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Last spring I asked WW if we could talk more about the A. We were doing ok up to that point. She accused me of wanting to make her grovel. This response caught me off guard, hurt me and set back any progress we had made.

Then one day I was home alone and saw her laptop. I don't suspect her or anything...then again I don't trust her. So I turned on the laptop and began snooping.

No evidence of an A.

I did find some messages from shortly after she accused me of wanting her to grovel.

Most of the advice came from men. All admitted to being WHs. Some were mad hatters. One WW, also a mad hatter, responded to her questions (I could not find any messages in the outboxes).

They all said that the BS should be over it in a very short time. One man told her it sounded as if I was waiting until the kids turn 18 to file for divorce (he said his ex did that). One WH stated that his mutable As were because he was young and stupid.

All but one of the "helpers" are from a political forum(s) she visits.

Just venting. I'm working out of town and thinking too much. I really don't know why I'm posting...guess I want to get it out...

that advise sounds pretty self serving.
did they account for multiple affairs? does the time multiply, reset or grow exponentially?

anyway, its clear that your WW is still trying to justify and minimize.

what does that mean for you?

what does it mean?

A very good question that I have been asking myself a lot these last few months.

I am in it for the long haul. There is no way I can give up being involved daily with my kids. I don't want to give up on her.

I want her to realize this is real life. Not a TV program where a problem is resolved at the end of the program.

I just don't know.

Twice after the "grovel" incident I brought up talking about the A. Her face went blank...like she had detached from the world.

Based upon comments she has made I have realized that she does not get it.

I usually don't reply to venting, but ...

Have you considered printing out some of the FAQs in the Healing Library? Or asking her to read NOT "Just Friends"?

Have you done any MC, with someone experienced in helping couples deal with infidelity?

Do you have a bottom line - absolute requirements for R, with D as a consequence for not meeting the requirements? If she won't change when you request it, you may have to bring out the big guns (that is, 'Do this or else!')

I asked her to come to SI. She looked at it briefly. She said she was afraid of getting beat up on this forum. So she sought help from the politic forums she hangs out on.

I did buy How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. I have not finished it. So far it is dead on. I want her to read it.

No MC yet.

Bottom line? Not yet. I really don't see D as an option....

If she only looked at SI "briefly" then she really has no clue what this site is about. Did she not see the Wayward forum on the main page? Or did she just look in JFO and see the gazillion vents (which is perfectly understandable, considering) and decided she'd get flamed?

I know you said D wasn't an option but if she continues to not "get it" then it may be your only option to save your sanity. Remember, your kids are learning what is acceptable in a M from your example. Do you want them to think this dynamic is what a healthy M looks like? Some Ms don't survive this shitstorm and if yours doesn't it's NOT a reflection on you. If it doesn't survive it's because your WW didn't (refused to?) do the work necessary. You can't MAKE her commit to it.

As for her blank expression when you bring up the A, that screams out to me that she wants it all to go away and why don't you just get over it already? She needs to get it through her skull that a large part of your healing depends on you getting the answers you need. You can't get those answers if she refuses to talk.

As for the "advice" she got on those political (?!?!?) forums, well, they'te idiots. Probably (most likely) unremorseful, still gaslighting their BS, blameshifting and minimizing.

Your WW is either unwilling or unable to commit to R and help you heal so you need to start thinking of yourself and your kids first. You can't fix her. She has to do that herself and she has to *want* to.

You say that you're in in for the long haul and that D isn't an option.

So.....my advice to you is to stop checking her laptop and her email and maintain a very superficial relationship with your WW that consists of being all touchy-feely nice and doesn't delve into the emotional realm.

It takes 2 people to make a marriage work and water is always going to find its own level. Obviously your level of marriage 'water' doesn't match up with hers....so you're going to have to drain your marriage 'level' to match hers.

But while you're doing that.....look at your kids and know that they are learning about relationships from you and your WW. Is the 'level of water' in your marriage the one that you want your kids to strive for?

She's going to get beat up by the truth no matter where she finds it. If she is going to use other people to hide from it then you need to decide how long you can endure that. Lay out your boundaries for yourself and look at them as a personal plan rather than a relationship consequence.

We need to observe the actions of the cheater to get an overall picture of their heart. So I look at your WW and where she's getting her counsel. She's turning to people who have no training in counseling, who do not know her or you, who are not unbiased or neutral. That's where she's chosen to turn for support and guidance. That tells me something about your WW. What does it tell YOU about your WW?