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Am I too tough?

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Stronger4it posted 7/28/2013 11:41 AM

My bottom line for reconciliation is NC. No more lies. Genuine remorse. He has, in the last 8 months had 'sporadic' contact with her. Phone calls and texts. He says its not a big deal and not very often. I get upset, angry and we fight every time I catch him.

WS wants to know why there can't be a middle ground. His therapist says rebuilding cant be about just my needs. And a mutual, neutral friend thinks that my boundries may be too strict and that perhaps I should let him remain friends with her. At least phone once in a while.

Am I setting him up for failure because I'm too hard assed?

We are taking a three month break, or a trial separation. I guess to see if we have it in us to rebuild. During this time he has seen her. She told me it was none of my business if they were sleeping together.

Wondering now if I want him back.

hurtbs posted 7/28/2013 11:54 AM

What?! Seriously?!

These are both very minimum, basic tenents of reconciliation

#1 - he ends the affair 100% and all contact with his affair partner.

#2 - he stops lying.

These are incredibly generous terms. Asking that he be allowed to continue the affair 'sometimes' (that's what being friends with your A partner is) is not conducive to reconciliation.

No, it's not all about your needs, but you need to feel safe. Him ocntinuing to carry on with the A partner will not allow you to feel safe.

ETA: Your mutual friend should not be involved in this conversation unless s/he is somehow super skilled in MC and experienced. Did his IC suggest that he be allowed to keep contact with his AP? If so, then his IC is an idiot.

[This message edited by hurtbs at 11:55 AM, July 28th (Sunday)]

LAFA posted 7/28/2013 11:56 AM

It is just begging for further heartbreak for you if No Contact is not maintained. If he is too selfish to give you NC, he is not much of a candidate for reconciliation.

Stronger4it posted 7/28/2013 12:16 PM

As I was typing out the original post the answers, the obvious answers, came to me. Still, it was great to be heard.

I was milling about in the Just found out forum (really? I know it's been 8 months). I read a helpful post about '20/20 what I should have done when IJFO'. Turns out I've been doing it all wrong. Though I didn't find SI until about 4 months ago. I have been slowly implementing the 180.

I'm slow because I've been allowing cake eating for the sake of our DD. A family dinner only meant I sent him off to his friends with a full stomach. And I hated my self after. My fragile self cannot take the hating. So it needs to be better directed. My fragile self needs to be respected and only I can make that happen.

One day DD will look back at her happy family and realize it was a fake. And I don't want to be a part of that lie anymore.

sisoon posted 7/28/2013 13:12 PM

R is not all about my needs, but for my W's IC to say that would be ridiculous.

I set certain requirements. If my W didn't agree to meet them, I wouldn't R, but no one is forcing her to agree to meet them. (NC was one of them, along with honesty, transparency, IC, MC, and some special needs, like initiating sex and arranging dates.)

I read you to set the same sort of requirement - NC or no R. You're not forcing him to comply - it's entirely up to him.

If an A is like an addiction, ending the A means not having access to the substance your H abused. I can't comprehend how your H's IC doesn't realize that.

In theory, the cure for alcoholism is for the former alcoholic to drink socially. That almost never happens IRL. If your H can't tear himself totally away from ow, he can't commit totally to your M, and he can't R.

Sheesh, this part is of R is real simple.

uncertainone posted 7/28/2013 13:23 PM

His therapist says rebuilding cant be about just my needs

Fidelity in a relationship is an individual need? I thought it was a cornerstone requirement for any relationship whether open or monogamous. Fidelity to the agreement. Anything that isn't fractures and breaks it.

An odd way to connect those two concepts for a therapist.

sparklezombie posted 7/28/2013 14:30 PM

You're not being too tough at all. My WH didn't understand why he couldn't be friends with a woman he saw while we were separated. Our MC looked at him like he had grown 3 heads. She told him that having any contact with any other women that I didn't know would be detrimental to our rebuilding of trust.

If he wants to be with you, he can't be with her or contact her. If that's your boundary (and I think it sounds healthy), then stick to it.

hotcoffee posted 7/28/2013 14:47 PM

Middle ground? That's ridiculous. Your WH and his therapist should choke on their cake. You are right to question their BS.

Stronger4it posted 7/28/2013 14:52 PM

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

For the record, I don't think his IC was suggesting that he be able to maintain contact with his girlfriend. I just think that WS was grasping at straws to justify his continual contact with her. Kind of like "See? Even my therapist says I should be able to get what I want as we rebuild." And what he wants is sort of a middle ground.

He chose to fix the problems in his life by having a 2.5 year affair. And look where it got us. How 'bout we do it my way for a little while?

And by a little while I mean FOREVER!


myperfectlife posted 7/28/2013 14:59 PM

He chose to fix the problems in his life by having a 2.5 year affair. And look where it got us. How 'bout we do it my way for a little while?

And by a little while I mean FOREVER!

Love it.
NC is the very FIRST step toward R. Without it, nothing else can happen.
Which is why I have an appointment with my attorney tomorrow.

StrongerOne posted 7/28/2013 16:54 PM

Did the IC tell you this, or is that what your WH reported? If you are hearing it only from your WH, then you should assume it is a misunderstanding of the ICs actual words, at best, and quite possibly just a lie.

And, what everyone else said about your WH going NC with his AP. my FWH tried that crapola. They actually had been friends before the A. But too bad for him, he lost a friend when he had an A with her.

I pointed out that she was NOT his friend, because a real friend would not help him ruin his marriage, destroy his very long friendship with his wife, endanger his job, and crush his child. Did he really want a friend who was so willing to toss away her husband and her special needs child?

And, she wasn't MY friend, in fact, she was my enemy. Did he want to be friends with someone who gave not a shit about me, in fact aimed to do me real harm?

If he wanted to be friends with a person like that, go right ahead. Just don't expect me to be married to you or to be your friend any more.

It took me a really long time to get to that point, btw. Didn't have SI....

And, he was more concerned about me not being his friend, I think. He did not have a better friend, and he knew it.

Be tough, Stronger4it. It's the right thing to do.

JustWow posted 7/28/2013 17:41 PM

If your WS likes his IC's boudaries and his friend's boundaries so much, let him marry one of them.

You are perfectly normal to want a monagomous husband. He has one choice, all in, or all out.

Seems maybe, the real problem here is you are not enacting consequences when he breaks your boundaries. Discussing, bargaining, defining the obvious, doesn't seem to help you one bit. He will likely continue this behavior because he has no incentive to change.

IF you are making NC an absolute requirement, what will you do the next time it is broken? You need to commit to that for YOU if it is really a boundary, otherwise it is a manipulation attempt, or bargaining, but it isn't really a deal breaker till you break the deal over it.

Stronger4it posted 7/28/2013 21:22 PM

Seems you're right justwow.

"Seems maybe, the real problem here is you are not enacting consequences when he breaks your boundaries. Discussing, bargaining, defining the obvious, doesn't seem to help you one bit. He will likely continue this behavior because he has no incentive to change."

Sure, I said "don't contact her, I need you to not contact her"
But I did not say what would happen if he did.

I should know better. I'm a Mom. Actions have consequences. Children behave better when they know what the consequences are.

Spouses I'm not so sure.

JustWow posted 7/28/2013 21:36 PM

Oh Stroger4it, it types out a lot easier than it is to live it, huh?

Trouble with laying it out as a real boundary is that YOU have to be ready to follow through, or nothing will change. Trouble with doing nothing, though, is nothing will likely change then, either,


[This message edited by JustWow at 9:37 PM, July 28th (Sunday)]

sadtoo posted 7/28/2013 22:33 PM

No. You're not being too tough.

Actually, you're not being tough enough.

Seems maybe, the real problem here is you are not enacting consequences when he breaks your boundaries. Discussing, bargaining, defining the obvious, doesn't seem to help you one bit. He will likely continue this behavior because he has no incentive to change

Justwow is absolutely right. Installing boundaries with no consequences when the boundaries are breached is worthless.

You need to tell him that until and unless he is completely committed to the marriage, neither are you. Don't explain, don't elaborate. Then YOU go N/C with him until he PROVES to you that he is committed to the marriage.

boredandtired posted 8/6/2013 08:33 AM

PLEASE tell me this is a joke?

Too harsh?! NOT AT ALL!!

My boyfriend cheated on me with someone he worked with, he left his job for a new one because that was one of the terms of trying again.

No way should he be having any contact with her at all, deleted & blocked off facebook, deleted number, completely gone from both your lives, no ifs, no buts!!

callmecrazy posted 8/6/2013 08:44 AM

Sounds like my WH. My IC said that he should simply be happy my boundaries give him the option to remain in the marriage (if he wants to be there as he says he does).

gonnabe2016 posted 8/6/2013 10:15 AM

It seems that he's using this 'trial separation' as a way (an excuse?) to continue on with his cheating.
He also seems to be 'morphing' the context/intent of what he hears into a shape that 'fits' into what *he* wants.

IMO, your guy is giving you absolutely NOTHING to work with.......

Stronger4it posted 8/22/2013 21:49 PM

Yes. He has used this time to resume his affair.
He also wants to come back because he misses his family. (we are great)
I told him we ain't getting anywhere with OW in the picture. He needs to end it. I can hardly believe I have to ask him. AGAIN!
Told him he should ignore her texts. "I couldn't do that - it would be rude!"
Break it off, by text. "It has to be in person" Riiiiiight. We all know how that's gonna end.
And that's it really. He cares more about her feelings than mine.
I know I should be more 180 with him. Hard core 180. He has a crazy work schedule. And I have a daughter who loves him. Don't want to mess with that. So we have contact. Pleasant times. Dinner's. Lunches. Coffees. Daughter is Ok. Thriving in the new normal. And that's the goal right?

Truth be told, it's not costing me much. I am behaving with grace and integrity. And strong enough to realize that I'm not strong enough to R by myself.

One more thing. He is soooo mad that I went to see a lawyer. Ya. Like outsourcing legal advice is so naughty. Should have though about that before he started outsourcing.

Thanks for letting me vent.

heathenchristian posted 8/22/2013 22:37 PM

WOW! Um, NC s/b a given. Before I even asked my WS to have NC, he put into motion changing his work shift and told her there would be NC. So far as I know they have had NC. I can only check our wireless bill for that though. They could be talking on his work landline.
Hopefully not though. When I ask if she's tried contacting him he says no that he told her no more and she understood.
WS needs to do whatever it is to help R if that's what they truly want.
I am still struggling with setting boundaries and asking for certain things to show he's really wanting to R too.
Hugs to you and prayers

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