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PhantomLimb posted 7/26/2013 20:14 PM

I've noticed over the last few days that there have been several posts from BSs with remorseless WSs. In a lot of cases it sounds like DDay came as a complete surprise and the WS turned into Mr. Hyde: the "perfect" husband and father one min and then, after DDay, this stranger who doesn't step up to the plate, can't decide what they want, etc etc.

I'm curious how many of you had a remorseless WS, you filed or otherwise took care of *you* in the wake of things... and then had the WS try to "come back" at some point way way way way too late or after you had already gotten well past wanting R for yourself.

What was it like to tell them no? Why do you think they thought they could?

Fooled Me Twice posted 7/26/2013 20:27 PM

Mine has been completely remorseless, but late last year started to make gestures on being friendly/getting back together. Honestly, I'm not quite sure wtf he wanted? We had already had our pendent lite hearing and he suddenly became nicer, sent me a dozen red roses for my birthday, dd came home with homemade cookies, asking to spend time with the 3 of us....I have a feeling due to a couple of other things that him and OW were either broken up or perhaps he was just fishing. (They are still/back together now). Either way he got nothing from me. I acted as if I never got the flowers - no comment, nothing. When handed the cookies, I said, "ohh, won't the kids at school like this treat!" You get the idea. It was way too late. Far too much damage had been done and infidelity is a deal breaker for me. End of discussion.

My thoughts on it were more of a snort - like, "huh all this shit and you're still not happy. What a f'ing idiot. "

Nature_Girl posted 7/26/2013 20:29 PM

My STBX faked remorse after I kicked him out & had him served. Only he didn't fake it to me, only to other people. He cried to people in our church, our pastors, and telling them how sorry he was, he loved me, he wanted to reconcile, he was desperate.

Interestingly, he didn't bother to contact me with these same sentiments. That's because he was faking it. The pastors & people at church, except one, quickly caught on to STBX's bullshit act & crocodile tears and called him on it. I'm told that when he realized he'd been caught he stopped the tears, stood up & screamed 'FUCK YOU' and stormed out.

He continued to meet with the one church person, claiming remorse & bewilderment. This continued for a while, with the person believing everything STBX said. He even went so far as to try and fool me into meeting with STBX without our lawyer's present.

Little did he know that while STBX was crying on his shoulder STBX was registering with eharmony, match, and so forth. Plus he was continuing to have a relationship with at least one of the OW. Hmmmmm, doesn't sound like remorse to me.

STBX was only ever a bullshit artist. His remorse was faked as long as he thought it would gain him an advantage.

ButterflyGirl posted 7/26/2013 20:49 PM

Dday September 2012. False R (trying to get us both back at the same time) October 2012. Filed divorce November 2012. He fished quite a few times after that, but most likely only when he was having troubles with MOW or the 21-year-old twink. When he wasnt fishing, he was a monster for sure. Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hude for sure.. His last fishing attempt was flowers on Valentines Day 2013.

I called him on his bullshit every time after the false R. He didn't care which one of us fell for it, he just didn't want to lose all of us. Lucky for him, MOW is one stupid naive slut who believes everything he says..

Honestly, it felt great to turn him down for all the right reasons. He wanted automatic forgiveness and back to fairy tale land with me taking care of the home and his sluts on the side..

Why did he think the fishing would work? Probably his NPD. He thinks he's hot shit, and to him, I MUST be wishing he would return to me. Uh, double barf..

I did and do want my fairy tale family life, but it will ALWAYS be too late now. His mask fell off, and I will never be able to unsee the true him..

Williesmom posted 7/26/2013 20:56 PM

My D was final in late 2008. In spring 2010, he came to my house and told me that he wanted to get back together, because he now knows how to be the husband that I need him to be.
I think it just finally sunk in to him that I really was done with him, and he panicked. He was hysterically crying on his knees, with his arms around my waist begging me.

Yeah, I was totally done with his shit. My life is now drama free, and I love it.

dmari posted 7/26/2013 21:41 PM

Great question PhantomLimb! I've wondered the same thing. I know that at this point (almost 9 months since dday), even after all the crazy shit my stbx has put me through, if he were to suddenly become remorseful, I think I would be willing to hear what he had to say. I feel embarrassed to admit that.

So those who have said "hell no", what were factors in your decision? Did enough time pass for you to get stronger? Had you moved on to another relationship? Was your WS totally manipulative? Did it feel good to finally see/hear remorse?

Nature_Girl posted 7/26/2013 21:59 PM

I knew he was a danger to the children. No way would or could I ever ever ever reconcile.

SBB posted 7/26/2013 22:01 PM

It hasn't happened over here but I know what my response would be.

There are no fish in this pond. This pond has no water. Fuck off.

We all play the 'what ifs' for a time. I think most of them try Hoovering at one stage or another. I'm "lucky" in that it happened to me 8 weeks after DD and only lasted throughout a 3m False R. I'm always shocked to hear that it happens even years after D.

Yuck.

@ dmari, For me it is a case of "I see you now - I cannot unsee you". The fucking around isn't the worst of it - it is the betrayals beyond infidelity, the venom, the underhanded things he has done. Those are the reasons why I will never again have him in my life.

My only hope now is that he wakes up in time to not continue to fuck up my girls. I want him to have True Remorse so that he fixes WTFever is wrong with him so he can be a healthy father for them. I doubt I will ever stop hoping for that but I also won't be holding my breath for it.

Williesmom posted 7/26/2013 22:20 PM

Answering the second question: I couldn't try again. After the first thousand D-days, I just didn't have it in me to try one more time, even if he really was sincere.

He had enough chances to be the man that I needed, and I realized that he was never the man that I thought he was.

I would rather live the rest of my life alone than live one more day with him in my life.

PhantomLimb posted 7/26/2013 22:24 PM

There are no fish in this pond. This pond has no water. Fuck off.

Can I borrow this?

Nature_Girl posted 7/26/2013 22:24 PM

I would rather live the rest of my life alone than live one more day with him in my life.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vulcanized posted 7/27/2013 04:08 AM

Mine only did the whiny cry baby dance for sympathy. To other people. Mean old W left him. FTG, cry to your momma, I don't want to hear it.

XH cried to my BIL, who reamed him, but good. XH then ignored his bro, acted so, so, so disheartened, but continued to do the exact same thing that landed him in the same spot.

If XH came around, he'd get the rolled up newspaper in the face.

ButterflyGirl posted 7/27/2013 06:19 AM

There are no fish in this pond. This pond has no water. Fuck off.

Amen, to this and everything else SBB said..

So those who have said "hell no", what were factors in your decision? Did enough time pass for you to get stronger?

I don't think enough time had really passed for me to feel stronger, but I acted stronger. I'd read enough articles right after Dday to know that begging for them back doesn't work. THEY have to work for it. I was willing to work on some marital issues, but the fact that he took the affair underground proved to me that nothing would be fixing this marriage while he was still lying to me.. The trust died that day, never to return..

Had you moved on to another relationship?

Another romantic relationship? No.. Did I grow better and stronger relationships with my family, friends and especially with my kids? Absolutely. When I gave up trying to "save us" and "fix him," I had time to grow in so many other areas with so many people. I've never felt closer to my kids..

Was your WS totally manipulative?

Yeah..

Did it feel good to finally see/hear remorse?

Every time he tried to say sorry, I would follow up with questions as to why, what would be different, etc.. He would always stammer, and then go back to the verbally abusing me.. I don't think he has shown any true remorse yet..

Even though I know we are done for good, sometimes I really wish he would genuinely say sorry for all the hell he has and still is putting me through.. I think the NPD means I'm never gonna get that, and I'm just gonna have to live without.

If he ever did try again, I would always think it's because unicorn land needs a refill..

ButterflyGirl posted 7/27/2013 06:39 AM

PhantomLimb, trying to analyze this a little more, I'm wondering if you are questioning what you would do if he did turn around right now and start begging for you back..

I see from your tagline that it's been 2 months since you've had contact with him. I would say that's awesome if you have kept it up that long!! I know it's so hard, and I'm guessing you are probably wishing he would break it. I think some people feel a blow to their self-esteem when their WH doesn't come crawling back, but I really hope you are feeling strong and brave right now. You KNOW that the only way this would ever be healthy is him crawling back on his hands and knees and SHOWING you the ways he has been/is going to change..

My caution would be that if he does come crawling back, make sure it's not within the month/day/hour/minute the OW kicks him to the curb.. You are NOT a backup plan. He has to really want you for you, not just because he doesn't have anything else going for him..

Big hugs..

myperfectlife posted 7/27/2013 10:04 AM

My WS did finally turn around right after we decided to D. He came out of the fog the next day and went NC.
I had not filed yet, so I gave it a few more weeks. In those weeks he has shown change and definite remorse.
My challenge was asking myself: what do *I* want?
Do I want the marriage I had? It was good-at times amazing.
My therapist asked me last week what my goals for marriage were and my #1 was to feel safe. She asked me if I felt safe in the marriage.
I was shocked to hear myself say "no" (even before the affair). But it was the truth, and honestly brought me to tears.
Couple that with the affair-and the dynamics that R would bring. I realized that even though he was remorseful and making effort, I don't think I can be a healthy person in R with him- maybe not ever.
So the "what if" game...if he does come crawling back to you, then you have the power. Power is so important when you feel rejected.
It's nice to just have the power to say yes or no.
When I finally had that power I realized the answer was most likely "no".
(As an aside-you do have power even though he has not crawled back. You have the power every day to move on with your life if you so desire. That is something you should think about. He doesn't have to crawl back for you to say no. You can say it right now.)
(((hugs)))

[This message edited by myperfectlife at 10:07 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]

solus sto posted 7/27/2013 11:37 AM

Nope. Remorseless is remorseless.

I found the info at outofthefog.net very useful. That, and what I learned in IC-- and from Mr. Trac-Fone's IC.

If R were on his agenda, ever, there would have at least been gestures toward remorse. While it still mattered.

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:38 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]

lostmommy posted 7/27/2013 11:55 AM

Nope. My XH never tried to feel remorse. In fact, to this day he denies that what he did was an affair - the marriage was over in his head. Whatever. It's all sunshine and rainbows in unicorn land. Now that he's married to OW, he's her problem. From what I understand though, my XH's father is constantly yelling at them to stop fighting because that's all they do. It makes me smile to hear that.

If for some reason he ever decided to try to come back into my life, he'd be barking up the wrong tree. His actions and words from the day he left going forward killed any love that I once felt for him. I could never forget what he has said and done for the past two years. I can move on, but only with him out of my life. He's no longer a part of my inner circle. And honestly? My friends have told me they have never seen me as happy as I've been these past two years. Not that I don't have my moments, but overall I'm happy as a pig in shit.

PhantomLimb posted 7/27/2013 11:57 AM

I was shocked to hear myself say "no" (even before the affair). But it was the truth, and honestly brought me to tears.
Couple that with the affair-and the dynamics that R would bring. I realized that even though he was remorseful and making effort, I don't think I can be a healthy person in R with him- maybe not ever.

This is where I'm at, too. I wanted R so badly the first month... By the second month I started to realize too much time had passed and he left me with such a mess on my hands that there was no turning back now. I would never feel safe.

Since then I've been working with my IC on fully "saying goodbye" (as he puts it) and working on myself.

The other day I was on gmail and he magically showed up on gchat (after not seeing him there at all since dDay). Took me about 2 secs to block him. A friend from his area code called from a number I didn't recognize the other day and I rejected the call. Just the idea of talking to him or seeing his face gives me a panic attack.

I think it's a shame. I think it's a waste. But I would be unable to R.

That's why I asked the question. I've been sort of objectively fascinated by how much the 180 made me do a 180! I have no doubt now that had he wanted R right after DDay I would have tried but, ultimately, I bet I would have left.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:59 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]

hurtbs posted 7/27/2013 14:04 PM

Oh dear god no. In fact, I'm pretty sure that nearly 2 years post D I'm still responsible for all bad things that happen to him in his life.

Ashland13 posted 7/27/2013 15:49 PM

Yes for me, a mix of Butterfly girl's and hurt bs's replies.

Peckerwood/Perv believes that all of his life's problems stem from me and he believes that I'm stupid.

From a psychology POV, it is believed that the Jekyl and Hyde syndrome Peckerwood/Perv displays-I don't want to generalize so will mention him-is because he has a passive aggression problem and when he is in my presence, he is kind of like a little kid and not daring enough to "defy" me-as he sees, that is.

When he is away from me, he hides behind electronic screens and spews all of his resentments and beefs and out come his truest colors.

I've been told this is sometimes called "aggressive aggressive" when he isn't near me, by more than one counselor, where he tucks himself away to avoid conflict in whatever way possible, in my presence...but again changes in huge ways when he is not physically nearby.

FWIW, sometimes the flip- flopping may be from actually making his own decisions, where I am likely to just decide something so that I can move on. Now we are seeing him and me both as our own people and no one is used to that.

Peckerwood/Perv faked being remorseless when he was broken up with OW and had nowhere to go and also when he was still sitting on that fence.