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MandoBando posted 7/26/2013 13:11 PM

So, after having told me he was thinking about divorce more and more, I dug deeper and asked what was triggering this. His answer, “the guilt, the shame”. Basically, he is not sure he will be able to move past the guilt he feels for hurting me and the shame he has for having engaged in the As.

I feel like he has done a 180. Previously, he was so into saving our marriage and working on himself and his issues, but now I feel like he has basically given up. When I asked him for reassurance, he told me he wasn't going anywhere and that he wanted to fix things. Maybe I am paranoid, but the tone of his voice and his body language just screamed indifference. Like he was going through the motions of saying the words he thought I wanted to hear, but there wasn't an ounce of conviction behind them. I feel like he is now looking to me to prove that I am worth being married to. To prove to him that he should stay. I feel like he is just waiting for me to say or do something to give him an excuse to go.

Before, he would text me randomly throughout the day with “I love you”s and “I miss you”s. Now, I get one or two word responses and it just feels like he is a million miles away. He would go out of his way to hug me, kiss me, just touch me, and now I am the one having to initiate almost all contact. Most days, it feels like he is avoiding me.

I have made the move of scheduling an IC appt for myself, which will be the first one in about two or three months, and I am working on getting us into a new MC. He goes to IC, but I think his C is pushing him to divorce. He has told me that she keeps bringing it up even though he has told her he wasn't interested. I am worried that she is getting to him. But if his mind was so dead set against D, how would there be any room for her in there?

How do I help him move past the guilt and shame that he says are driving him to consider D? I have forgiven him (really, it took a lot of work, thought, processing, but I really have) but that doesn’t seem to matter at all in this. Is it my job or should this be something he does himself? Am I at a point where I should be considering doing the 180? I am just so suddenly lost. I have been told that I should tell him to man up or get out, but I am not sure this situation is that black and white. Thoughts?

Jennifer99 posted 7/26/2013 13:13 PM

I could be way off base but it sounds like he is depressed and the IC isn't helping?

MandoBando posted 7/26/2013 13:19 PM

He is on ADs and just recently had his dose upped. He says IC helps, but I quite going to the C he is still seeing because I was getting nowhere with her.

Kelany posted 7/26/2013 13:25 PM

I hate to even say it, but could he be involved in another A? Or the previous AP have contacted him?

Our first year of R, my FWH was very indifferent and I got the whole shame spiel too. And then on DDay#2 I found out he had been pursuing other AP's though nothing long term. Only a ONS and a potential AP that did not reciprocate which he eventually was fired for. The whole time we were in therapy as was he and he was on meds. But he was just "meh" about everything.

This past year, we've been in REAL R and it's such a difference.

Spideysense posted 7/26/2013 13:25 PM

Please forgive me if I am out of line, I am now quite skeptical of everything due to my own experiences, so please take this with a grain of salt.
Are you sure his As are over? Are you sure that he doesn't want D? Or moreso, are you sure that the reason he is telling you he's thinking about it is the real reason?
I read your profile but not any other posts, are his actions prior to right now showing you he wants R? I ask because again I am a skeptic and the first thought that jumps to my mind is him saying "poor pitiful me, i am such an awful person, i betrayed my poor wife how can I ever make it up to her" and this is what he is using for reasoning, it makes him seem like the good guy or better guy at least versus simply saying, i want someone else or i dont want to be married to you etc. I know I have asked my H many times if he is behaving a certain way, doing/not doing something so that eventually i will say ENOUGH and then i will be the one that walks away not him. Is it possible that he is thinking D but trying to spin it so the reason is because he's so broken hearted and not because of whatever other reason it is?
Also, if he truly doesn't want to D, I don't think i could keep going to an IC that kept pushing that on me. My IC asked me one time if i could see what happened (my own A and discovery of it) as potentially a blessing to set me free from a M i wasn't happy in. I shut that down immediately, said i choose my M, she never went down that path again, maybe at the very least he should consider a new IC?
Again this is all said to you gently. Good luck to you.

Jennifer99 posted 7/26/2013 13:26 PM

Maybe tell him chatting with a new C isn't cheating? Doesn't have to commit?

Jennifer99 posted 7/26/2013 13:28 PM

Mando & Samantha - if you brought up the ? to someone like this and asked if this was their effort to exit, or was the A an exit A because they just didn't want to be there and they said "no" would you believe them? How would you dig a little deeper?

Jennifer99 posted 7/26/2013 13:29 PM

Samantha & Spidey sorry.

MandoBando posted 7/26/2013 13:33 PM

SB, I have asked him flat out if he was having another A because this behavior looks so familiar. He answer was a WTF?! NO! And I do believe that.

Spidey, this is a total change from the way he had been acting. I am wondering if this is his way of trying to force my hand. Trying to get me to pull the trigger. I haven't asked that question yet. He use to have a pity party problem but it had seemed resolved. This looks like someone is throwing another party, but I don't know what to do to address it. I always thought he had to be the one and I don't think he wants to fight it right now.

Before trying a new IC, he wants to see how my appt with my new IC goes. I think he is just trying to put me off until he can figure out what to do.

This all feels so hopeless. I was so encouraged before by the way he seemed to be getting his shit together and by the man he was becoming. He really was becoming an awesome husband! Now I feel like he is backsliding and I don't know how to help him help himself.

Kelany posted 7/26/2013 13:38 PM

I asked my FWH several times if his affairs were his way of showing he wanted out of the marriage. If so, I had no problem setting him free. He emphatically denied it.

however, during our false R, I *knew* instinctively that things were not right. There was way more than I didn't know, but I just couldn't figure out WHAT. I only knew of 1 AP.

Imagine my surprise when DDay 2 happened, he was fired for sexual harassment, 3more AP's came out and 2 more intended AP's that refused him. I knew by his apathy, his denial, anger, refusal to work on us for real. Ocne full disclosure happened only THEN could we really work on us.

My FWH was the KING of "woe is me, I suck, I'm the most horrible person in the world". Our IC called him on it, told him he had a victim mentality. He was so angry about that, but she nailed it. And he finally realized that once DDay2 happened and he was no longer hiding stuff.

However, reading Mando's post, the first thing that screamed out at me was his reasons are not what he says they are. I'd be digging like crazy to find out what he was hiding.

Kelany posted 7/26/2013 13:41 PM

Now I feel like he is backsliding and I don't know how to help him help himself

Gently, you can't do this. He has to figure it out himself. And it's the scariest thing in the world, letting go of that feeling of control over helping them.

Are you in MC together?

MandoBando posted 7/26/2013 14:01 PM

SB, I figured that was the case and it makes me bonkers.

We went through the usual trickle truth for 4 months during which I found out about two other As outside the one I caught him in. My gut finally left me alone after the last confession came out. Lately, my internal lie detector has been ringing again. His last AP still works in the unit next to his, and they do occasionally pass each other in the halls, but he has been very good about telling me whenever he encounters her and the last time he made a point to be outside and unavailable until she left. I don't think there is another A, or that he has restarted his last one, but I do think there are things he isn't telling me. He has stated before that he is terrified to tell me certain things and he doesn't know why. I have begged him to try talking to me and he promised he would, but I still think he is holding back.

Searchingforhope posted 7/26/2013 14:02 PM

Mando..I just went through this same thing with my H. I thought things were going relatively good. I felt I had pretty much forgiven and was moving towards a good place with him.

(See my profile for story on July 8 update)..

His IC was giving him the worst advice. She was awful. She told him he must not have ever loved me..REALLY? 30 yrs with me and he never loved me???

His IC has been married 4 times FYI..that to me is a big red FLAG!

My H was having a horrible time with the guilt and he wanted to run away.

What I needed was an H that would help me. He caused it, KWIM?

Anyway, after 30 hours of being apart, he came back, begging for me to take him back.

It was like he went into a fog again..this time without an OW.

I feel for you and hope your H snaps out of it.

But you need to stay strong and act like you will be just fine with or without him.


doesitgetbetter posted 7/26/2013 14:07 PM

How do I help him move past the guilt and shame that he says are driving him to consider D

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that you can do to help him move past his own guilt and shame. When you've done something that is so horrible to another human being that you supposedly love, it takes a toll on you, a very deep toll. No words that you can say, no comforting hugs that you can give, no reassurance that you can possibly come up with will help him get through that guilt and shame he feels. He has to do it himself. His IC can help a lot, his own introspection, his own self healing book reading, but it has to be from him.

It took my H many years of hard work to work through his guilt, and I can tell you that he STILL feels guilt and shame to some degree, and it's been almost 6 years from DDay for us with no additional DDay's in between.

Spideysense posted 7/26/2013 14:41 PM

Again I mean this as gently as possible...he has told you he is afraid to come to you with things because of your reaction, because you will be upset, because it might be a tough talk for cannot necessarily believe him when he says there is not another A, or his reason for considering D. He could still be telling you its because of the shame and guilt because that is a feeling or behavior that will make you take pity upon him, it doesnt mean it is the truth.
Only you know if you can believe him when he says theres nobody else, no A on the radar etc. However my alram belles would be ringing off the hook since this is a sudden change to how he was behaving. (there may be depression related issues that explain this, but i always think worst case first).
Secondly, how does you going to see a new IC for yourself bear any relevance on whether he is getting what he needs from his IC? Thats neither here nor there and sounds like an excuse to me. Maybe IC is pushing him to D, maybe thats because hes telling IC thats what hes leaning towards.
maybe there isnt a new A, but something has triggered this change, maybe its jsut cotnact with FOW, or maybe its because he sees there is a new AP possibility, something made him change and something is setting off your alarm bells too.

If you truly believe that he is just so ashamed and guilt ridden then my answer is the same as others above, YOU CANNOT fix that. You cannot love him back into happiness, he has to do that on his own.

@jennnifer-Im sorry i did ask my H that question and he did say no numerous times and i dont know if i believe him or not. Some days I do, some days i dont. I continue to watch his actions. I continue to make it very clear to him how i feel, what i need, what i am willing to do for him, etc. At this point I wait for it to get better or the other shoe to drop, but regardless I will know that i am doing the best in me. If i have an aha moment i will share

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