't do what's necessary to be a part of that life, you're making the healthy and correct decision to cut loose from him.

The Divorce/Separation forum has many strong, loving people who found themselves in the same position. I hope you'll read there and in New Beginnings (it's not just about dating!) and discover just how peaceful life can be once you're away from the negativity.

Sending you hugs.

MovingUpward posted 7/26/2013 07:49 AM

Of course he doesnít see it that way. Heís sure a breakthrough was just around the cornerÖdonít I know how hard this is for him? Donít I get that heís been trying, but (insert all the BS) are his natural instincts, and thatís not something he can change over night. I thought I might lose my shit here.

One can work tirelessly with a hammer and saw but those are useless when the issue at hand is a flat tire. I'm sorry that he isn't grasping what you need fixed in the marriage.

cancuncrushed posted 7/26/2013 09:32 AM

I could have written this letter word for word. And the time line is spot on also. Right after his EA or PA, not sure, still, his first reaction was that I was so dramatic. I was throwing fits. Why was I so over the line? He didnt get it for way too long. It was time passed that finally started donning on him, this could be really upsetting to her. I dont know yet what ailment my H suffers. ADHD, OCD, or NPD. There is clearly self-centered no emotion thing there. He has experienced so many changes. SO...I try to figure this out. He is listening alot now. He is open to these possibilities. ANd now catches himself and is also suprised at himself. Thats where we are. At 5 yrs he is just now coming around to a level that is an improvement. He has alot of fear issues. ANd they have been thru the roof for yrs. But I am empty. I have suffered from all time low to empty monotone. I now see some hope. But I will never be the same. Its had a great effect on me. Right now, I believe his fear drives him to do what he does. To act out, to hide, to deny deny deny. Alcohol. He has had panic attacks these last few years. Its mostly money, career related. I believe he is now a functioning alcoholic. Which has its own effects.

WoundedOpus posted 7/26/2013 10:14 AM

Thanks everyone, I needed so badly to just get it out there.

I've been reading the New Beginnings section Trenody, just sad still that it's come to that.

tushnurse posted 7/26/2013 10:27 AM

Please take care of you. It's ok to put you first. You should. If finances are an issue w/ D'ing, have you seen an attorney? If not please do. Many people assume they are stuck because of finances, and in reality there is more help than they would have ever guessed should they want to get out.

Be good to you.

((((and strength)))))

kiki1 posted 7/26/2013 10:47 AM


I understand completely. i have reached the same point as yourself, but I am at 3 years.

Took him 2 1/2 years to finally verify another affair that i had suspicions about. Still lied about the frequency and intensity of it though. Took another 6 months to get that information. Even this late in the game.

I'm too tired and emotionally worn out to struggle anymore.

I understand now that I am the only one who has been struggling. When i mentioned this to him last night, he laughed.

Its still all about him.

No truth, no counseling, no job change (where the two women came from and friends who knew of the a's and enabled them).

I told him yesterday i no longer want the relationship. Its not worth it to me anymore.

He wants to rug sweep it, while i die on the inside.

Tells me often he loves me though. Really?? how do you watch someone in agony begging you for something and you just pat their shoulder and go one with your life? That's love?

it isnt the love i offer.

Please consult with an attorney WO. There may be info your unaware of that will help you get out of that situation.

We deserve the love we give. if at this point of the game they arent able to give us what we ask, they arent going to.

Best we accept that and move on. Life alone would be better than life with someone who causes us such pain.

I'm sorry.
hugs to you

Ariel posted 7/26/2013 11:09 AM

Life alone would be better than life with someone who causes us such pain.

I couldn't have said this better! I wasted 11 years of my life trying to get my SAWH to "wake up" and realize what he was losing. He chose himself - no surprise - it was always about him.

I have been separated for about 2 1/2 months now and am slowly growing stronger every day. Some days are a struggle, but that's to be expected.

Yes - it's so utterly sad that our spouses are so caught up in their own selfishness that they truly do not realize how they are messing up their own lives by either stuffing, compartmentalizing, or ignoring the real issues at hand - THEIR issues!!!!

I pray that you find comfort in knowing that you did everything that you could have done to try to make your marriage work. You can walk away from it now, holding your head high knowing this. He will never find true happiness - it will only be surface, which is a pathetic way to live. As the quote above says, I would much rather live alone than in a superficial relationship that is based on nothing more than physical attraction & superficial conversation - which is what my SAWH is pursuing. I choose to find someone much more than just these things - someone who will actually put my feelings above his own - or at least on the same level. Plus, a man who cannot be truthful - who is full of deception - is not worth anyone's time or effort.

You are in a much better place than him - even though it may not feel that way right now. You are a much better person and deserve far more than he would ever be able to give you.

Hugs to you..... You're doing the right thing. Stay strong and continue to take good care of yourself. You're already headed in the right direction.

heartache101 posted 7/26/2013 11:26 AM

Fault Based Grounds:
(1) For adultery; sodomy or buggery; (2) Conviction of a felony or incarceration for at least 1 year; (3) Where either party has been guilty of cruelty, caused reasonable apprehension of bodily hurt, or willfully deserted or abandoned the other, such divorce may be decreed to the innocent party after a period of one year from the date of such act. (Virginia Code - Title 20 - Sections: 20-91)
I looked it up for you just in case you wanted that.

And here is the spousal support one..
if you and your spouse are unable to reach and agreement on this issue, the Domestic Relations Court will order support from one spouse to the other on a case-by-case basis as follows:

When making a decision of whether or not support shall be awarded, how much, and for how long, the court will taking into consideration the following: A. The obligations, needs and financial resources of the parties. B. The standard of living while together as a married couple; C. The length of the marriage; D. The age and health condition of the parties and any special circumstances of the family; E. The extent to which the age, physical or mental condition or special circumstances of any child of the parties would make it appropriate that a party not seek employment outside of the home; F. The contributions, monetary and nonmonetary, of each party to the well-being of the family; G. The property owned and income potential of that property owned by each party; H. The property award; I. The earning capacity and employment opportunities; J. The opportunity for, ability of, and the time and costs involved for a party to acquire the appropriate education, training and employment to obtain the skills needed to enhance his or her earning ability; K. The decisions regarding employment, career, economics, education and parenting arrangements made by the parties during the marriage and their effect on present and future earning potential, including the length of time one or both of the parties have been absent from the job market; L. The extent to which either party has contributed to the attainment of education, training, career position or profession of the other party; and M. The tax consequences to each party, as are necessary to consider the equities between the parties. (Virginia Code - Title 20 - Sections: 20-95 and 10-107.1 and 20-108.1)

Sounds like your state has fairly decent laws to help you make it financially. Maybe that is why he never ommitted to the PA???

Good luck..

[This message edited by heartache101 at 11:37 AM, July 26th (Friday)]

still2suspicious posted 7/26/2013 12:54 PM


I am right there with you.

I told my IC just yesterday that unless something DRASTICALLY changes I will be gone.

And although I don't believe I have ALL the truths it's really not the A that killed my love. It is his inability to acknowledge the true damage he has done to me. The fact that HE has deemed it all in the past. (Sorry I didn't mean to t/j. I need to start my own ranting thread )

Just letting you know my heart goes out to you. And all of us in the same boat.

AJ1952 posted 7/26/2013 15:37 PM

Sept 6 it will be 3 yrs since my D-Day. This was 3 wks after our 30th anniversary. I feel so stupid that it went on for 5 yrs and I never had a clue until she ended it. He doesn't want a divorce and I'm only staying because I feel there's no other option as I would have to find full-time work with benefits and at 60, who's going to hire me? Believe me, I've tried. My 2 adult children don't know, but I'm worried if they ever found out would they think less of me for staying? I know they'll be disgusted with their father, but how would they feel about my decision?

WoundedOpus posted 7/27/2013 10:50 AM

The length of time I've been I've been home with the kids, plus the number of kids would put me in a good position financially, but there are a lot of things to consider. First is my daughter and her daughter, who live with us and rely on us heavily. Unfortunately, like so many others, we bought high and are now upside down in our mortgage, so selling the house is not an option, and the mortgage is too high for either of us, so staying isn't an option either. It would be impossible to find a house to rent at half or less the cost of this one that would be big enough for everyone (7 people), so first she would have to find somewhere to go. Then we could face letting the house go and begin to look for 2 rentals large enough and cheap enough for him to cover both.

None of this is impossible, but extremely complicated, and won't happen quickly. Neither one of us wants to pretty much kick her and her daughter out, especially knowing how unprepared she is. There truly is no place for them to go where she could be financially independent.

I know seeing a lawyer will help me better prepare for the future, having a better estimate of what I can expect financially will help in making decisions. I'm glad I don't have to fear FWH being an total ass and trying to screw me over. I'm not so naive to believe he'll think nothing of himself and just worry about me, and I realize that he's made a ton of choices that we all know are very selfish, but there are certain things he does care about very very much. He would never want his children in daycare of any kind for even one second. If that meant handing over more $ to me so that I wouldn't have to work then he would. We are both very aware that there is absolutely no job I could find that would ever bring in more $ than daycare would cost anyway, so it's really a non issue. (It would have to cover full-time CC for one and before/after school care for 3) The baby won't be in school for another 4 years, so we both agree that me contributing financially isn't even part of the equation until then. Once all of the boys are in school full time we would of course discuss the option of me finding part-time work; something he has never wanted me to do, with 4 children he has always wanted them to have a very involved mother that was available 24/7, but this is the new reality we/he must face now.

So, first things first we need to come up with a plan for my daughter and granddaughter, then we can move on the the nitty-gritty of it all. But I do agree seeing a lawyer before then is important, so I won't wait until that's fully settled.

I believe his fear drives him to do what he does. To act out, to hide, to deny deny deny

Yep, that's him. Like yours, my FWH is now open to a lot of what I'm saying. His FOO issues caused his personality, and he's not ready to deal with it yet. It's like he thinks he'll explode on the spot if he let's go for just one second and opens his mouth. He is emotionally stunted to the point he can not feel pain any longer, and completely lacks empathy.

Tells me often he loves me though. Really?? how do you watch someone in agony begging you for something and you just pat their shoulder and go one with your life? That's love?

it isnt the love i offer.

Exactly, it's the point I've tried to make over and over. They won't get it because they can't.

He will never find true happiness - it will only be surface, which is a pathetic way to live. As the quote above says, I would much rather live alone than in a superficial relationship that is based on nothing more than physical attraction & superficial conversation - which is what my SAWH is pursuing.

As said as much last night when he was asking if I truly think divorce is the only option. I said I've come to realize all he has to offer me is a 'Good Time'. If I just wanted someone for sex and some fun I could go out and find that anywhere, what I need is a HUSBAND! I actually said the exact words, "I'd rather be Alone than Together and Lonely"...I don't think he has the capacity to grasp what that really means.

I know in my heart I've tried everything, and given him more chances and time than he ever deserved.

Heartache101 - Thank you so much taking the time to get me the info. I don't believe he doesn't fess to the a PA for any rational reasons, that would mean he ever took me seriously enough to do some homework...he just can't face what he's done, what all of this says about him; he falls in the category of W's that fess to as little as possible and only when hard evidence is in front of them. I have a lot of work to do!

((still2suspicious)) T/J away! So sorry you're in the same place..I hope your FWH hears you and makes the drastic changes you need before it's too late!

((AJ1952)) I'm so sorry, what a tough place to be. I don't think your children would think less of you in any way. I've been out of the workplace for just 8 years and know how much that limits me, I would think they could completely understand the position HE HAS PUT YOU IN. My father is 63 and facing having to retire this year. He has worked his a** off all of his life, but the company he has been with for 25 years is going under, and the sad reality is he knows he didn't stay current in the field he was in, times have changed and he didn't change enough with them...who would hire him now? He hasn't taken a sick day in 30+ years but he is no longer relevant and older. The man works in the telecommunications/networking field and doesn't know how to use email or text and can barely browse the internet! Please don't beat yourself up, or think badly about yourself!! I bet you raised your children well enough that they would understand and have great compassion for where you find yourself, you should consider turning to them for some support, even if it's just emotional support.

My parents divorced/remarried long ago and my mother passed a few years back, but I would hate to think my father would ever feel I would think less of him, in the situation he's in or yours. I love him very much and welcome this stage in our lives where I can support him like he has always supported me. I know that sometimes he feels like coming to me is a burden and who wants to burden their children? But I truly don't see it that way, maybe they wouldn't either. I hope you consider this, your post made me sad :( I'm sorry, I'm probably getting myself way more involved than is appropriate, but I couldn't help but feel you sound so alone...I guess I'm projecting my feelings into it here, sorry. Huge hugs to you from someone (sort of) in your shoes, and from a virtual grown daughter to all of the moms out there living with this.

philly172 posted 7/27/2013 11:20 AM

{{{hugs}}} I am sitting here with chills as I could have written your post as it's the EXACT way I feel..

I have mentally & physically checked out of the M.. I stay because.. well, I really have no where to go..

MY WH excuse for not remembering or trying to help is his having a stroke.. but I always call BS as he can't remember a detail from the A or something about the OW but he CAN remember that I treated him badly on XYZ day... selective memory much.

I no longer care to fight for the M & have resigned myself to the fact that it is over.. My WH too doesn't see it that way & he thinks by doing things for me (i.e. helping with house etc) that he is showing he cares..

best of luck to you!

LAFA posted 7/27/2013 12:59 PM

I know just how you feel. My WW is also a stroke survivor, and is either incapable or unwilling to acknowledge or address her EA.It is awkward and painful to live with this. At least I do know it is over, as he jumped off of a tall building, and the last thing that went through his mind was his a$$ho---. It is cold comfort, since I seem to be unable to shed the mental anguish. I hope to get through , but finding very difficult to leave it behind me. I wish you peace, however you might find it.

Edited for typos

[This message edited by LAFA at 11:51 AM, July 28th (Sunday)]

LAFA posted 7/27/2013 14:37 PM

Apologies, did not intend to t/j your thread.

sadandtrying posted 7/27/2013 15:20 PM

(((WO))) and all others for whom this thread rings true -

It is one huge thing to deal with the devastation of an A, then another devastation when we realize that our WS is unwilling or unable to be completely truthful, to really understand the damage their A caused, and to look inside and do the REAL work necessary for REAL healing and change.

Some times what they donít do is worse than what they did.

I agree^

WoundedOpus posted 7/27/2013 16:18 PM

No worries at all LAFA, t/j as needed, we all understand!

wanttofeelwhole posted 7/28/2013 07:24 AM


Your post put into words how I have been feeling. Even ast night, I told my FWH I was having a bed day, he asked if it was him, I said yes. He put his arm around me and kissed my head. Many of the words your FWH has said, mine has too. I love him, but I need to be a priority and obviously I still am not because he cannot give me what I need. I fortunately started working in April, I was a SAHM, and my children are amazing and busy so my life is fairly fulfilled. Additionally I am becoming more financially independent. Thank you for putting my feelings into words.

Please speak to an attorney in your areas that focuses on matrimonial actions. The laws in every state are different. But more so, the way judges interpret the statutes and the normal outcomes are not usually exactly what is written. In NY, you would be very well cared for, especially during the proceeding. As far as fault, unless you want it to humiliate him, ny was the last state to become a no fault divorce state in 2010. I'm sure Virginia has some form of "irretrievable breakdown," NYs no fault.

AJ1952 posted 7/29/2013 07:21 AM

Opus, your reply has been a great help to me. We went to a marriage councilor who emphasized that IT WAS NOT MY FAULT and I say this every day when I get up. I have no feelings or respect for this jerk although I'm still here and he knows it. I do things that make me happy such as volunteer work. I exercise, get regular medical care, get my hair done, and try to dress nice, not for him, but for myself. His stupidity is not going to ruin me. And all you others out there, hold your heads up high, you're the one with the integrity, he's the low-life.

WoundedOpus posted 7/30/2013 10:17 AM

AJ1952 - I come here so much for support so I'm glad something I said was able to help you in some way.

It is NOT your fault!

It's great that you're doing things for you, we should all be doing a lot more of that!!!

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