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Am I Fooling Myself?

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RippedSoul posted 7/29/2013 09:31 AM

My WH does NOT get the magnitude of his actions because he's not truly remorseful. He's sorry that he hurt me, but he's not sorry that he had the A. He said, last night, that the A was a good time for him. ?????

So, no, he's not completely intent on reconciliation, I don't think. It's very complicated. He says he loves me, and, in his way, he probably does.

But he doesn't think we're a good match anymore and that we never really were because he married me when he was "so messed up." Now that he's only "messed up," he believes we could both find spouses who are better suited to who we are now. He mentioned some acquaintances who are divorced and happily remarried.

I told him that if I could forgive him for what he did, once, and still love him, then anything between us could work. I told him we have four good reasons for making our M work.

When I asked what he wanted to see me do differently, to become a better match for him, he said he didn't have the tools to have that discussion. When I suggested making an appt with our MC, he agreed. Later, though, he complained that I was trying to push him to change faster than he was willing. So I gave control of that back to him and told him to tell me when he was ready to make that appt.

So--especially to the BHs out there--is he just staying with me for good sex? And prepared meals? And a clean kitchen? And a companion? Or is he still in a fog? Plus, he's on anti-depressants, and, quite frankly, runs pretty "flat" when it comes to emotions. No real highs or lows.

As long as he's making progress, do I continue my part in the R? Or do I start looking for a lawyer?

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 1:17 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

unfound posted 7/29/2013 11:12 AM

...he's not sorry that he had the A.

...he doesn't think we're a good match anymore and that we never really were

...he believes we could both find spouses who are better suited to who we are now.

... he said he didn't have the tools to have that discussion.
then guilts you into not going to mc right now where he can get those tools...

As long as he's making progress, do I continue my part in the R?

Is this progress?

R takes two. You can do your part in the R till the cows come home, but until he starts doing his part, it's not going to work...

Only he knows why he's staying with you. With the above statements though, I doubt the reason is healthy... for you.

Rebreather posted 7/29/2013 11:42 AM

Honestly? Yes, I think you are.

Reconciling takes an enormous amount of work. Changes must take place. Commitment, dedication, hard, brutal labor. Tears, anger, fear, comfort, safety, compassion.

He is showing you none of those things. He should be falling at your feet begging you to stay. You should NOT be trying to change yourself to accommodate him. I think you should look up the 180 on this site. Focus on yourself. Find your footing. Figure out what is healthy for you. Stop focusing on him.

For me, just his fondness for his AP this far out would be a deal breaker for me. Good luck to you in your journey.

sisoon posted 7/29/2013 15:01 PM

Ripped, I'm really sorry you're hurting so much. Unfortunately, in this sitch, you need to take care of yourself, physically, emotionally, financially, etc., but physical and emotional health are the first priorities. What are you doing to take care of yourself? (Drink water, eat healthy, exercise, sleep if you can, feel your feeling, with IC help if you want or need, etc.)

is he just staying with me for good sex? And prepared meals? And a clean kitchen? And a companion?

I don't know about the clean kitchen, but it sure sounds like sex, food, shelter, and companionship without giving anything in return are his goals. This is what's called 'cake eating' in the infidelity arena - he gets what he wants without major consequences.

You talk about progress. What progress is he making? Stuff that leads to R includes transparency (he informs you who he's with and what he's doing at virtually all times, and you have access to his phone and email, etc.), honesty (answering questions when you ask, and answers to your satisfaction), NC (no contact with ap), IC (to change the thoughts and feelings that supported his infidelity), MC when you're ready.

Of those things, what's he doing? What do you want him to be doing?

Ripped, He didn't cheat because of any problem with you. He cheated because of his own problems.

He failed as a partner. He failed as a husband. As a result, He - not you - needs to change. The best thing you can do for him and for yourself is to figure out how you want him to change and lay out your requirements for R.

He can't read your mind, and he's really effed up himself.

If he can't/won't meet your requirements, why would you stick with him? If you want to stick because of fear or 'low self-esteem', those are your issues to solve - and you can solve them.

He says you were a good match when he was 'so messed up', but now you're not, because he's only 'messed up'.

Among other things, let's assume he remarries. And lets assume he advances to 'a little messed up'. Does that mean he'll need a 3rd W? And what happens when he isn't at all messed up?

He's in never-never land. You will do him a service if you confront this crap - gently, to be sure, but he won't change unless he's confronted - and you're best placed to do that.

RippedSoul posted 7/29/2013 18:30 PM

This is HORRIBLY long. Itís the 180 list and my questions as I read it. I donít know how to make the boxes in the text, so hopefully, the 180 stuff will stay bold. Any clarity you could give would be appreciated.

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

Weíre past that stage, I think. I begged back in Dec/Jan. Since then, since he told me on a tournament trip with one of our children back in February that he really did love me and felt ďin loveĒ with me again, weíve both just been trying to make things work.

No frequent phone calls.

Only when I need to actually speak with him about something relating to our family. I do send loving text messages when heís out of town. I usually respond to his, but I initiate, too. Are you saying not to do that?

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Havenít felt a need to do this.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

I donít (I did back in Dec/Jan) anymore. I do join him mid-way through a television baseball/soccer game or ask if heíd like to watch a movie with me/us.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Seems counter-productive at this point. What kind of discussion about the future? Future of the marriage? Future like what weíre going to do at Christmas? Future of how we get our daughter to college in a few weeks?

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

No one knows.

Don't ask for reassurances. Don't buy or give gifts.

I told him last night, in a discussion my IC encouraged me to have with him, that I wanted gifts. He bought gifts for her; I want gifts for me.

Don't schedule dates together.

Weíre going to a wedding this weekend. Should I cancel? A best friend is coming from out-of-state for it. It seems petty to back out at this point. And what if HE schedules dates? A couple nights ago, I overheard him telling one of our boys that heíd help him when he got home. First, he and I needed to do an errand. Then he ďkidnappedĒ me and we went and bought ice cream. For me, that initiation on his part was positive. Do I want to halt that?

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

He tells me all the time that he loves me. He texts me. He e-mails me. He calls me. Even when heís not being sexual, heís very affectionate. He kisses me and holds my hand and puts his arm around me. For us, this is progress. I didnít ask for it, but since the February trip, he has done these loving things more and more.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

My life as the mother of four children is very busy. I do what Iíve always done. I go to work and church and talk to friends and volunteer, etc.

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

I have beenóon the surfaceósince about the end of January. Once he confessed and he recommitted to me/our family, I knew we werenít in the clear, but I felt better just knowing my radar had not been wrong. Today, however, Iíve been sad. My perceptive daughter, as soon as I walked upstairs from being gone all day, saw me and asked what was wrong. I just said I had a lot on my mind. Heís gone on a business trip for 3 days, so . . .

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

Have addressed this. I have. My life is the kind where it canít be avoided.

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

Again, I thought we were past this. At this point, I would feel like I was pouting or sulking.

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

I do ask who heís e-mailing or why he chuckles at a particular text or some such thing. I could stop that. I probably should stop that.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

This is hard, now, because I begged himóback in Januaryóto tell me the truth and told him Iíd already forgiven him (because I thought the prostitutes and the escorts were just a freak , act-out for him and didnít know about the affair).

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

I stand up for myself. I ask him for help with certain chores heíd prefer not to do but he has, 95 percent of the time, said yes. He snapped at me for the first time in a while last week, several days after dropping the doseage on his anti-anxiety meds. I didnít react (Iíd have cried if I said anything); I just stayed quiet to compose myself. He moderated his voice and then, later that evening, told me heíd taken the fast-acting anti-anxiety meds the doc had given him for help in those kinds of situations.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

Truthfully, I donít know what he doesnít see in me. Most people like me. I have lots of friends (male and female). Iím beautiful (according to him and others), Iím thin, Iím intelligent, I speak multiple languages, Iím not particularly witty but I have a good sense of humor, Iím a good parent, I honor my vows and my commitments, Iím honest, Iím fit, Iím a decent cook and housekeeper, I'm an enthusiastic bed partner.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

What if itís assigned by my IC? Iíd told her it hurt my feelings when he let big occasions pass without cards/gifts. I wanted him to get there on his own, organically, but she said he needed to be told.

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

I was teary last night, but pretty composed. I heard things I didnít want to hear and did alright. I donít swear (ever). I donít scream. And I didnít lose my temper. I call his mistress Jezebel (because her name is so similar to mine I refuse to use it); he doesnít like that, I donít think, although heís said nothing.

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Iím just myself.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

He tells me how he feels; I tell him how I feel.

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

What he hasnít said directly, but what I think he thinks is that heís wounded me too much and too unfairly for us to move forward. We both belong to and have grown up in a religion that preaches absolute marital fidelity. If our ecclesiastical leader knew of his actions, heíd be excommunicated. He professes himselfósince he tangled himself up with heróan atheist (although she isnít) and our faith preaches that weíll be together eternally. So I think he feels guilty about that. Our daughter will barely speak to him because of his ďapostasy.Ē His sons donít know. He goes to a family church meeting with us but none of the others. After prayers, he no longer says amen; he says thanks (to whomever said the prayer). So while Iíd love for my husband to believe as I believe, I think that that sorting is best left to God. If thereís no God, then thereís no problem. If there is, well, Heís the judge.

Last night, he said that I donít laugh at his jokes anymoreóthat I canít tell when heís joking. I told himóand he understoodóthat it was maybe because of the dynamics in our relationship, that it was because I often needed to defend myself/others from his humor, that I was always afraid of making mistakes. He knows heís emotionally abused me. He has gotten much better in the last five years or soówhich is why he says heís not ďsoĒ messed up any more and only plain olí messed up. Heís been wonderful since February.

He knows the porn viewing wounds me deeply. He knows it makes me feel worthless and ugly and undesirable. So when heís honest about the use, it hurts me. He says itís about him, not about me. My mind knows that, but my heart still aches. Iíve learned that heíll always be a SA and that heíll always fight it. He thinks I donít accept that. I do. He thinks I love a man who looks like him but who isnít him. He thinks I fell in love with the faÁade he showed when datingónot the real him. Well, I did, but Iíve grown to love the real him (just not all the behaviors that go with him).

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Again, seems counter-productive. Iíve generally said nothingótoo many people around for me to speak out. When I left the get-together yesterday while he was telling his story, I just quietly got up and walked out. No one knew. I texted him that I was walking home. Thatís all. Should I have sat there and pretended it didnít hurt?

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

I try. Iíve not eaten today because Iím too bothered to eat, but I sleep and exercise and laugh. My life is so intertwined (probably like most) that itís hard to control any of it. I control what I can. Wives of addicts are usually good at that, right? Or so my IC says. Iíve actually, paradoxically, been trying to let go and not control so tightly all that goes on within the walls of my home. Heóand our childrenóhave learned that I wonít always bail them out. They goofed; they need to fix it.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Donít think Iíll ever, EVER, be confident again. People believe Iím strong, though. My therapist says Iím getting stronger. And I have a soft voice. ☺

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