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EmotionalFool posted 7/28/2013 08:40 AM

I am feeling so lost.. so damn lost

I discuss my IC sessions with CL. There are multiple reasons for As. But i was discussing with him about enmeshment. I told him that POSs shared their sad stories and I got enmeshed.

CL blew up saying I was minimizing and not taking responsibility. I clarified that this is not the only reason but its one of the contributing factors. Maybe I did not word it properly. But he thought I was blaming them for sharing sad stories.

Anyways he got really angry and said "I dont understand why we discuss this. I am not interested in talking to u. All my focus is on not having any feelings for u and u mean nothing to me." which nearly crushed me.

He is just putting up more walls and I have no idea what to do about it. When he is doing bit better, I feel bit relieved. He seems to hate that too.

I dont know how my life has come to this. Its not easy to face any of this. He just wants me to say "You meant nothing to me and I just used you. Had no feelings for u at all" Sometimes I get so tired and ask him if I just say that so it will make him feel better but thats just not the truth.

I understand how difficult it must be for him to make sense of it. Hell even I cant make sense of it.

They say build your life. build your future. Gosh I have no freaking clue how to do that. My best aim is to just get through the day without causing any new hurts.

My life should mean more than this. I know I made the horrible choices but really I just did not put it together that time. That was a separate life somehow .. aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

where do i steer my life to?? My past is a mess. When I look at it I am stunned/shocked/depressed. What the fuck I was doing?I am so freaking clueless.

Life just seems too long and I have no idea what to do with it.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 8:52 AM, July 28th (Sunday)]

isadora posted 7/28/2013 10:37 AM

What do you hope to gain by discussing your IC sessions with CL?
You may be peeling back layers, but you are not there yet.

IMO you need to focus on you for awhile and not searching for the words or reason that will make CL better. He has to heal himself , you have to fix you. You are overwhelmed because your focus is too broad.

Are you dealing with this lost feeling in IC?

Eta: didn't mean to post the weird face. I'm posting from my phone and don't always see what I am doing.

[This message edited by isadora at 12:55 PM, July 28th (Sunday)]

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 7/28/2013 12:06 PM

Enmeshment, hmmm.

All the psycho babble is well and good when you are trying to work on changing your behaviors. They become a downfall when you are looking for an excuse for them.

I think the two of you are looking for different things, this the frustration. You keep finding terminology that will explain away what you did. Not your fault because you are enmeshed or codependent or whatever. "I couldn't help it because...".

He is looking for ownership. "I did this because I was selfish". "I did this because I was only thinking of me and not you". "I did this because I felt I was getting what I needed despite how much I knew it would hurt you". He is looking for you to say that you knew what you were doing was wrong and at that time what you wanted was more important than anything else. Ownership. Plain and simple.

Once you have that, it's great to begin finding out what drove the bus and start fixing those problems. But it just seems to me that you keep searching for things to explain your behavior away. You need to be able to face the fact that you were (for lack of a better term) a straight up bitch to him. Once you can accept that, you can then move on to all the psycho babble and repair those things.

You can go to him today and tell him that you own it and you were a monster and that you are working on becoming a better person. But he will know when you genuinely feel that's true. He will feel the difference when you truly believe something yourself. If you can let go of trying to find some explanation to make everything alright, you can begin to move in a forward direction rather than spinning in circles.

uncertainone posted 7/28/2013 12:35 PM

What does "enmeshment" mean to you?

I can see CL's reaction. It's a word used to describe a co-dependent reliance I honestly don't think you possess. I don't see you as the "you complete me" kinda girl, EF.

More like you amuse me. You could be fun and if listening to your little woes accomplishes that then I'm in.

EF. Are you somehow searching for what you feel is an "acceptable" reason that involves a far less "purposeful" motive and machination?

You seem to feel if you knew exactly what you were doing and how to accomplish it then it's so much worse than guileless stumbling into it.

Well, it all depends. If you want to fix it knowledge and control are much better tools, wouldn't you agree? Maybe stop looking for weakness and explore controlling your strengths. Loaded weapons in the hands of a rank amateur is a precarious situation.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 12:36 PM, July 28th (Sunday)]

whatnow999 posted 7/28/2013 13:45 PM

Have you considered that maybe you are blaming the OM too much, and yourself not enough? I've always found it interesting when people here add prefixes to their partners (granted its usually a BS in pain saying something like NPD, SA, BPD, etc and not a WW), but still. Why do you always use the label POS in front of OM?

Do you think in that case it should be attached to your label... as in POS fWW?

They were not the ones betraying your relationship. You were. Just like I was the one betraying my relationship. I think you should start to own the decisions. This wasn't a one time mistake, or even one person. Maybe your BH is frustrated by the fact that you seem to be blaming what happened on external factors?

I understand the struggle between honesty and not hurting your BS. Very much, but also understand to him. It has to be confusing... you were so comfortable being dishonest for so long, and now you are uncomfortable saying you didn't have feelings for the OM? Really? I think what he probably struggles with is feeling second place to the OM (and in his case, I don't blame him). Do you think maybe this makes him feel like he is in second place again?

The best advice I'd have is to sometimes take a step back. Trying to solve things immediately doesn't' always work... you need to take a breather and just work on the relationship now. Maybe don't bring up the As yourself, and just work on your marriage with CL today. And then once some progress is had there, then go back and work on discussing the As.

EmotionalFool posted 7/28/2013 13:48 PM


Thanks for the reply. I discuss IC sessions with him because I feel that
way I can share my progress with him.

@WOES and UO
wow!!! it feels like you had a live broadcast of our argument today.

Whatever you mentioned was said by CL today word by word including the word monster.

Here is the thing. Isnt this fact already established? Whats expected? That I should accept he never mattered to me at all?? Which is just not the case. If I say that yes I was selfish or the other things you mentioned, how do I explain it without these behavioral
patterns? I think I am missing something here.


EF. Are you somehow searching for what you feel is an "acceptable" reason that involves a far less "purposeful" motive and machination?

You seem to feel if you knew exactly what you were doing and how to accomplish it then it's so much worse than guileless stumbling into it.

Yup. Thats how I feel. And there is a reason for it.

I did not see myself that way. I had some ideas about morals and values and I truly believed in them. Then somewhere down the line I just lost the path. And it did affect me a lot. So much so that I completely stopped doing anything for me.Stopped laughing, enjoying life. Mostly isolated myself and watched TV. (totally opposite of normal me)

After Dday, slowly I realized what exactly happened and how it affected me, I was shocked.

If it was that purposeful or cold blooded, it shouldnt have bothered me at all. right? If i was really a monster or cold blooded bitch, it shouldnt even affect me now right? Why should any of it affect me now if I knew exactly what I was doing and doing it anyways?? But it does. I have sleepless nights thinking about. My heart races realizing the horror of it. Its something so different than what I idolized.

So how does it all fit?? Why it bothers me now if it was that calculated and manipulative? And thats the reason I have such a hard time with this. I keep looking for some sort of explanation which helps to put it all together.

Again maybe I am missing something.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 1:53 PM, July 28th (Sunday)]

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 7/28/2013 15:07 PM

Isnt this fact already established?

To him? Yes. To you? No, not if you are desperately grasping at straws to find a way to make it seem ok. Why is it so difficult for you to own the fact that you behaved like a bitch or a monster? It doesn't need to be a permanent part of your character. It's something that can be changed with work. But the first step to healing a problem is realizing and accepting that you have one. Accepting the fact that you made those decisions yourself, not some disorder that made you do it goes a long way. Accepting the fact that you have done some horrible things doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. It can just make you a broken one.

That I should accept he never mattered to me at all?? Which is just not the case.

Being a WW myself, I believe that CL mattered you. What I am saying is that during that time, he didn't matter enough. What I mean by that is that you were getting something from your A's. Something that meant more to you than your M at that time. And that's what was important, that's what mattered most. And that hurts CL to core because he went into this M with the thought that it was him that mattered. Only to find out he was wrong. And that is what you need to accept. That during that time in your life he wasn't important enough.

Now you could have been wrong about that. God knows I was! And so the work begins.

If i was really a monster or cold blooded bitch, it shouldnt even affect me now right? Why should any of it affect me now if I knew exactly what I was doing and doing it anyways?? But it does.

Why wouldn't being a monster or cold blooded bitch affect you now? Of course it would, because you don't want to be that. But you were. That wasn't some other person. You didn't have an outer body experience. HT and I had a MC session when I told our MC that I felt like it was some other person at the time. He looked me in the eyes and said 'but it was you'. That was an 'aha' moment for me. I cried in HT's arms afterwords and he felt my remorse was real.

So I will say to you. You did that. Not a disorder. You. You made a decision to lie and to sleep with another man all on your own. No one and no thing forced you to do it. You had the power to say no. You had the power all along to control your actions. You chose not to. You chose to lie...consciously. You made that decision. And it is up to you to own it.

uncertainone posted 7/28/2013 15:35 PM

It can just make you a broken one.

Ugh. Another description I hate. Beyond simplistic. I'm just broken. Blech!!!

EF. I have parts of me that don't make me a good candidate for manning a suicide hotline. Those same parts enable me to be a fearless advocate for you in a courtroom or boardroom. Neither bad or good. The value gets assigned in the choice of usage

EmotionalFool posted 7/28/2013 16:46 PM

Thanks WOES and UO. Lot of food for thought.

EmotionalFool posted 7/29/2013 05:18 AM

Okay .. help me out here. Because there is something that you can see, CL can see but I cant.

At this point I am not even doing this for him but mostly for me. Its like my whole world came crumbling down, all my beliefs, my ideas, values, what I thought about relationships everything. I am still struggling to really understand what the hell happened.

If i go through what happened like a third person, I can understand what kind of picture it must be portraying. It does look like a pretty manipulative, monstrous and cold blooded thing.

When dday happened, CL was so angry, crying, not talking to me. I had no clue how to handle it. He had read my mails and chats which pretty much summed everything. I had no intention of discussing it any further or even filling in gaps. I just saw doing that as putting salt on the wound. So I preferred not doing it.

"Affairs", "Infidelity" are not the terms that I searched. I searched "How to get the trust back" which lead me to pretty lame articles. But it kept redirecting to affairs. I was so deluded that I did not read those. I did not even know the word infidelity. (English is not my first/second language) I saw CL searching on this word so I started searching. My first reaction was "affairs?? really??" Then I kept reading and reading .. i was shocked .. devastated .. I couldnt sleep couldnt eat. CL kept asking me to tell the details. i found SI .. read "how to help your spouse heal" The one thing that kept striking me was "If you hide details, you are manipulating." It hit me so bad. The only thing that kept ringing in my head was "I do not want to manipulate CL". I gathered courage and told him the details I was sure he wont ever find out. Every new detail felt like "This is it .. he is going to walk away"

Every morning I wake up and there is a video that runs in my head like the movie 50 first dates. I wake up with such a heavy feeling.

If I was really calculative and manipulative my reaction to all this should have been "Meh.. I am sorry" Why is it hitting me so hard? why cant I make sense of this?

All the psycho babble is well and good when you are trying to work on changing your behaviors. They become a downfall when you are looking for an excuse for them.

You seem to feel if you knew exactly what you were doing and how to accomplish it then it's so much worse than guileless stumbling into it.

These two statements are driving me crazy.

I want to move forward. I want to live my life with CL. I dont live my life with this heavy black cloud following me everywhere.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 5:22 AM, July 29th (Monday)]

EmotionalFool posted 7/29/2013 06:06 AM

Forgive me if I am rambling ..

But you see I havent faced any trauma as such.. Nice loving family .. no struggle really .. Why the hell would i create such a pile of shit for myself??

And oh well if I am struggling so much .. it boggles my mind thinking what CL must be going through

I just want this nightmare to end..

EmotionalFool posted 8/2/2013 07:12 AM

I have sat on this thread.  
I realized I m not searching for reasons for him. But more for me. He anyways thinks what he thinks.
I have such a hard time accepting that was me. How could I do that?? There has to be some explanation, some logical reason. Some trap which I couldn’t avoid. Few months back I did realize that it was *me* all along. Still I kept looking for “why”s.  I always reached a point where I had a choice. That frightened me and I looked some more.
And then accepting I did not really care about anybody else. It was all deliberate and cold blooded .. it crushes me everytime I think about it. Ever felt you don’t wanna be in your body?? Like you are stuck with yourself? Gosh I am so tired. I was at a point some time back where I though if I did not have to face CL all the time I would be ok. I think I have crossed that point. I was still trying to find a way to be ok with myself. Looks like there isn’t. After posting this thread I stopped explaining my actions to myself. Or trying to make sense of it. And I am overwhelmed with all the emotions.  Last few days have been so tiring .. so tiring ..
How can I ask him to be with me if I struggle to be with me?? There was another thread here which mentioned about wanting to divorce bcz of hurt. I feel the same way. I am so clueless how are we gonna recover. And we have to RECOVER. That makes me so angry .. so angry ..
I hate this .. every bit of it.. what do I now?? How can ever come back from being a heartless monster?

SurprisinglyOkay posted 8/2/2013 07:47 AM

How can ever come back from being a heartless monster?

By doing the work to make yourself safe. For you and others.

You are stuck with yourself. Even if your marriage folds, make yourself safe.

Do the work. Get better.

I have been a heartless monster for most of my life. I am getting better, slowly but surely.

I am not proud of my past, but I KNOW that I am changing, not for Chicho, not for my kids, but for me. So I can meet my eye in the mirror, and be okay with what I see.

All of my relationships are improving, because I have some acceptance and humility.

tired girl posted 8/2/2013 08:15 AM

And we have to RECOVER


You have to recover.

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